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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/19/2004 5:31:22 PM EST
I am in the Air Force. We are never issued weapons unless we're deployed, or at the firing range. When we do get a weapon it's the M16A2, and for us officers usually just an M9. Currently, only special forces have M4s, and security forces will be the next to get those.

My question is:
Are you allowed to keep and maintain possession of your government issued weapon at home? How is it that you guys outfit your M4s with so much gear (SIRs, ACOGs, aimpoints, tactical lights etc.)? Does your unit pay for it or do you buy and mount it yourself?

I have never seen anyone in the AF with any kind of optic, light etc. on an M16A2. I understand we don't see as much action as the Army and Marines, but it seems kind of rediculous that we are forced to have a basic M16 with nothing but iron sights. Especially considering we're becoming more and more involved with missions supporting and working with the Army. I personally have friends who have been doing convoy duties and some who have been going outside the wire frequently in Iraq.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:34:03 PM EST
I'm not in the AF but my younger brother is and is issued a Colt M4 with all kinds of high speed shit. He's a TACP (Tacitical Air Control Party) assigned to the US Army.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:38:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 5:40:21 PM EST by KNEESINTHEBREEZE]
Government weapons are kept in a unit Arms Room. It is against regulations to even transport government weapons in a personal vehicle. Ancillary equipment such as optics, magazines, lights, etc. may be signed out by a soldier and be kept by them in certain cases. Some units issue optics such as ACOGS, but if you are not issued an optic, you may purchase certain optics on your own, and it's on your own dime unless you can convince the CO, S-1, etc. that it is a needed tool and they will buy them. On a side note - what Special Forces in the Air Force are you referring to????
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:39:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:
I'm not in the AF but my younger brother is and is issued a Colt M4 with all kinds of high speed shit. He's a TACP (Tacitical Air Control Party) assigned to the US Army.



TACP, combat controllers, PJs = Special Forces
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 5:46:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By bennyjammin:

Originally Posted By gotm4:
I'm not in the AF but my younger brother is and is issued a Colt M4 with all kinds of high speed shit. He's a TACP (Tacitical Air Control Party) assigned to the US Army.



TACP, combat controllers, PJs = Special Forces



Check it out TACPs description is here www.romad.com
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:00:23 PM EST
All of our equipment and weapon accessories were issued, optics etc but no one said anything in a combat zone if you had your own accessories such as slings,flashlights,knives,scopes ,holsters,packs etc, heck i wore my department issued body armor under my interceptor until we were issued plates plus i brought my own extended beretta mags also but most troops just take what you give them,i 've found that most soldiers who are into guns and gear bought extra stuff prior to deploying while the majority took the attitude if uncle sam did'nt issue it they won't buy it,and of course it also boils down to what you can afford, me personally if it gives me an edge one way or the other i'll spend the extra cheese, just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:00:24 PM EST

it seems kind of rediculous that we are forced to have a basic M16 with nothing but iron sights.


You would be surprised at what a trained rifleman can do with "nothing but iron sights". And I'm not talking at the target range only, either.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:29:09 AM EST
What you see on the base(peacetime/traing) vs. a combat zone is difffernt. There are a lot of regs that have to be followed, when in a CZ most go out the window. I know as a flyer the M9 "sometimes" gets replaced with a personal weapon-nobody says shit.

I havent been to a army base in a while, but I would guess you wouldn't see that stuff unless is was a special unit carring it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:08:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 6:34:01 AM EST by AlaskaJohn]
Here is a picture of a ROMAD in Iraq. He appears to be carrying an M4 w/M68 CCO.
edited to add link: TACP

http://homepage.mac.com/mshadwick/imgs/romad.jpg
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:11:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By gotm4:

Originally Posted By bennyjammin:

Originally Posted By gotm4:
I'm not in the AF but my younger brother is and is issued a Colt M4 with all kinds of high speed shit. He's a TACP (Tacitical Air Control Party) assigned to the US Army.



TACP, combat controllers, PJs = Special Forces



Check it out TACPs description is here www.romad.com



Great read!
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:59:22 PM EST
Benny,

before the mid-to-late '90's the only units to have M4/CAR-15s were specop units. Soldiers in the big army carried M16A2s. The issued optics are great and make target acquisition/shooting easier, but my big fear is that we'll get so wrapped up with optics that we'll forget how to use iron sights effectively.

Mike
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:46:17 PM EST
I'm in the sandbox right now- in an infantry battalion-our regular ground pounders have m4's with eotech,pac4's,surefire lights and vertical foregrips/knight rail systems.
the headquarters element has basic m16a4's a bunch of the troops have wheeled and dealed for various goodies to bolt on rifles, and some have purchased acessories. so it is a mix of gov't issued and individually procured.
myself I am issued both the m9 and an m16a4 and are satisifed with the basic issue,although the full length rifle iis tough to manuever while in a vehicle which is where we spend most of our time.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:19:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By bennyjammin:
...it seems kind of rediculous that we are forced to have a basic M16 with nothing but iron sights.


Yeh, but you guys get some pretty cool airplanes!
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:58:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By bennyjammin:
I am in the Air Force. We are never issued weapons unless we're deployed, or at the firing range. When we do get a weapon it's the M16A2, and for us officers usually just an M9. Currently, only special forces have M4s, and security forces will be the next to get those.

My question is:
Are you allowed to keep and maintain possession of your government issued weapon at home? How is it that you guys outfit your M4s with so much gear (SIRs, ACOGs, aimpoints, tactical lights etc.)? Does your unit pay for it or do you buy and mount it yourself?

I have never seen anyone in the AF with any kind of optic, light etc. on an M16A2. I understand we don't see as much action as the Army and Marines, but it seems kind of rediculous that we are forced to have a basic M16 with nothing but iron sights. Especially considering we're becoming more and more involved with missions supporting and working with the Army. I personally have friends who have been doing convoy duties and some who have been going outside the wire frequently in Iraq.



What is your job?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:30:21 AM EST
I'm a Marine infantryman, I went to Afghanistan with BLT 1/6 this summer.

The only Marines that brought optics with them seemed to be Force Recon (Aimpoints) and battalion recon (a few ACOG's). We got a bunch of ACOG's, all kinds of them (regular ones, compacts, even a couple 5.5's) from the Army as a temp-loan. There was usually at least 1 ACOG per rifle squad.

And that's it. Everyone else had "just irons".

The Army was another story altogether, it seemed like all the Army guys in Kandahar had an M-4 with Aimpoint/ACOG and all sorts of shit hanging off it.

Nathan D Brown
USMC 1/6 SSP
Camp Lejeune, NC
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:17:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:18:10 PM EST by bennyjammin]


What is your job?



I'm a civil engineer.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:29:47 PM EST
Thanks for all the replies. Wasn't trying to knock iron sights. I think everyone should learn to shoot with them before graduating to an optic. But if there was no advantage with optics, they wouldn't be so prevalent.

I have a Bushmaster M4A3 on order. I'm going to deploy in January and I have a feeling my M16 will feel huge in comparison. But hey, at least it'll have burst!!!

By the way, does anyone know what goes on at the 3 week training sessions they have at Ft Benning prior to deployments?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:31:27 PM EST
I was overseas a short time ago, and we had a handfull of aimpoints issued out for our unit, about 3 per platoon, and that was it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:38:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By bennyjammin:
My question is:
Are you allowed to keep and maintain possession of your government issued weapon at home? How is it that you guys outfit your M4s with so much gear (SIRs, ACOGs, aimpoints, tactical lights etc.)? Does your unit pay for it or do you buy and mount it yourself?



I'm a grunt in the Army.

My issued M4 must stay in the unit arms room when I'm not using it. All the high speed gear on it... RAS, Eotech, PAQ4... is also stuff that was issued to me. I can buy other shit for it if I want.. like a vertical foregrip(some guys get this issued.. I think its on an 'as available' basis), 3 point sling, taclight(some guys get this issued too), etc.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:40:48 PM EST
Everything is issued and signed for. Maintained in the unit arms room. We can only draw when it is cleared to draw them,in other words we cant just go draw them out any time and go to the range and shoot. I wish I could though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:05:40 PM EST
Currently in Baghdad right now. Before deployement many of us bought our own because we were told no optics or rails would be issued. Of course when we got to Kuwait, what was sitting in boxes waiting for us...rails, optics, and other cool toys. Out a little money but it gives me an excuse to buy another M4gery when I get back. Originally I was issued an M4, but I was promoted and had to switch for a 16A2. So what did I do with my new found promotion? Grabbed the armorer and told him to beg and barter for the M5 rail system and order collapsible stocks for the M16s. My current weapon is an M16A2 with collapsible stock, M5 rail, M68(Aimpoint), vertical grip, and surefire 9 volt. Single point sling and end plate are enroute. All of the non-support guys now have this setup. We carry it with us all of the time. It sleeps next to my feet. Heavy, but it works for me. Armsroom keeps extra ammo and parts only.
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