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Posted: 8/27/2008 7:16:21 PM EST
Are there such things as preban magazines? I was chatting w/ a vendor at a funshow who was selling magazines. I mentioned all the Okay, etc magazines I have from the eighties and he offered to swap one for one for brand new ones. What gives?
Link Posted: 8/27/2008 7:48:42 PM EST
Some states still have ongoing bans that did not sunset.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 4:38:47 AM EST
All recently manufactured mags have a date on them so that's how you tell when they were made. Those "pre-ban" mags are worth more because the cities/states that have capacitiy limits (CA, NJ, NY, etc.) generally grandfathered mags that were made prior to the implementation of the ban.

You can sell them for a premium on the EE or gunbroker.

The guy at the gun show knows that.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 4:52:56 AM EST
Put an add up in the EE that you have 30 round pre-ban mags. They will sell like hot cakes to members like me in ban states. Just don't try to sell them for $50 a piece. Do a one for one trade. Your pre-ban for someone's post ban. Each pays thier own shipping. Everyone wins
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 5:09:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2008 5:11:26 AM EST by ShakenNotStirred]

Originally Posted By agentile:
Put an add up in the EE that you have 30 round pre-ban mags. They will sell like hot cakes to members like me in ban states. Just don't try to sell them for $50 a piece. Do a one for one trade. Your pre-ban for someone's post ban. Each pays thier own shipping. Everyone wins


I'm all for solidarity with fellow gun owners, but if someone chooses to live in a "Ban State" and they desire pre-ban magazines, then they should still be willing to pay a premium for their magazines. A one-for-one swap is not a fair trade of usefulness/utility.

I have some pre-bans in the EE, that I'm sure are being passed over because of others doing one-for-ones. However, mine are all still in the date coded wrappers (or box, in one case). I think it is the height of Marxist thought to assume that those with pre-bans should sell their mags for zero profit. Also, why the frack should the seller of the pre-bans pay for his own shipping?!? He's not the one benefiting the most from the transaction.


Hmmm . . . a used USGI mag for a new USGI mag? Ok, that's good, but a waste of my time and effort.

$14 for a pre-ban magazine that I wouldn't be able to own if it were bought new? PRICELESS!!!
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 5:44:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By agentile:
Put an add up in the EE that you have 30 round pre-ban mags. They will sell like hot cakes to members like me in ban states. Just don't try to sell them for $50 a piece. Do a one for one trade. Your pre-ban for someone's post ban. Each pays thier own shipping. Everyone wins


I'm all for solidarity with fellow gun owners, but if someone chooses to live in a "Ban State" and they desire pre-ban magazines, then they should still be willing to pay a premium for their magazines. A one-for-one swap is not a fair trade of usefulness/utility.

I have some pre-bans in the EE, that I'm sure are being passed over because of others doing one-for-ones. However, mine are all still in the date coded wrappers (or box, in one case). I think it is the height of Marxist thought to assume that those with pre-bans should sell their mags for zero profit. Also, why the frack should the seller of the pre-bans pay for his own shipping?!? He's not the one benefiting the most from the transaction.


Hmmm . . . a used USGI mag for a new USGI mag? Ok, that's good, but a waste of my time and effort.

$14 for a pre-ban magazine that I wouldn't be able to own if it were bought new? PRICELESS!!!


So if I offered to ship you a BRAND NEW P-MAG and you had a 15 year old beat up AR mag you think your getting screwed? What is shipping for a mag, 3 bucks? It is us guys in the ban states that are getting screwed. A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag. But we get screwed becasue it has to be made (dated) before 1994. I see brand new lowers for sale for $100. But because I live in a ban state I have to pay $650 for a used pre-ban lower. I would think that the ARFCOM community was one big family and be willing to help a brother out. If I lived in a free state I would do whatever I could to help another member.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 5:52:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Desk_Jockey:
AllMany recently manufactured mags have a date on them so that's how you tell when they were made.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 8:50:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By agentile:

So if I offered to ship you a BRAND NEW P-MAG and you had a 15 year old beat up AR mag you think your getting screwed?


Really, none of mine are that beat up. I have a lot that are new, like new, or in excellent condition. I'd be fine trading one in excellent (or poorer) condition for a new PMAG.

The comparison fails when someone has brand-new, sealed-in-wrapper, green follower mags and doesn't want to pay for the value that they convey.


It is us guys in the ban states that are getting screwed. A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag. But we get screwed becasue it has to be made (dated) before 1994. I see brand new lowers for sale for $100. But because I live in a ban state I have to pay $650 for a used pre-ban lower.


You've chosen (more or less) to live or remain there. I'm all about helping out, but I'm not about getting the short end of the stick to improve someone else's condition at my own expense (when their condition is self-imposed).

If I were to sell any of my pre-ban lowers, I would certainly want to get $650 for each one (as I paid a large premium for them back during the Federal Ban).
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 9:12:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By agentile:

So if I offered to ship you a BRAND NEW P-MAG and you had a 15 year old beat up AR mag you think your getting screwed?


Really, none of mine are that beat up. I have a lot that are new, like new, or in excellent condition. I'd be fine trading one in excellent (or poorer) condition for a new PMAG.

The comparison fails when someone has brand-new, sealed-in-wrapper, green follower mags and doesn't want to pay for the value that they convey.


It is us guys in the ban states that are getting screwed. A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag. But we get screwed becasue it has to be made (dated) before 1994. I see brand new lowers for sale for $100. But because I live in a ban state I have to pay $650 for a used pre-ban lower.


You've chosen (more or less) to live or remain there. I'm all about helping out, but I'm not about getting the short end of the stick to improve someone else's condition at my own expense (when their condition is self-imposed).

If I were to sell any of my pre-ban lowers, I would certainly want to get $650 for each one (as I paid a large premium for them back during the Federal Ban).


I understand where you are coming from (just noticed you live in CT.) But this is where my problem lies. Some guy who lives in a post ban state can go a buy a brand new lower from Spikes, Stag, Bushmaster etc, for $100. But becasue I (we) live in a ban state we have to buy lowers made prior to 1994 at an inflated price. Hell you can't even have a Colt lower that says AR-15 on it and they are made in CT! So what makes a brand new Spike/Stag/Bushmaster lower any different than a pre-ban lower? Put a upper on anyone of those lowers and it still fires. Now I could understand if the pre-ban had a feature on them that the new ones don't have (like sear blocks) but a lower is a lower as far as I am concerned. If I had 10 pre-ban Colt lowers sitting around I would be the first one to try and help out a guy in a ban state acheive his dream of owning an AR-15 and do a trade with him.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 2:12:37 PM EST
I am new to the world of AR's and to this awesome arfcom website. Just purchased my first AR type rifle (M4) at our Phoenix gun show a few weekends back. Gun rules here in AZ still have an old west flavor....if I am understanding things correctly, there is no reason for me to be looking for or wanting to purchase pre-ban mags. Is this correct? Someone more educated please advise. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 4:42:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By agentile:

But this is where my problem lies. Some guy who lives in a post ban state can go a buy a brand new lower from Spikes, Stag, Bushmaster etc, for $100.

Correct. They live in "Free States" (so to speak), where the market is able to freely regulate prices because of an open supply of new lowers (or magazines).

But becasue I (we) live in a ban state we have to buy lowers made prior to 1994 at an inflated price. Hell you can't even have a Colt lower that says AR-15 on it and they are made in CT! So what makes a brand new Spike/Stag/Bushmaster lower any different than a pre-ban lower?

There's a huge difference. The new lowers can't be bought by residents of "Ban States" . . . it's very simple. It's also why a Post-86 Dealer sample is cheaper than a Pre-86 Dealer Sample, which costs far less than a Transferrable MG. The difference in value is the difference in the legal status of the item. It's an artificially imposed value, and an example of government interference in the Free Market (not to mention an infringement of the Second Amendment) . . . but as a Free Market Libertarian type, I must believe that market forces will dictate the value of a restricted commodity.

Put a upper on anyone of those lowers and it still fires. Now I could understand if the pre-ban had a feature on them that the new ones don't have (like sear blocks) but a lower is a lower as far as I am concerned. If I had 10 pre-ban Colt lowers sitting around I would be the first one to try and help out a guy in a ban state acheive his dream of owning an AR-15 and do a trade with him.


You're certainly a philanthropist. I'm not opposed to helping others achieve their dreams, but I also want to be remunerated at full market value. I wouldn't sell a Transferrable M1 Thompson for $1600 any more than I would sell a pre-ban lower for $100, or a pre-ban magazine in like-new condition for the same as a PMAG.

Using your logic, if you were a C3 dealer with a post-sample MP5, you'd sell me a Transferrable MP5 for the same price as you paid for the post-sample, since you'd feel bad that I haven't been able to realize my wish to own a nifty toy?
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 4:43:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By dsoel1:
I am new to the world of AR's and to this awesome arfcom website. Just purchased my first AR type rifle (M4) at our Phoenix gun show a few weekends back. Gun rules here in AZ still have an old west flavor....if I am understanding things correctly, there is no reason for me to be looking for or wanting to purchase pre-ban mags. Is this correct? Someone more educated please advise. Thanks.


You live in a state with no magazine or "assault weapon" restrictions. Move out smartly and buy as much as you can afford of what you like.
Link Posted: 8/29/2008 3:56:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By agentile:

But this is where my problem lies. Some guy who lives in a post ban state can go a buy a brand new lower from Spikes, Stag, Bushmaster etc, for $100.

Correct. They live in "Free States" (so to speak), where the market is able to freely regulate prices because of an open supply of new lowers (or magazines).

But becasue I (we) live in a ban state we have to buy lowers made prior to 1994 at an inflated price. Hell you can't even have a Colt lower that says AR-15 on it and they are made in CT! So what makes a brand new Spike/Stag/Bushmaster lower any different than a pre-ban lower?

There's a huge difference. The new lowers can't be bought by residents of "Ban States" . . . it's very simple. It's also why a Post-86 Dealer sample is cheaper than a Pre-86 Dealer Sample, which costs far less than a Transferrable MG. The difference in value is the difference in the legal status of the item. It's an artificially imposed value, and an example of government interference in the Free Market (not to mention an infringement of the Second Amendment) . . . but as a Free Market Libertarian type, I must believe that market forces will dictate the value of a restricted commodity.

Put a upper on anyone of those lowers and it still fires. Now I could understand if the pre-ban had a feature on them that the new ones don't have (like sear blocks) but a lower is a lower as far as I am concerned. If I had 10 pre-ban Colt lowers sitting around I would be the first one to try and help out a guy in a ban state acheive his dream of owning an AR-15 and do a trade with him.


You're certainly a philanthropist. I'm not opposed to helping others achieve their dreams, but I also want to be remunerated at full market value. I wouldn't sell a Transferrable M1 Thompson for $1600 any more than I would sell a pre-ban lower for $100, or a pre-ban magazine in like-new condition for the same as a PMAG.

Using your logic, if you were a C3 dealer with a post-sample MP5, you'd sell me a Transferrable MP5 for the same price as you paid for the post-sample, since you'd feel bad that I haven't been able to realize my wish to own a nifty toy?


No machine guns are a totally different story. I am just saying a lower made by Spikes today is no different mechanically than a Colt lower made in 1994. But because the Government thought an Assault Weapon Ban would lower crime (which it didn't) people who live in ban states still have to suffer.
Link Posted: 8/29/2008 6:18:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By agentile:

No machine guns are a totally different story. I am just saying a lower made by Spikes today is no different
mechanically than a Colt lower made in 1994. But because the Government thought an Assault Weapon Ban would lower crime (which it didn't) people who live in ban states still have to suffer.


How are pre-ban lowers and transferrable MG's any different? Let's look at the similarities between pre-bans and transferrable MG's and between post-ban's and pre/post-samples.

Pre-Ban lowers compared to Transferrable MG's:
- both can be generally owned by the whole populace (though there remain restrictions on both, such as NJ and CA do not allow any new pre-bans in the state)
- both command a market driven premium price because the supply is artificially limited by government fiat (compared to the great demand)
- both are highly desired (see demand above)

Post-Bans compared to Pre/Post-Sample MG's:
- Can only be owned by certain individuals (Non-Ban State residents in on case or C3 dealers on the other)
- are much less expensive, because supply outweighs demand

Finally a Transferrable MG is usually mechanically identical to a Pre/Post-Sample MG, but because the Government thought an Assault Weapon Ban on Machine Guns would lower crime (which it didn't) people who live in ban states aren't C3 dealers still have to suffer.

Magazines are the same deal.
Link Posted: 8/29/2008 6:26:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2008 7:34:01 AM EST by agentile]

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By agentile:

No machine guns are a totally different story. I am just saying a lower made by Spikes today is no different
mechanically than a Colt lower made in 1994. But because the Government thought an Assault Weapon Ban would lower crime (which it didn't) people who live in ban states still have to suffer.


How are pre-ban lowers and transferrable MG's any different? Let's look at the similarities between pre-bans and transferrable MG's and between post-ban's and pre/post-samples.

Pre-Ban lowers compared to Transferrable MG's:
- both can be generally owned by the whole populace (though there remain restrictions on both, such as NJ and CA do not allow any new pre-bans in the state)
- both command a market driven premium price because the supply is artificially limited by government fiat (compared to the great demand)
- both are highly desired (see demand above)

Post-Bans compared to Pre/Post-Sample MG's:
- Can only be owned by certain individuals (Non-Ban State residents in on case or C3 dealers on the other)
- are much less expensive, because supply outweighs demand

Finally a Transferrable MG is usually mechanically identical to a Pre/Post-Sample MG, but because the Government thought an Assault Weapon Ban on Machine Guns would lower crime (which it didn't) people who live in ban states aren't C3 dealers still have to suffer.

Magazines are the same deal.


Apparently we don't see eye to eye. I am just saying it sucks that somebody in say AZ can buy a lower for $100 and put a flash suppressor on it, collapsible stock, bayonet lug, detachable magazine, etc. But if someone in a ban state wants the same they have to buy a pre-ban lower at $650. THE FEDERAL GOVT. lifted the ban, but the a-holes on Beacon Hill in MA decided to keep it. I would move it it wasn't for my work, family and the schools my kids go to.

I am done, I need some Tylenol
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 7:36:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By agentile:
Put an add up in the EE that you have 30 round pre-ban mags. They will sell like hot cakes to members like me in ban states. Just don't try to sell them for $50 a piece. Do a one for one trade. Your pre-ban for someone's post ban. Each pays thier own shipping. Everyone wins


I'm all for solidarity with fellow gun owners, but if someone chooses to live in a "Ban State" and they desire pre-ban magazines, then they should still be willing to pay a premium for their magazines. A one-for-one swap is not a fair trade of usefulness/utility.

I have some pre-bans in the EE, that I'm sure are being passed over because of others doing one-for-ones. However, mine are all still in the date coded wrappers (or box, in one case). I think it is the height of Marxist thought to assume that those with pre-bans should sell their mags for zero profit. Also, why the frack should the seller of the pre-bans pay for his own shipping?!? He's not the one benefiting the most from the transaction.


Hmmm . . . a used USGI mag for a new USGI mag? Ok, that's good, but a waste of my time and effort.

$14 for a pre-ban magazine that I wouldn't be able to own if it were bought new? PRICELESS!!!


Why would I pay a premium for you piece of shit magazine when I/We can get prebans for prices of new mags.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 8:11:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rich219:

Why would I pay a premium for you piece of shit magazine when I/We can get prebans for prices of new mags.


POS?

I'm only selling NIW/NIB stuff. By your erudite and civil tone, all can see who the POS is here.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 9:15:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2008 9:20:33 AM EST by Rich219]

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Rich219:

Why would I pay a premium for you piece of shit magazine when I/We can get prebans for prices of new mags.


POS?

I'm only selling NIW/NIB stuff. By your erudite and civil tone, all can see who the POS is here.


I didn't call you a POS, but after your direct insult I'm sure you are. Way too many people are looking to bone fellow gun owners in ban states by raping them on prices. A mag is worth $15 or so. You get people like you selling NIW prebans for $35-50 each. Once they are out of the wrapper they are just another used mag. Your right everyone can see who the POS is here. How are your NIW mags more valuable than a $15 preban mag?

I love it how everyone says " well it's your choice to live in ban state" etc. It shows how out of touch you are with reality. It's not as easy as getting up and moving because a state doesn't allow high cap mags.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 9:22:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rich219:

I didn't call you a POS


No, you just shit in this thread, and denigrated the quality of the goods that I am selling. That's a direct enough insult. Don't try and deflect the situation. You showed up and started the mud-slinging.


A mag is worth $15 or so. You get people like you selling NIW prebans for $35-50 each. Once they are out of the wrapper they are just another used mag. Your right everyone can see who the POS is here. How are your NIW mags more valuable than a $15 preban mag?


Read what I posted above comparing pre-ban items to transferrable MG's. Both are commodities who are artificially restricted in supply. Thus, the market will settle on a higher price than if the items were otherwise unrestricted.

If others want to sell their pre-ban mags for $15 and their pre-ban lowers for $100 . . . they are free to do so. That's called the free market. If I want a higher price, I am free to ask it and you don't have to pay it. See, the free market again. Just because I want a higher price for NIW that are proven to be pre-ban (ie, you have the most defensible legal claim that the mags you possess are pre-ban), doesn't make them "PIECES OF SHIT" as you so eloquently labeled them. If you don't want to get labeled, don't label other people (or their property).

NY (and MA) will never lift their mag bans w/o a SCOTUS ruling forcing them to (which will probably never happen). The supply of pre-ban mags (and lowers) will continue to dwindle. If you don't pay my price, someone else will.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 9:29:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Rich219:

I didn't call you a POS


No, you just shit in this thread, and denigrated the quality of the goods that I am selling. That's a direct enough insult. Don't try and deflect the situation. You showed up and started the mud-slinging.


A mag is worth $15 or so. You get people like you selling NIW prebans for $35-50 each. Once they are out of the wrapper they are just another used mag. Your right everyone can see who the POS is here. How are your NIW mags more valuable than a $15 preban mag?


Read what I posted above comparing pre-ban items to transferrable MG's. Both are commodities who are artificially restricted in supply. Thus, the market will settle on a higher price than if the items were otherwise unrestricted.

If others want to sell their pre-ban mags for $15 and their pre-ban lowers for $100 . . . they are free to do so. That's called the free market. If I want a higher price, I am free to ask it and you don't have to pay it. See, the free market again. Just because I want a higher price for NIW that are proven to be pre-ban (ie, you have the most defensible legal claim that the mags you possess are pre-ban), doesn't make them "PIECES OF SHIT" as you so eloquently labeled them. If you don't want to get labeled, don't label other people (or their property).

NY (and MA) will never lift their mag bans w/o a SCOTUS ruling forcing them to (which will probably never happen). The supply of pre-ban mags (and lowers) will continue to dwindle. If you don't pay my price, someone else will.


Your right you can charge whatever you'd like for your mags. At the end of the day my used 20yr old mags work just as well or maybe even better than your NIW mags and I can sleep well knowing I didn't have to pay some inflated price to make up for someone who paid way too much for their mags during the ban.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 10:52:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rich219:
At the end of the day my used 20yr old mags work just as well or maybe even better than your NIW mags

Doubtful.

and I can sleep well knowing I didn't have to pay some inflated price to make up for someone who paid way too much for their mags during the ban.


Sleep well in your error. The only magazine I paid a "premium" for during the ban was a Beta C-Mag that I then sold for more than I bought it for.

How is it that I keep attracting the best examples of NYS . . . ????
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 11:21:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Rich219:
At the end of the day my used 20yr old mags work just as well or maybe even better than your NIW mags

Doubtful.

and I can sleep well knowing I didn't have to pay some inflated price to make up for someone who paid way too much for their mags during the ban.


Sleep well in your error. The only magazine I paid a "premium" for during the ban was a Beta C-Mag that I then sold for more than I bought it for.

How is it that I keep attracting the best examples of NYS . . . ????



I don't know, maybe you have a way of just pissing people off?
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 3:13:58 PM EST
I have some pre-bans, I will trade mags to help some of you guys in the ban states.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 5:40:48 PM EST
some idiot here in PA at a permanant flea market type mall that is open on sat nights had some old military stuff and i seen 2 used 30rd mags in the case...1 with the green follower and the other with a black one. they were marked restricted law enforcment govt use only. so i asked how much for them thinking i would get them for less then 8 bucks....lol yeah right they wanted 15 each so i laughed and walked away. i didnt even look and see who made them. but they looked pretty used.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 6:43:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rich219:

I don't know, maybe you have a way of just pissing people off?


Look, you came into this thread (which had disagreement but was civil) and shit in it. Then, you went back and edited your first post (where you evidenced your uncouth behavior). Nobody asked you to come in and be the first one to level accusations, you stepped up and did it.

Man up to your transgression. You're the one with the talent at pissing people off.
Link Posted: 8/30/2008 6:51:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Rich219:

I don't know, maybe you have a way of just pissing people off?


Look, you came into this thread (which had disagreement but was civil) and shit in it. Then, you went back and edited your first post (where you evidenced your uncouth behavior). Nobody asked you to come in and be the first one to level accusations, you stepped up and did it.

Man up to your transgression. You're the one with the talent at pissing people off.




I didn't edit my original post.
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 4:30:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2008 4:34:05 PM EST by Charliebee]
Why shouldn't I be able to sell my preban Colt Sporter HBAR for more than I paid for it in 1999 or even for as much? Yes, I paid an inflated price compared to now but why should I take it in the shorts just so you can get a lower for $100 like I can get a stripped lower for now? Actually, I probably can't buy a current Colt for any less than I paid in 1999.
As for trading magazines, the owner of the pre-bans would end up getting screwed because the guys behind the lines couldn't have the magazines shipped to them and would probably be able to get the vendor to pay shipping to the free holder whereas I would for sure have to pay shipping on my goods. As some of the other posters have mentioned, why is it my responsibility to make sure you have what you want. Just because I too have BRD, doesn't mean I have to support your BRD.

"Currently we are offering $7 flat rate shipping. For all orders of 10 mags or more, shipping is free! "
p2 owned
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 5:37:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Charliebee:
Why shouldn't I be able to sell my preban Colt Sporter HBAR for more than I paid for it in 1999 or even for as much? Yes, I paid an inflated price compared to now but why should I take it in the shorts just so you can get a lower for $100 like I can get a stripped lower for now? Actually, I probably can't buy a current Colt for any less than I paid in 1999.
As for trading magazines, the owner of the pre-bans would end up getting screwed because the guys behind the lines couldn't have the magazines shipped to them and would probably be able to get the vendor to pay shipping to the free holder whereas I would for sure have to pay shipping on my goods. As some of the other posters have mentioned, why is it my responsibility to make sure you have what you want. Just because I too have BRD, doesn't mean I have to support your BRD.

"Currently we are offering $7 flat rate shipping. For all orders of 10 mags or more, shipping is free! "
p2 owned


A guy selling used prebans is getting screwed by getting brand new in the wrapper magazines? Explain this to me further. I'm going to go and grab some popcorn.
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 6:50:11 PM EST
oh, I see what you are saying - I'm getting brand new current manufacture mags for the cost of shipping my old crap to you. Sounds like a good deal for bofus unless there turns out to be some benefit to the pre-ban mags after the elections. Guess I better go see how many mags I want to empty.
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 7:58:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Charliebee:
oh, I see what you are saying - I'm getting brand new current manufacture mags for the cost of shipping my old crap to you. Sounds like a good deal for bofus unless there turns out to be some benefit to the pre-ban mags after the elections. Guess I better go see how many mags I want to empty.


Hopefully McCain will win and the rest of the country will be able to keep all the goodies. If Obama wins it doesn't matter what a preban/post ban is worth because they will all be illegal.
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 11:18:47 PM EST
why do those of you in free states who wish to charge exorbitant prices for pre-ban mags and lowers feel that its "your right" to do so? your rights are not infringed any more, but ours are. you should feel it as a civic responsibility to provide us with the same freedom for equal compensation. If you had a pre-ban lower that you bought BEFORE the ban, and i offered you a BRAND NEW lower, you'd have the gall to ask me for 400 more dollars to make it fair? i fail to see the fairness. the same goes for magazines. I just sold a few pre-ban magazines for roughly 13 dollars each, and i felt that was fair, since thats what new mags are going for anyway. i felt compelled to help a fellow new yorker, and didn't want to rape him.
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 3:59:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2008 3:59:27 AM EST by ShakenNotStirred]

Originally Posted By shiky:
why do those of you in free states who wish to charge exorbitant prices for pre-ban mags and lowers feel that its "your right" to do so? your rights are not infringed any more, but ours are. you should feel it as a civic responsibility to provide us with the same freedom for equal compensation. If you had a pre-ban lower that you bought BEFORE the ban, and i offered you a BRAND NEW lower, you'd have the gall to ask me for 400 more dollars to make it fair? i fail to see the fairness. the same goes for magazines. I just sold a few pre-ban magazines for roughly 13 dollars each, and i felt that was fair, since thats what new mags are going for anyway. i felt compelled to help a fellow new yorker, and didn't want to rape him.


Let me know when you want to sell me a transferrable M16 lower or M1 Thompson for about $3k, since you're such a humanitarian.
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 11:03:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By shiky:
why do those of you in free states who wish to charge exorbitant prices for pre-ban mags and lowers feel that its "your right" to do so? your rights are not infringed any more, but ours are. you should feel it as a civic responsibility to provide us with the same freedom for equal compensation. If you had a pre-ban lower that you bought BEFORE the ban, and i offered you a BRAND NEW lower, you'd have the gall to ask me for 400 more dollars to make it fair? i fail to see the fairness. the same goes for magazines. I just sold a few pre-ban magazines for roughly 13 dollars each, and i felt that was fair, since thats what new mags are going for anyway. i felt compelled to help a fellow new yorker, and didn't want to rape him.


For a site built on freedoms, I would think people would understand that exercising your rights does not have to be popular. Its someone's right to charge exorbitant prices because its their property and we live in a free market country. You are free not to buy it. I passed on many $3k AR's in the late 90's. You sold pre-bans for $13....new ones are ~ $10 all over the place (44Mag.com), so is a 30% mark-up not exorbitant? That being said, there are probably lots of people like me who have 10-20 lightly used Pre-ban magazines which I would consider trading, but what is there to motivate me to do so? While I may feel bad charging $50, I might consider trading 10 magazines for 12 new ones.........that's only a 20% mark up and we both end up happy. Just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 3:03:57 PM EST
Man, hot topic.

I can see both sides here.
If I traded my NIW prebans, even - up for NIW post bans and pay shipping I lose money. What's the point?

No one is going to move from their family just to be able to own post ban mags.
That is dumb.
I am all for helping any gun guy I can but.........

It is my humble opinion that some pre-bans are better made. And have more value.
No way would anyone I know trade a NIW Labelle teflon preban for a NIB Okay parked mag. Preban or not. That is crazy. Just my opinion.

It is the law that is screwed up here. It is fricken ridiculous.

But if anyone feels different I will trade any amount of NIW post bans of any kind even-up for NIW Labelle teflon prebans. And I will pay Your shipping.
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 8:17:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By shiky:
why do those of you in free states who wish to charge exorbitant prices for pre-ban mags and lowers feel that its "your right" to do so? your rights are not infringed any more, but ours are. you should feel it as a civic responsibility to provide us with the same freedom for equal compensation. If you had a pre-ban lower that you bought BEFORE the ban, and i offered you a BRAND NEW lower, you'd have the gall to ask me for 400 more dollars to make it fair? i fail to see the fairness. the same goes for magazines. I just sold a few pre-ban magazines for roughly 13 dollars each, and i felt that was fair, since thats what new mags are going for anyway. i felt compelled to help a fellow new yorker, and didn't want to rape him.


Let me know when you want to sell me a transferrable M16 lower or M1 Thompson for about $3k, since you're such a humanitarian.


again you go back the the MG's. No regular citizen in america can own a brand new machine gun, so drop that. however, in most states, you can just buy a brand new magazine and not have a worry. i have to settle on second hand stuff. whether you keep it in pristine condition or not, its still second hand.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 12:59:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rich219:

I love it how everyone says " well it's your choice to live in ban state" etc. It shows how out of touch you are with reality. It's not as easy as getting up and moving because a state doesn't allow high cap mags.


Not as easy?
Course not. Freedom never is. But I did it and gave up a few nice things for it. I got out of P.O.S. California (my birth state) with the gun issue being a primary motive.
You and others can too and so quit whining for living under restrictions because it is your absolute choice to continue living there.

Needed to be said.

And having said that, no, I will not go so far as to rip of a fellow gunowner over mags in a POS ban state. But I will rip you on whining about the price of mags/guns yet you're still there.
It's kinda like, "shit or get off the pot"
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 8:35:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By shiky:

again you go back the the MG's. No regular citizen in america can own a brand new machine gun, so drop that. however, in most states, you can just buy a brand new magazine and not have a worry. i have to settle on second hand stuff. whether you keep it in pristine condition or not, its still second hand.


Again you go back to misunderstanding basic free-market economics.

1) Sellers are free to name a price, which buys are just as free to take or leave (as they see fit).
2) When supply is artificially restricted below the market clearing amount, prices will rise as the greater demand for these items cannot be met by the restricted supply.

Put these two, together, and you will see that transferrable MG's are absolutely no different than "transferrable pre-ban" lowers or magazines. The only difference is that the supply of preban items is larger than that of MG's and the demand is proportionally lower. As the supply of preban items dwindles, and as long as the laws do not change, the price of preban items will continue to increase.

Certainly, sellers are free to act from altrusim, and if you benefit from this, fine. However, no red-blooded American should begrudge a fellow American from turning a profit (however tidy) on a transaction that is primarily intended to benefit the BUYER and NOT the seller.

If Joe in Arizona is cool with getting new PMAG's to replace his old USGI Mags, and Larry in NY is willing to order those PMAG's for Joe in return for some USGI mags . . . that's great. However, in every transaction the buyer and seller need to decide if the circumstances meet their own measures of value and utility.

There is absolutely ZERO logic in stating that because I bought some pre-ban lowers for $300 each in 1998, but that people in other states can get new lowers for $100, that I should sell my pre-ban lowers for only $100. This is completely, 100% absurd. If there are others in CT and NY that want pre-ban lowers, they can pay. When I leave CT, I would probably want (at a minimum) the value of a new, complete factory Colt lower w/ Geissele SSA trigger in exchange for a stripped pre-ban lower.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 11:45:29 AM EST
ahh, greed.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 2:05:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By shiky:
ahh, greed.


I'm sorry for supporting the capitalist philosophy our Nation was founded on . . . I'm sure when Comrade Obama is elected, he'll fix things so that they're so much more fair for your "Blue State" . . .
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:40:26 PM EST
not everyone is independently wealthy and can pick up and leave. unfortunately i'm still in college.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:41:13 PM EST
I have 10 pre-bans 95-100% for $125 shipped on the EE and getting zero action on them. So there is not a lot of demand for them right now.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 7:06:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By shiky:

again you go back the the MG's. No regular citizen in america can own a brand new machine gun, so drop that. however, in most states, you can just buy a brand new magazine and not have a worry. i have to settle on second hand stuff. whether you keep it in pristine condition or not, its still second hand.


Again you go back to misunderstanding basic free-market economics.

1) Sellers are free to name a price, which buys are just as free to take or leave (as they see fit).
2) When supply is artificially restricted below the market clearing amount, prices will rise as the greater demand for these items cannot be met by the restricted supply.

Put these two, together, and you will see that transferrable MG's are absolutely no different than "transferrable pre-ban" lowers or magazines. The only difference is that the supply of preban items is larger than that of MG's and the demand is proportionally lower. As the supply of preban items dwindles, and as long as the laws do not change, the price of preban items will continue to increase.

Certainly, sellers are free to act from altrusim, and if you benefit from this, fine. However, no red-blooded American should begrudge a fellow American from turning a profit (however tidy) on a transaction that is primarily intended to benefit the BUYER and NOT the seller.

If Joe in Arizona is cool with getting new PMAG's to replace his old USGI Mags, and Larry in NY is willing to order those PMAG's for Joe in return for some USGI mags . . . that's great. However, in every transaction the buyer and seller need to decide if the circumstances meet their own measures of value and utility.

There is absolutely ZERO logic in stating that because I bought some pre-ban lowers for $300 each in 1998, but that people in other states can get new lowers for $100, that I should sell my pre-ban lowers for only $100. This is completely, 100% absurd. If there are others in CT and NY that want pre-ban lowers, they can pay. When I leave CT, I would probably want (at a minimum) the value of a new, complete factory Colt lower w/ Geissele SSA trigger in exchange for a stripped pre-ban lower.


So if I bought Enron Stock @ $50 a share in 1998 and wanted to resell it today in a market where Enron essentially had no market for the same amount that I bought it for, would you look at me like I had 3 heads?

The same applies here. With 90% of the United States of America free of any sort of AWB, your market is narrowing. The price of preban anything has stabilized and even gone down. Apparently you feel that you can buck that trend, good luck.

Just because you have preban Glock magazines that you paid an exorbitant amount for in 1997, doesnt necesarilly mean that you are going to be able to fetch the same price + 2007 inflation dollars when there are other avenues of procurement far more reasonable than $60 a piece. Who would pay that price when places like Top Glock, Glock Doctor, Glocktalk routinely sell preban glock magazines for $15-$20 a piece?

Surely such a keen pupil of the stock market such as yourself is familiar with the phrase "competition drives price"? As it stands, you arent even in the competition.

But I digress. You have every right to list them in the EE for whatever price you want. I suspect that by the time someone buys them with inflation added, you will have raised the price to $120 a piece.

Best of luck.....
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 12:49:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2008 12:51:24 PM EST by Castillo]

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By shiky:
ahh, greed.


I'm sorry for supporting the capitalist philosophy our Nation was founded on . . . I'm sure when Comrade Obama is elected, he'll fix things so that they're so much more fair for your "Blue State" . . .


I'm jump into the foray...


Personally, I am a proponent of those in free America helping us in NY and other commie states by trading 1 for 1 magazines or 1 for 2 lowers. Of course, I am in NY, so it is helping me.

ShakenNotStirred is completey right. If you live in a free state and have pre-bans, you can sell them for whatever you want or will get for them. Is it 'fair'? who cares? This is American, not Disneyland. Ya, it's real nice of those peoeple who choose to trade off their pre ban stuff to us behind the lines, but they don't have any moral responsibilty to.

I can easily find preban mags for $10 each, so I buy them for that. If all I could find were prebans for $60 each, I'd have to pay that. If someone sells their magazines for $35 NIW and someone buys them, then good on them for making some money.

Edited for clarity.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 12:59:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By shiky:
ahh, greed.


I'm sorry for supporting the capitalist philosophy our Nation was founded on . . . I'm sure when Comrade Obama is elected, he'll fix things so that they're so much more fair for your "Blue State" . . .


I wonder what hell do in your blue state?
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 6:32:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adirondack47:

I wonder what hell do in your blue state?


What is your question?

I'm stationed here. My vote actually counts (in FL). I also have firearms in CT that civilians would not be allowed to possess. The only restraint that I have is that I can't add to the number of lawfully post-ban "bad-featured" firearms.
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 7:39:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Adirondack47:

I wonder what hell do in your blue state?


What is your question?

I'm stationed here. My vote actually counts (in FL). I also have firearms in CT that civilians would not be allowed to possess. The only restraint that I have is that I can't add to the number of lawfully post-ban "bad-featured" firearms.




Thats rich.

Log onto the Supreme Court's wensite, look for Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000) and remind me again of how much your vote counts in Florida (and not anywhere else apparently):

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