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Posted: 9/13/2012 3:10:50 PM EDT
OK, new to the idea of building retro rifles, and I have a question. Looking at the NDS receivers, and trying to decide which one to use for a build, and comparing them to using an old SP1 carbine set I have. I can see that the NDS sets are very detailed and period correct for whatever XM series carbine I might build, but would also be incorrect by having NDS's info engraved on the side. My old Colt would also be incorrect by being a slabside with incorrect features for XM series carbines. Unless someone wanted to spend 10's of thousands to buy the "real McCoy", assuming one could be found, could you guys give me the scoop on who's receiver would be the most correct to use, and why?
  It would seem to me that a receiver that has engraved " blah blah blah" on the side (realizing that Fed law requires the manufacturers info to be there) would be as noticeable as my old Colt logo'd receivers incorrect features.  Enlighten the noob, please.
Link Posted: 9/13/2012 3:38:38 PM EDT
NDS leaves a large place for engraving, and many have gone that route. No, it doesn't say Colt, but it can look darn close. You can buy a Colt SP1 which will already BE retro, but the pivot pin sizes are larger than standard. Some guys go the hard route and do an 80% lower themselves, which is probably the closest to 'real' but more work than I want to get into. I intend to have my XM16E1 lower engraved at some point and the fact that NDS is on it is fine with me - it stops it from being confused with the real thing after I'm dead and gone, which would not be right. (Lack of a sear pin would also be a giveaway, but you can have one engraved or stamped as well). Let us know what your plans are, and we'll help anyway we can. Welcome to the forum!
Link Posted: 9/13/2012 4:22:19 PM EDT
I do my builds with custom marked and reprofiled 80% lowers. If youre not into rolling your own, NDS is the way to go. Here's my GM Hydramatic M16A1 build, with braceman custom lower. (still can't help but show it off)

Link Posted: 9/13/2012 6:23:14 PM EDT
Quoted:
I do my builds with custom marked and reprofiled 80% lowers. If youre not into rolling your own, NDS is the way to go. Here's my GM Hydramatic M16A1 build, with braceman custom lower. (still can't help but show it off)

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/34F634A0-7500-4E90-B5F0-285BBFE019B5-1389-0000013AFD0632F3.jpg


And you SHOULD be proud of that. Truly outstanding!

Link Posted: 9/13/2012 7:18:30 PM EDT
Quoted:
I do my builds with custom marked and reprofiled 80% lowers. If youre not into rolling your own, NDS is the way to go. Here's my GM Hydramatic M16A1 build, with braceman custom lower. (still can't help but show it off)



Nice MrM1A1!
Who did the anodizing one that?


Link Posted: 9/13/2012 8:26:31 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I do my builds with custom marked and reprofiled 80% lowers. If youre not into rolling your own, NDS is the way to go. Here's my GM Hydramatic M16A1 build, with braceman custom lower. (still can't help but show it off)



Nice MrM1A1!
Who did the anodizing one that?




Upper is original finish. Lower was done by Victor at US Anodizing.

Both were originally black, or very dark grey. Many GM uppers and lowers were dyed improperly during the anodizing process, and the black wore off easily to the natural gold color. Victor replicated this "defective" dye process and I wore it down to match the wear on the upper.

I couldn't be happier with how it came out, Victor is rediculously good at what he does.
Link Posted: 9/13/2012 9:27:21 PM EDT
yeah, very nice retro you've done up. OK, when you say it's a braceman lower, do you mean that is who produces the 80 % lower, and you finished it?  If not that, where did you get the 80% lower?........I'm a little confused. I'm guessing that anyone that completes an 80%er is required to engrave cerain info on the receiver. (what all is required?)  I'm fairly sure that I could finish machine an 80%, as I am a toolmaker by trade and have a Bridgeport in my home shop, along with other machine shop equipement.
  My first thought when I came upon this "retro" forum was to use my sp1 carbine for parts. After reading some more I think I should probably leave it alone, as it's pretty pristine with orig. box and all, and just build one from scratch. At this point not sure if that means getting NDS receivers or not, or for that matter, even which early carbine clone I should do. Guess it mostly depends on parts availability.  A 607, 609, or 610 all look pretty interesting.


















































Link Posted: 9/13/2012 10:25:47 PM EDT
Quoted:I'm a little confused. I'm guessing that anyone that completes an 80%er is required to engrave cerain info on the receiver. (what all is required?)


No markings at all are required on a firearm built by a non-licensee for personal use.  ATF "strongly recommends" you at least put a serial number to aid in identification and recovery in case of loss or theft.

That's how MrM1A1 is able to get away with reproducing the Hydramatic marks, with no "NODAK SPUDS" marring the side.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 3:20:32 AM EDT
Quoted:
yeah, very nice retro you've done up. OK, when you say it's a braceman lower, do you mean that is who produces the 80 % lower, and you finished it?  If not that, where did you get the 80% lower?........I'm a little confused. I'm guessing that anyone that completes an 80%er is required to engrave cerain info on the receiver. (what all is required?)  I'm fairly sure that I could finish machine an 80%, as I am a toolmaker by trade and have a Bridgeport in my home shop, along with other machine shop equipement.
  My first thought when I came upon this "retro" forum was to use my sp1 carbine for parts. After reading some more I think I should probably leave it alone, as it's pretty pristine with orig. box and all, and just build one from scratch. At this point not sure if that means getting NDS receivers or not, or for that matter, even which early carbine clone I should do. Guess it mostly depends on parts availability.  A 607, 609, or 610 all look pretty interesting.


Yes, I agree - leave the SP1 carbine alone - they are getting collectable. FWIW, half the fun of this is finding and collecting all the right parts for a build. It took me years to find a pristine XM16E1 BCG in the condition I wanted - man, it's like Christmas but with a sense of accomplishment. The problem comes when you finish a build and begin another one...soon you are just filling the closet with good parts for the next build because they are a good deal, next thing you know they are shutting off the electric for non-payment. Be careful!
















































Link Posted: 9/14/2012 4:47:50 AM EDT
Braceman is our member who does a lot of people's 80% lowers.
The difference between a 80% and a nds really comes down to the engraving.
With a nds you are good to go out of the box, and their quality is top notch.
a 80%  will need more work, you will need to put a finish on and  mill out the fire control area.
This is something the law requires YOU to do as by law you are the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:09:55 AM EDT
Just want to add that…
Once Braceman re-profiles and engraves the lower, its still an 80% lower.
You personally need to bring it up to 100%.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 1:25:13 PM EDT
Yes, I agree - leave the SP1 carbine alone - they are getting collectable. FWIW, half the fun of this is finding and collecting all the right parts for a build. It took me years to find a pristine XM16E1 BCG in the condition I wanted - man, it's like Christmas but with a sense of accomplishment. The problem comes when you finish a build and begin another one...soon you are just filling the closet with good parts for the next build because they are a good deal, next thing you know they are shutting off the electric for non-payment. Be careful!  

^This. I'm "rebuilding" my first build to proper E1 specs using the NDS upper and lower. I had a CAR way back when, and am going to use the "leftover" parts as the basis for an XM177E2 with boywonder's help.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 2:30:06 PM EDT
I took the plunge and ordered 2 80% lowers. The wait begins, hopefully the 2-3 weeks that I was told.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 2:34:39 PM EDT
Quoted:
I took the plunge and ordered 2 80% lowers. The wait begins, hopefully the 2-3 weeks that I was told.


Wow, really dove into the deep end first eh? Good luck with the build, and let us know if there's anything we can do or help with.
Link Posted: 9/14/2012 4:11:05 PM EDT
Quoted:
I do my builds with custom marked and reprofiled 80% lowers. If youre not into rolling your own, NDS is the way to go. Here's my GM Hydramatic M16A1 build, with braceman custom lower. (still can't help but show it off)

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/34F634A0-7500-4E90-B5F0-285BBFE019B5-1389-0000013AFD0632F3.jpg



THAT is SOOOOOOOO sexy! OUTSTANDING!
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 6:09:34 PM EDT
I got home today from some traveling and had a box waiting. My 2 80%'ers. I've got a little more machining to do on the jig plates, and then I need to heat treat them, and then I'll do a little retro work. I'll be going to the Knob Creek machine gun shoot and military show and hopefully, I'll be able to pick up some parts for the build. The shoot is next weekend........12, 13 14.
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 8:15:35 PM EDT
Well on the way not once but twice.  Have fun at the Knob.  We don't have that kind of excitement around here unless you consider a ride by exciting.  Good luck on the builds.  I'm personally into how accurate they can be made shooting first then build correct.  I have to agree that the NDS on the side eliminates any counterfitting down the road with their products.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 5:00:26 AM EDT
Yeah, I'll want to add some detail that will make any build "detectable".  I'm not saying that I have the ability to produce a clone that would or could pass as an original, but I wouldn't want someone to be duped down the road. I would think that just by adding fake pin ends in blind holes for the autosear would be sufficient to alert anyone to authenticity of said receiver............or etched pin ends. What say the experts of Retro?
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 6:29:46 AM EDT
Stoner, i plan on being at the knob too, have fun.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 9:31:07 AM EDT
Quoted:
Yeah, I'll want to add some detail that will make any build "detectable".  I'm not saying that I have the ability to produce a clone that would or could pass as an original, but I wouldn't want someone to be duped down the road. I would think that just by adding fake pin ends in blind holes for the autosear would be sufficient to alert anyone to authenticity of said receiver............or etched pin ends. What say the experts of Retro?


This is one reason I favor engraved NDS lowers - simple, relatively cheap, but easily detectable. This is why NDS puts forge codes on their uppers.
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