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Posted: 7/22/2009 5:43:56 PM EST
I guess my rifle is borderline retro. I know its an A2 config but the lower has no mag fence. I called colt and checked the manufacture date and got 1985. Is this a rare variant lower ? The other AR15A2s Ive seen have no brass deflector and a mag fence.Some have A1 rear sights and A2 front grips. Can someone clear up what configuration I should have and If my lower matches my upper. The upper is marked C MP 1:7 Please dont get on me for putting an A2 in here. Just seems my rifle is older than most.

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/lafmedic1/051.jpg

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/lafmedic1/054.jpg
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 5:50:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2009 5:53:28 PM EST by Jusbo47]
a slickside A1 Upper, A1 grip and some triangle hanguards would look right at home on that lower of ya ask me.

But since it is a slabside and has the Colt A2 stamping I would just leave it alone.

Maybe somebody else with more knowledge might chime in.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 5:57:24 PM EST
Ive been thinking about getting an SP1 upper and doing like you said. Would look pretty close. I like the older rear sights anyways. Just I find it odd that I have a slick side A2 marked lower
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:00:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2009 6:02:39 PM EST by ranchhand]
It's original but not that rare. There were lots of slickside A2 lowers in the mid 80s. Your rifle is essentially a 6550 w/o the Govt Model marking
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:14:43 PM EST
Thanks guys. I guess I should leave it as is. Im going to probably part with the scope to get a mauser to add to my collection. The scope is also a Colt marked and not a fake from what I have gathered from the sites info. I guess Colt made some mix masters just like chevy does mid year.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:21:01 PM EST
I would leave it as is, & keep the scope.

I take that back, I would get an original two piece pivot screw to put in place of the one in it now.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:25:04 PM EST
If your talking about the front screw in the reciever forgive my lack of better terms it is two peice and the right side is more of a nut type sleeve that adjusts the tightness of the upper and lower.The scope is clear and bright but I cant get it to hold a zero . I shoot better with the irons. It wont kill me to hold on to the scope and I like the way it looks with bayo and my 20 round colt mags. Ive got one mag that came with the rifle with a bright steel follower instead of plastic.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:25:38 PM EST
I vote for leave it as is.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:31:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
If your talking about the front screw in the reciever forgive my lack of better terms it is two peice and the right side is more of a nut type sleeve that adjusts the tightness of the upper and lower.


That's the one.

Here is an original one.
Picture borrowed from 45FMJoe.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:44:38 PM EST
He has a large hole lower with a small hole upper. It didn't come from Colt that way. The pin in there adapts the small hole upper to the large hole lower. He can't put the original Colt 2 piece screw in, it won't work. He has two different Colt rifles mated. I'm half asleep, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:48:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2009 6:50:33 PM EST by TexSquirrel]
Interesting that lafmedic1's milled selector stops look round instead of oval like 45FMJoe's.
His appears to be not just a differently stamped lower like I used to think the slickside A2s were.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 8:36:17 PM EST
More pics. No you guys see why Im so confused about the rifle. Its possible this was a police rifle as ACC with some numbers were on the mag well but refinished over.

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/lafmedic1/052.jpg

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/lafmedic1/053.jpg
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 1:32:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2009 1:34:56 AM EST by shamayim]
Originally Posted By oldman1:
He has a large hole lower with a small hole upper. It didn't come from Colt that way. The pin in there adapts the small hole upper to the large hole lower. He can't put the original Colt 2 piece screw in, it won't work. He has two different Colt rifles mated. I'm half asleep, so correct me if I'm wrong.


Actually, it might have come from Colt that way. There was a brief time when Colt had no more large hole uppers but some large hole lowers left over. However, the adapter pin on the subject rifle does not look like the type Colt used back then.

I doubt that you'll ever be able t esatblish for sure whether the thing was done at the factory or sfterwards.

Link Posted: 7/24/2009 9:17:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By shamayim:
Originally Posted By oldman1:
He has a large hole lower with a small hole upper. It didn't come from Colt that way. The pin in there adapts the small hole upper to the large hole lower. He can't put the original Colt 2 piece screw in, it won't work. He has two different Colt rifles mated. I'm half asleep, so correct me if I'm wrong.


Actually, it might have come from Colt that way. There was a brief time when Colt had no more large hole uppers but some large hole lowers left over. However, the adapter pin on the subject rifle does not look like the type Colt used back then.

I doubt that you'll ever be able t establish for sure whether the thing was done at the factory or afterwards.



Sorry, Colt NEVER used the aftermarket adapters to put small hole uppers on large hole lowers. When they made the transition to small hole uppers and lowers it was done simultaneously. It was also done well after the mid 1980's when this rifle would have been produced. I can't tell by the photos above but the upper appears to have a keyhole forge code, one that would not have been used in the 1980's so the upper pictured would not have even existed when this rifle was made.

When Colt first introduced the AR15A2 Sporter II they came with all A2 furniture, an A2 government weight barrel with 1/7 twist, and a SLICKSIDE upper. The first upgrade Colt made was the addition of the forward assist. The button was a large round button that was cut flat on the interior. The next modification they made was the addition of the brass deflector.

Below is a photo of a factory AR15A2 Sporter II as it would have come from the factory in the mid 1980's.




It was the late 1980's, possibly 1988 or 1989 that Colt finally started using the large hole A2 uppers on the Sporter II. ALL of the uppers that had large front pivot pin holes had CM forge codes. Later forge codes were C MB.



At some point in the 1990's Colt transitioned to the A2 lowers but for some reason retained the large pivot pin for a short time.



It was around 1994 when Colt started using small hole uppers and lowers. However, they still did not use a captive pin as do M16's and all aftermarket AR15's. They instead chose to retain a proprietary pin similar to the SP1. It had a .250 pin that had no slot for the detent and it was threaded on the opposite end to accept a screw.



Colt finally transitioned to the captive push pin around the time that the company was renamed Colt's Defense.
Link Posted: 7/24/2009 1:13:11 PM EST
Awesome help guys. So I guess I have two merged colts . I might have to change this to an SP 1 as a project .
Link Posted: 7/24/2009 2:43:47 PM EST
Why are the selector stops milled?
Link Posted: 7/24/2009 3:03:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By Heatnbeat:
Why are the selector stops milled?


Because Colt is cool like that...From the SP1s all the way thru the current 6290 M4 civilian/ LE models, all colt ARs have had them that way.
Link Posted: 7/25/2009 8:44:21 AM EST
As stated above, Colt made AR-15A2's with A1 receivers.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:39:23 PM EST
New member here and you've just made my day.

I bought a Colt AR15A2 Sporter II in the early eighties. I thought it was the slickest gun ever until I realized my A2 wasn't really an A2; it lacked the forward assist and brass deflector. I just figured I was a rube that the gun shop owner saw coming. But it shot well so I kept it.
Fast forward a couple decades of it sitting in the gun safe (raising kids and all) and I was looking to sell it. But first I wanted to find out what kind of b***ard it was. My research led me here.
My rifle is serial number 306xxx, just a bit before yours. It has the same slab sided lower but has a slick sided A1 upper. I'd read about Colt's mix 'n match in the eighties but have never seen a picture of one. This just proves I'm not crazy.
So now I have a project worth working on, not that I really wanted to sell it in the first place. I think I can find all the small parts and plastics to make a retro A1, except the barrel assembly.

Does anyone know of a source for an A1 barrel assembly or just the 20" 1/12 thin barrel.

Thanks for any input
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 11:58:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2009 12:00:11 PM EST by Mushinto]
Originally Posted By erdhund:
My rifle is serial number 306xxx, just a bit before yours. It has the same slab sided lower but has a slick sided A1 upper. …

Interesting thread.

My Sporter II, 321XXX, has no mag release fence, has a forward assist and has no brass deflector.

Does anyone know where one can find the D.O.B. for 80s ARs without calling Colt?

ML
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 12:07:20 PM EST
A little bit of info can be found HERE.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 9:32:10 PM EST
It took me a crap load of reading to figure this out and I still wasnt sure. until I talked to you guys Seems the eighties rifles are hard to find info on. Im glad you got some help of of this. I hope it doesnt vanish into the other posts.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 8:09:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 2:49:55 PM EST by ma96782]
A nice walk down memory lane.

I once had one of those ba$$^@*d A1/A2 style uppers on a COLT A2 marked lower (like 45Barvo's pic). I bought it sight unseen as a "full length AR-15 A2" from another police officer that needed the cash. Much later, I sold it to a collector who wanted it for his massive COLT Collection as a "Transition Model."

And........FWIW, from that period of COLT History.........I kept my two old green label boxed: flat sided Govt Model A2 Carbine (R6520) and flat sided AR-15 A2 H-Bar (R6600). Both had the full A2 upper features.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....for those interested in COLT AR-15 History read...........

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIID2b123.html

Take note of the section: "Beware the Ides of March" Yup.........COLT was massively STUPID.

And, for model numbers..........

http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/

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