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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/24/2004 4:12:39 PM EDT
What is the proper method for attaching a Phantom to a 14.5" barrel to make it a non-NFA length? Can anyone show me any ATF documents specifying the proper method? TIA Jim
Link Posted: 4/24/2004 4:20:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2004 4:23:53 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
Screw the thing on, drill a small hole through the brake and into the threads slightly, enough to lock the phanton and barrel together with a pin, and TIG over the top of the pin, all done. You could just send it to somebody that does this everyday, ADCO, Kurt, and countless others could do it for you for a nominal cost.

Whatever you do, do not consider the silver solder idea, something about heating the end of a barrel and muzzle device to a dull cherry red just gives me the "willies".

My 1990 era Bushmaster 11.5-5.5 had 2 pins, and brazed over the top. The 5.5 is no longer on the barrel.


Or do a search for "permanently attaching muzzle device".
Link Posted: 4/24/2004 9:30:17 PM EDT
That whole "glowing red" thing is almost enough to give a guy an ulser. That's why I plan to find a gunsmith who uses the "pin and weld" method you mentioned. I plan on replacing the muzzle brake on my Bushmaster with something else after sept. If the Assault Weapons Ban expires, it will be a vortex, if not I'm thinking of trying to find one of the fake muzzle devices that looks like the phantom but doesn't really do anything to the flash or recoil. These Mini-Y comps are way too loud. I wouldn't dare fire it anywhere near a graveyard, it might wake up the whole place. Do you know of a BATF letter giving the details on how to properly do the "pin and weld" method? Are there any requirements on pin size and depth? The only letter I know of on the subject is at the website below, and it doesn't mention anything about the "pin and weld" method. Apparently the method is legal though, since Bushmaster uses it.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter40.txt
Link Posted: 4/24/2004 11:22:06 PM EDT
There are no pin size or depth requirments, it just needs to be attached perm. Blind pin method.

Install hider where you want it, mark bottom center with pin punch.
Remove and drill a hole to match pin size.
Reinstall hider where you want it, using same drill bit dimple barrel threads, be careful do not go to deep. Blow out pin hole to remove junk, tap pin into place make sure to seat it all the way down.

Weld over pin, remove excess with file and sand to remove file marks, retouch with cold blue or repark. All done.

Remember you can only install flash hiders on preban guns until the ban sunsets.

To anwser your legal ?s contact a lawyer or the ATF directly.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 5:51:45 AM EDT
I just did mine. I used the high temp sliver solder paste. Contrary to the statements above, it only needs to be heated to a dull red. The finish on the flash suppressor was only slightly discolored. I would have to tell you to look for it before you noticed. The trick is to clean well before heating. The threads do not have very much clearance for the paste so you may want to slot the threads in the phantom to insure enough paste stays there. I also used some around the peel washer. You only need MAP gas not MAP gas and oxygen. I picked up a can of MAP with the spiffy self igniter handle for $35 from a local hardware store. The silver solder paste was $15 from a jewelry making supply store. It took about 5 minutes for the whole job. Didn't have to send it anywhere.

The group size did not change. I still get better than moa groups (when I use a scope).
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 12:23:05 PM EDT
If you wanna remove that later, is it easy to clean up the threads?

BoB
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 3:36:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sodacan_slayer:
These Mini-Y comps are way too loud. I wouldn't dare fire it anywhere near a graveyard, it might wake up the whole place.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter40.txt



I was considering either the mini comp or the larger Y comp for my rifle. Is there a better muzzle brake out there? I haven't considered the noise factor untill now. Help me out before I screw up...
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 5:25:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2004 5:26:54 PM EDT by BrightFlashlights]
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 8:11:01 PM EDT
I haven't had any experience with other brakes except a smith enterprise brake that mounts via set screws instead of barrel threads. It doesn't seem all that loud, but it's mounted on a 20" barrel instead of the 14.5", so it's not really a fair comparison.

I plan to wait until the ban expires so I can mount a flash suppressor. If the ban doesn't expire I'll probably try to find either a quieter brake or just a fake muzzle device of some type to replace it with. The "Ghost" made by "Star Tactical" looks a lot like a phantom, I might give it a try since I'm not really interested in reducing recoil, just keeping my barrel a legal length. Below is a link to a picture and description of it. The only problem is, I don't seem to be able to find a place that sells them. Does anyone know where to buy one? Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/25/2004 8:19:30 PM EDT
Oops, I forgot to put the link. Here it is.
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15shootersSite/muzzledevices.msnw
Link Posted: 4/26/2004 6:11:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/26/2004 10:11:15 AM EDT
Thanks, I'll send him an email.
Link Posted: 4/26/2004 2:52:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BrightFlashlights:

"he works with OH Rapid Ordinance".



EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, wrong answer!

Ohio Rapid Fire
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 10:28:25 AM EDT
I've had me223, from ORF, pin & weld two Phantoms, and work on two other barrels for me. I would definately reccomend him.
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 10:34:13 AM EDT
Anybody know how Bushmaster does them? I have a BM with a phantom permently attached that I would like to remove but I'm not sure if it's possible?
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 10:43:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2004 10:51:05 AM EDT by garr]
I Drill a hole in the bottom of the Flash hider/Brake, Drill a slight indentation into the barrel, Tap the hole in the Flash hider/Brake, Screw a proper set screw in & Weld over the set screw. Clean up the weld & touch up the area.

I agree with the other guys about not soldering the brake on, First That amount of heat for that period of time has got to be no good for the barrel.
Second, I had a buddy that used the solder paste & mapp torch method, He heated until the brake was glowing red. He thought everything was fine. Years later he sent it out to have the brake removed to have a Full Float RAS installed, The shop owner he sent it to said the brake just screwed off with very little effort, He said when my friend installed the brake he did not get the solder hot enough & it never fully melted. He also said this is not the first time he saw this.
SO if you want to use the solder method you had better make sure you get it hot enough to flow or you may be a felon & not know it!
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 3:57:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/27/2004 7:41:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2004 3:35:30 PM EDT
I've put several DSA muzzlebrakes on FALs with silver solder... it really works well. My personal FAL has one and I did not notice any change in group sizes (chrome lined bore also). It would be easy to make mistakes though... silver solder comes in various "temperatures"... you need to get the 1100 degree stuff. Also, you REALLY have to make sure everything is CLEAN / degreased.

The faint of heart should probably have it done professionally!

Scot
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:08:41 PM EDT
I removed an AK brake from my Bushmaster today with a dremel, hacksaw, and cold chisel, with absolutely no damage to the threads. I did it by sawing off the brake about 1/2" from where it meets the threads, carefully grinding two slots at 6 and 12 ALMOST all the way to the threads, and then wedging the cold chisel into the slots (straight in from the face of the barrel, using that 1/2" of metal I left hanging off, not perpendicular), and tapping the chisel until the two halves split cleanly. Kinda like splitting a log if you can picture what I mean.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:06:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
I removed an AK brake from my Bushmaster today with a dremel, hacksaw, and cold chisel, with absolutely no damage to the threads. I did it by sawing off the brake about 1/2" from where it meets the threads, carefully grinding two slots at 6 and 12 ALMOST all the way to the threads, and then wedging the cold chisel into the slots (straight in from the face of the barrel, using that 1/2" of metal I left hanging off, not perpendicular), and tapping the chisel until the two halves split cleanly. Kinda like splitting a log if you can picture what I mean.



Wow, cool, will give that a try!
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