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Posted: 10/1/2005 3:58:07 PM EDT
AR
1. reliability= horrible
2.accuracy = great
3.cleaning = horribly time consuming
4. LBE load out = good
5. durability = horrible
6. recoil =decent

yet most seem to choose them under the harshest conditions

AK
1. reliablity=Great
2. accuracy =fair to good dependign on calibur and manufacturer
3. cleaning = easy, but doesnt have to have it
4. LBE load out = Fair depending on calibur
5. Durability= excellent
6. recoil = heavy to fair 762-heavy 5.45 -non exsistant

hmmmmm, yet all couch commandos and private contractor still flock to AR's this might be do to the fact that people still think that AK cant be loaded down with gagets. I dont see the point in putting gagets on a gun that will fail to fire after a thousnad rounds without cleaning or under sand or temp conditions
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:04:09 PM EDT
Dude, go home. Obviously you don't know shit.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:06:01 PM EDT
typical response of an AR user
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:06:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:08:31 PM EDT by HELOBRAVO]

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Dude, go home. Obviously you don't know shit.




I thought it was just me as I was reading that crap...."typical AR owner".....(post number 11,
I would have never figured).
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:12:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
typical response of an AR user



Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:12:10 PM EDT

Typical post of those who can't pony up enough cash for anything nicer than a Hesse AR:


Originally Posted By Arsenal:
AR
1. reliability= horrible
2.accuracy = great
3.cleaning = horribly time consuming
4. LBE load out = good
5. durability = horrible
6. recoil =decent

yet most seem to choose them under the harshest conditions

AK
1. reliablity=Great
2. accuracy =fair to good dependign on calibur and manufacturer
3. cleaning = easy, but doesnt have to have it
4. LBE load out = Fair depending on calibur
5. Durability= excellent
6. recoil = heavy to fair 762-heavy 5.45 -non exsistant

hmmmmm, yet all couch commandos and private contractor still flock to AR's this might be do to the fact that people still think that AK cant be loaded down with gagets. I dont see the point in putting gagets on a gun that will fail to fire after a thousnad rounds without cleaning or under sand or temp conditions


Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:15:45 PM EDT
dude, i may say that AR are a horrible combat weapon.; never said i didnt own one or even several. I would never even own a hesse weapon. Another thing, i own one Knight carb and a Colt m4 SBR.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:17:44 PM EDT
Arsenal, I am an AK guy. I love AKs. And from this AK owner I just wanted to say Go F_ck Yourself you stupid Troll. Why would you come over to the AR side just to start shit.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:17:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
dude, i may say that AR are a horrible combat weapon.; never said i didnt own one or even several. I would never even own a hesse weapon. Another thing, i own one Knight carb and a Colt m4 SBR.



Post a pic with them in your lap flipping us off and then I'll believe you.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:20:20 PM EDT by Stryfe]
You own a KAC and a Colt and you call the reliability horrible?

Have you considered reading the manuals and perhaps cleaning them?

Sounds like an operator problem.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:19:44 PM EDT
And how many AR's have you worn down?
The AK, just like your evaluation, STINKS!!!

The AK is the weapon of chice for arab terrorists that shoot from the hip, communist armies that got their asses kicked, and dorks that don't wanna pay for a real rifle.



Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:19:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:35:07 PM EDT by chewbacca]

Originally Posted By SIG_220:

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
dude, i may say that AR are a horrible combat weapon.; never said i didnt own one or even several. I would never even own a hesse weapon. Another thing, i own one Knight carb and a Colt m4 SBR.



Post a pic with them in your lap flipping us off and then I'll believe you.



+1 Exactly!

Oh yeah, AIRSOFT DOESN"T COUNT!!!

PS: I have both so here is my pic to you

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:21:24 PM EDT
god you guys are so harsh , just wanted to start a little ar vs ak fun. Even i will pony up when someone makes a true statement about an AK flaw. lighten up for christ sakes
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:22:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
dude, i may say that AR are a horrible combat weapon.; never said i didnt own one or even several. I would never even own a hesse weapon. Another thing, i own one Knight carb and a Colt m4 SBR.



Hmmm? So lets' see you own two of the most expensive ARs out there but will readily shit on their reputations of reliability, durability, and the cleaning process of an AR.



Yep you guys called this one right.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:24:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
god you guys are so harsh , just wanted to start a little ar vs ak fun. Even i will pony up when someone makes a true statement about an AK flaw. lighten up for christ sakes



Let me guess you just got an Arsenal and think it's the cats ass right?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:26:40 PM EDT
Yes they are good weapons given the ideal environment. However ,the desert is not one of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Urban environment north of the equator ;id say the AR is pretty decently reliable.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:28:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
god you guys are so harsh , just wanted to start a little ar vs ak fun. Even i will pony up when someone makes a true statement about an AK flaw. lighten up for christ sakes



You stick your ass in a forum dedicated to people who LOVE their AR rifles and you take a dump... you call that a little fun?



Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:28:16 PM EDT
Arsenal,

I agree 100% with your opinion.

Thing is. I don't own a AK.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:28:20 PM EDT
no thats the name the board op gave me when i emailed him my password and id didnt work :*
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:29:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:30:24 PM EDT by Cleis102]

Originally Posted By MADM16A1:
And how many AR's have you worn down?
The AK, just like your evaluation, STINKS!!!

The AK is the weapon of chice for arab terrorists that shoot from the hip, communist armies that got their asses kicked, and dorks that don't wanna pay for a real rifle.








Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:29:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
Yes they are good weapons given the ideal environment. However ,the desert is not one of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Urban environment north of the equator ;id say the AR is pretty decently reliable.



seem to be working fine for many soldiers in the desert. US, IDF, Aussies, just to name a few.

Some members of this board are soldiers currently over there, and will readily tell you that the M16 and M4s are working just fine.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:31:11 PM EDT
thanks man, you must have served time in the middle east or nam. Or did a burnout session at the range
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:33:18 PM EDT
yeah they work fine because they are being cleaned 5 or more times a day . You ever been jumped while cleaning your weapon? not fun
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:34:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
yeah they work fine because they are being cleaned 5 or more times a day . You ever been jumped while cleaning your weapon? not fun



Tell us what happened when you were.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:35:46 PM EDT
Dude your a loser. I am an ak owner and I think its a better gun. But I dont come to the ar side just to talk trash about thier guns. Your a loser and I wish you would lose your password. Someone ban his ass from the sight please
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:36:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
yeah they work fine because they are being cleaned 5 or more times a day



Five times a day, that'd be a heck of a lot of rounds!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:36:54 PM EDT
Let's make this very simple. IN MY HELO, I had a AK. , I don't give a shit what,,,,, and it fired. It wasn't ment for knocking someone out at 300 yrds, but I'f my ass was on the line, give me something that would SPRAY lead. I haven't heard to cents from any HELO fly boys. Lets just get the topic straight....
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:37:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
god you guys are so harsh , just wanted to start a little ar vs ak fun. Even i will pony up when someone makes a true statement about an AK flaw. lighten up for christ sakes



I have shotguns that are more accurate at 70 yards. THAT is a true statement of an AK flaw, now pony up biotch.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:37:31 PM EDT
Still waiting on your pics Arsenal...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:37:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
yeah they work fine because they are being cleaned 5 or more times a day . You ever been jumped while cleaning your weapon? not fun



Future prediction is this thread will be locked or Arsenal will be sent to "timeout"
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:38:22 PM EDT
i never had mine fail to fire, only because i spent time cleaning it constantly and with a condom over the muzzel most of the day. many did have problems . A buddy of mine had his shell get stuck in the chamber once in south america do to the humidity( that was a new one for me) .
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:39:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:40:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:41:05 PM EDT by Dusty_C]

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
i never had mine fail to fire, only because i spent time cleaning it constantly and with a condom over the muzzel most of the day. many did have problems . A buddy of mine had his shell get stuck in the chamber once in south america do to the humidity( that was a new one for me) .




Ok, if so far anyone has made it past the fact that your full of shit, you just said "hey look at me I'm a fuckwit"



Can I use your statement as a sigline?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:40:53 PM EDT
i time myself , this was never meant to get this heated.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:41:14 PM EDT
Its funny how thousands of U.S. soldiers trust their lives to their rifles. That should tell you something right their.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:41:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
i time myself , this was never meant to get this heated.



Ok clean_cut. Say hi to the other banned trolls on the way out the door.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:41:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:42:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
i time myself , this was never meant to get this heated.



Translation: I never thought you guys would get mad when I shit in your Corn Flakes.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:43:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:45:43 PM EDT by boltcatch]
I've owned both.

Durability -

A 20" issue weapon's (M16A2 or A4) lower will outlast the most durable AK lower (stamped), likely by a large margin. Rebarreling is much, much easier than the AR when you finally shoot the barrel out. The AR has much fewer parts to rust than the AK.

Reliability --

The AK will most likely shoot more rounds without cleaning without a malfunction, given that it is of good quality and the mags are good. However, it doesn't matter in a firefight that the AK can shoot 20k rounds without cleaning and the AR only 10k. (use whatever numbers you want, because whatever the number is, it's a shitload more than you'd ever shoot without cleaning)

Accuracy --

Don't even think of calling the accuracy of the AK "fair to good", when you're only calling the accuracy of the AR "great". AK sights suck ass, plain and simple, and you have very few options for decent optics (Kobra is likely the way to go, unless you want to put an Aimpoint over the gas tube)

Recoil -- If your AK kicks too much, slap a 74 brake on it. Duh.

Lastly, dont forget Ergonomics!
Mag changes! Safties! Foregrips, oh my!

All that being said, the 7.62x39 is my favorite caliber, period. I love that round. I like AK's, too, and I'd take one into combat if I had to. However, only hits count, and the AR makes more of them in less time and at longer ranges. I used to own an AK, now I own an AR(s). The end.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:43:35 PM EDT
I would assume that you could get all the shot gun shells you needed, just prier to you out going orders. I would venture to say, ;youre ass hasn't been in to many rice fields.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:43:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:43:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 5:01:12 PM EDT by SIG_220]

Originally Posted By Cleis102:

Originally Posted By MADM16A1:
And how many AR's have you worn down?
The AK, just like your evaluation, STINKS!!!

The AK is the weapon of chice for arab terrorists that shoot from the hip, communist armies that got their asses kicked, and dorks that don't wanna pay for a real rifle.








+1 on the . I think my Arsenal Sam-7 is a damn good rifle and will never part with it. That being said I have no desire for more than one AK unless I was to get a krink. I decided long ago that AR's are just a superior platform overall.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:44:09 PM EDT
Mommy must have left the computer on.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:45:26 PM EDT
Woo Hoo. I've just happen to have a full beer and a bowl of pop corn! I'm set.

Let me add a log to the fire.
AR = True Blue American made! As wholesome as grandma, apple pie and the girl next door.
AK = Commie made crap. Made to kill grandma and the girl next door. It's the enemy's weapon.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:47:04 PM EDT
I own 2 ARs. A Colt SBR upper on a MEGA lower and an Olympic Arms. After thousands of rounds I have never had one jam once. Of course, I properly maintain my weapons. My Olympic is used extensively around the hunting lease as a ranch rifle and sees lots of abuse, dirt, rain, etc. Never jams.

I don't know why people think that the AR is an unreliable weapon. As long as they are properly maintained they are great. Field maintaince is very easy. Probably takes about 2 minutes so its not really an issue. Also, they are deadly accurate. Both of my rifles shoot sub MOA given the proper ammo. Given relatively cheap ammo they shoot around MOA to about 1.5 MOA.

AKs may be able to take more abuse and still function but most are fairly inaccurate. Actually, anytime someone mentions the pros of AK reliablity is the only thing you hear about. They never mention price but I'm sure that is a big factor on why many people (and countries) have them instead of the more refined ARs and other such rifles.

I own an Arsenal AK and it is a fine weapon but in battle conditions I would take the AR any day. Properly maintained it is a reliable weapon and very versitile. You can use the same weapon for CQB and reliably taking out targets at 300+ yards.

Just my 2 cents.



Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:47:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:48:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:53:43 PM EDT by MisterPX]

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
AR
1. reliability= horrible
That's funny, I shot more than 9K rounds of Wolf 223 through my AR without any cleanings; rapid fired until the handguards melted off; and it still worked 100%.
2.accuracy = great
3.cleaning = horribly time consuming
I don't know what you call time consuming, so I'm not gonna delve further into this one.
4. LBE load out = good
5. durability = horrible
Rifle's been thrown, sunk, kicked, tossed, javelined, and it still works 100%
6. recoil =decent

yet most seem to choose them under the harshest conditions



I've abused my AR, and I know that it will work anytime that I will.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:50:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:53:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
typical response of an AR user



Dude, I'm a wood and iron guy myself, don't have an AR yet, but even I know AR's aren't terrible in the reliability department - you might not be able to ABUSE them like an AK but that doesn't make them non durable.

Hey let me guess = you also think you can make an AR full auto by filing down the firing pin and that the 5.56NATO was made for wounding, right?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:59:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 5:02:29 PM EDT by gks452]

Originally Posted By MisterPX:

Originally Posted By Arsenal:
AR
3.cleaning = horribly time consuming
I don't know what you call time consuming, so I'm not gonna delve further into this one.




Near as I can figure this relates to a detailed cleaning where you take everything apart and try to remove 99.99999% of the carbon. I've only done a 99% cleaning once or twice. I'm a lazy slob I guess. Usually run a couple patches down the bore, spray the BCG with break free and wipe it down, wipe down the inside of the receiver and call myself done. Takes maybe 5 minutes.

ETA: My beer is half gone! Where is the holy war? This is AR vs AK! You guys are acting like this is an old topic that has been beat to death.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:02:36 PM EDT
Ok ya'll SHUT UP, he's a troll and he's quit responding, stop giving him ammo and let the thread die.
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