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Posted: 10/19/2004 9:16:17 AM EST
I have been reading some various posts and reviews on this upper. My range buddie is considering purchasing one and is trying to get some idea of what he is in for as far as:
1) Accuracy
2) He reloads - cost of components
3) Availability of brass
4) Weight
5) Fit to his Bushmaster lower
6) General toughts on the WSSM round
7) How good out to 600yds
8) Should he just get a 223 Varmint upper and call it a day

He is not going to go to the range and shoot a 1000 rounds through it. Maybe 100-200 rounds, out to 600 yards. Is it a decent alternative to him purchasing an AR10 in 243.

I can't help him, never shot a WSSM round before, so I appeal to my fellow AR15er's.

Thanks in advance for your input.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 10:46:57 AM EST
I have had one for about 7 months. In that time I have developed 3 loads that will do .3MOA or less but I am still working on them. I have a 90gr match load that will do .25MOA and is getting better. Depending on how many times you can use the brass, you can get you cost down to about 30 cents per round. I have loaded some 4 times with no problems. Factory is about 1 buck. I have the 20" Sum barrel on mine. For 600 yards you might want to consider the 24" barrel. The gun weighs about 11 lbs and I have it on an Olympic lower. I have had no problems and have about 700 rounds down the tube. I would go with the SUM barrel if that is still an option. Since you reload you will find that the WSSM cartridges like it HOT!!. The case necks are thicker than most and require very near maximum pressures in order to seal the neck in the chamber. Until you do that your accuracy will not be all that great.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 10:49:20 AM EST
It will hit a lot harder than .223. Ammo is on the shelves, brass is available. The rifles are heavy, cause the barrels are heavy. OAI will turn one down, they do lots of custom work. Should fit a BFI lower pretty well. Use a red gapper if its an issue. It will be a decent paper puncher past 600m, if your buddy is up to it.

A member here has one. He shoots .7 MOA with factory ammo, .26 is his best group with handloads.

It should be cheaper than AN AR10 in .243, and 200 fps faster.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 12:00:31 PM EST
I've got one in the .243 WSSM. It's a 22", fluted and it weighs in at 9-1/2 pounds with a large variable (6-24X). The components for the .243 WSSM are now readily available. I have picked up the brass new for .28 @ and have bought them "once fired" for about .11 @. I have annealed the necks and have yet to have a case go bad (cracked neck, loose primer pocket ect.) I am getting one hole groups with 70 grain bullets @ 3650 fps and sub ½ inch groups with the 85 grain Nosler partition and smaller groups with the 88 grain Berger or 87 grain HPBT Hornaday traveling at 3350 fps. I have a buddy that got one just like mine only in the .25 WSSM and he is getting 2985 fps with a 120 grain bullet, that's some real energy!

I would never want to be without my .223 but this WSSM is the best thing that's ever happened to an AR! The feed/function has been great. I had mine out west hunting this fall. I put about 200 rounds through it on the trip and never had any problems. I got some great long-range shooting and it still pack a real good punch at a 1/4 mile and beyond.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 3:31:21 PM EST
I have all the components to reload but still haven't managed to get my rifle yet. Need to sell some stuff. With the 243 you're aproching the power of 308 but in a AR-15 size package and with a better BC. What's not to love?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:55:24 AM EST
How many rounds before the bbl is shot out, typicaly?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:04:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:35:56 PM EST
Barrel life is based on many things, some you can control, others you can't.

If you are hand-loading, powder and bullet selection will make a big difference. The large-kernel, extruded powders will have more of a "sand blast" effect on the throat than the ball propellents will. To make an example: My father was a gunsmith and made well over 100, bolt-action rifles chambered in .243 Super Rock Chucker. It is a 25-06 case necked down to .243 and the shoulder sharpened to 33 degrees. He built these rifles over the period of 30 years. Some of his customers were shooting light bullets at scorching velocities and got a very short barrel life. (2500-3000 rounds) There were some of his customers that, with the same caliber, got barrel life of 10,000- 15,000 rounds. They were shooting heavier bullets with lower pressure/velocity loads, and they were using H450, a ball powder instead of perhaps IMR 4831, a large-kernel , extruded powder.

Continuing to shoot when the barrel is hot will drastically shorten the life of your barrel. It is possible to ruin a barrel in one afternoon of shooting if you ignore that fact.

Care while cleaning your barrel is another factor. Many barrels are destroyed over the period of time by improper cleaning techniques.

I know this is a "hot" subject, but moly-coated bullets will increase your barrel life. I have been using moly for about as long as it has been available (or at least long before it was popular). Between the lubricating effect of the moly and the fact that you no longer have to scrub your barrel with a brush will give you longer barrel life. This is not a conjecture on my part, I have used it and seen it work.

Bottom line: If you stay away from the light, high velocity loads, and don't shoot while your barrel is too hot, I think you will get 8,000 to 10,000 rounds of sub MOA accuracy out of either the .243 WSSM or the .25 WSSM.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:22:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 10:46:20 PM EST by m98codered]

Originally Posted By Mardwell:
I've got one in the .243 WSSM. It's a 22", fluted and it weighs in at 9-1/2 pounds with a large variable (6-24X). The components for the .243 WSSM are now readily available. I have picked up the brass new for .28 @ and have bought them "once fired" for about .11 @. I have annealed the necks and have yet to have a case go bad (cracked neck, loose primer pocket ect.) I am getting one hole groups with 70 grain bullets @ 3650 fps and sub ½ inch groups with the 85 grain Nosler partition and smaller groups with the 88 grain Berger or 87 grain HPBT Hornaday traveling at 3350 fps. I have a buddy that got one just like mine only in the .25 WSSM and he is getting 2985 fps with a 120 grain bullet, that's some real energy!

I would never want to be without my .223 but this WSSM is the best thing that's ever happened to an AR! The feed/function has been great. I had mine out west hunting this fall. I put about 200 rounds through it on the trip and never had any problems. I got some great long-range shooting and it still pack a real good punch at a 1/4 mile and beyond.



THERE'S A .25WSSM UPPER FOR THE 15'????WHERE??WHO???I WANT ONE NOW!!!!

you got any pics of the 243wssm/25wssm AR's....also what size magazines does the uppers come with???
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:01:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 4:07:35 AM EST by Mardwell]
He got his from the same guy that fluted mine. The name of the outfit is Dedicated Technology, Bemidji, MN. The phone number is: (218) 444-7419 dtech1@paulbunyan.net I think he stocks the whole line (.223, .243, .25) as far as barrels. He does custom fluting and an integral comp, all options.

They take modified .223 mags. It comes with a mag that holds 8 of the wssm rounds (made out of a 20 round AR mag) I think they are easy enough to make.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:16:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By m98codered:

Originally Posted By Mardwell:
I've got one in the .243 WSSM. It's a 22", fluted and it weighs in at 9-1/2 pounds with a large variable (6-24X). The components for the .243 WSSM are now readily available. I have picked up the brass new for .28 @ and have bought them "once fired" for about .11 @. I have annealed the necks and have yet to have a case go bad (cracked neck, loose primer pocket ect.) I am getting one hole groups with 70 grain bullets @ 3650 fps and sub ½ inch groups with the 85 grain Nosler partition and smaller groups with the 88 grain Berger or 87 grain HPBT Hornaday traveling at 3350 fps. I have a buddy that got one just like mine only in the .25 WSSM and he is getting 2985 fps with a 120 grain bullet, that's some real energy!

I would never want to be without my .223 but this WSSM is the best thing that's ever happened to an AR! The feed/function has been great. I had mine out west hunting this fall. I put about 200 rounds through it on the trip and never had any problems. I got some great long-range shooting and it still pack a real good punch at a 1/4 mile and beyond.



THERE'S A .25WSSM UPPER FOR THE 15'????WHERE??WHO???I WANT ONE NOW!!!!

you got any pics of the 243wssm/25wssm AR's....also what size magazines does the uppers come with???



Fuck, I meant to ask at OAI when I stopped there today. I don't know if it is catalogued at this time, but they are a barrel maker, and will make you a .25 WSSM upper if you ask. Whether you pay the same for it or more for a custom job, I don't know.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:29:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 2:32:00 PM EST by Dtech1]
The .25 WSSM is not a special order. Oly may be out of them right now but I have 24" bull, SUMs in stock in all three calibers. .233,.243,.25 wssm. The pricing is the same for any of the three.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:32:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dtech1:
The .25 WSSM is not a special order. Oly may be out of them right now but I have 24" bull, SUMs in stock in all three calibers. .233,.243,.25 wssm.



Good to know. Maybe I ought to get one.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:35:00 PM EST
The .25 is looking to be a great caliber. I have built and shipped a bunch of them already. I don't have as much "range time" with the .25 as I do with the .243 but it is easy to load for and even the factory ammo shoots great.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:17:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:41:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dtech1:
The .25 WSSM is not a special order. Oly may be out of them right now but I have 24" bull, SUMs in stock in all three calibers. .233,.243,.25 wssm. The pricing is the same for any of the three.



how do I obtain one........is there a discount for group buys like 2 or more uppers
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:06:00 AM EST
IM sent
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:12:56 PM EST
What recommendations on bullets (weight) and brass?
After hearing all the positives I want one too!

Ron the friend I posted this for is going to call OLYMPIC ARMS on Monday, he's ready to pull the trigger.
Group buy a possibility (never bought from OLY before)?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:13:24 PM EST
As far as bullets go, I have been using the 88 grain Berger, 87 grain HPBT Hornaday, 70 grain Hornaday SP and the 85 grain Nosler Partition. All have given me great accuracy and very low standard deviation. I am a big fan of the 85-90 grain bullet in the .243. For the 85-90 grain bullet I use IMR 4831. For the 68-75 grain bullets I have been using Varget. As far as I know Winchester is the only brass available at this point. I have been telling all of my customers that hand-load to anneal the case necks. I have been doing that since early load development showed that anything short of a very HOT load would not seal the neck. The brass would be ejected all sooty and your standard deviation would be from the high double digits to the triple digits without annealing. After the casses have been annealed I have gotten loads that have SD as low as 5! That's the kind of number you NEED for long range accuracy. You could put 5 shots into one hole at 100 yards, but if your standard deviation is high, hitting game at 500 yards is pure luck.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 10:29:09 PM EST
I know what I want for christmas
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