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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 4/17/2016 6:01:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2016 6:08:04 PM EDT by HBGIBBY]
Need help with choosing a scope for the next AR build, will be a .223 with White Oak 22" barrel.

So, do I go with the lower cost P-223, or spend a bit more for the M-223....is it worth it?  Going to put all the good stuff In this new rifle, so why not spend the extra for the M?...thoughts and comments......

Nikon Prostaff 7 M-223 3-12x42SF with BDC 600 Reticle - $450

Nikon P-223 3-9x40 with BDC 600 Reticle - $250

Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 6:34:09 PM EDT
I had a p, sold it.

Replaced with a Burris Mtac 30.

Much better scope for just a little more.

Txl
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:27:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:55:54 AM EDT by MS556]
Originally Posted By HBGIBBY:
Need help with choosing a scope for the next AR build, will be a .223 with White Oak 22" barrel.

So, do I go with the lower cost P-223, or spend a bit more for the M-223....is it worth it?  Going to put all the good stuff In this new rifle, so why not spend the extra for the M?...thoughts and comments......

Nikon Prostaff 7 M-223 3-12x42SF with BDC 600 Reticle - $450

Nikon P-223 3-9x40 with BDC 600 Reticle - $250

Thanks!
View Quote


Take a look at the highly regarded in this forum Weaver 3-10x40mm Grand Slam Tactical.  It is a MidwayUSA exclusive from Weaver.  It is true Japanese glass and construction.  It has the superior MRAD exposed .1 mil per click turrets and matching Mildot reticle.  It blows away the P-223 and will hang with the Nikon Monarch in optical performance if not beat in, and destroy it with  better, accurate, repeatable turrets and far more universal and usable mildot reticle.  I have Monarch scopes.  This Weaver is a better tactical scope.

It is often on sale for $299 and at that price point is simply unbeatable combo of performance and value.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 11:56:50 PM EDT
Thank you for this, I will do some additional research in the Weaver Grand Slam!
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 12:45:26 AM EDT
We sell them where I work and I do not believe the M series is worth the price difference over the P series.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:02:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:


Take a look at the highly regarded in this forum Weaver 3-10x40mm Grand Slam Tactical.  It is a MidwayUSA exclusive from Weaver.  It is true Japanese glass and construction.  It has the superior MRAD exposed .1 mil per click turrets and matching Mildot reticle.  It blown away the P-223 and will hang with the Nikon Monarch in optical performance if not beat in, and destroy it with  better, accurate, repeatable turrets and far more universal and usable mildot reticle.  I have Monarch scopes.  This Weaver is a better tactical scope.

It is often on sale for $299 and at that price point is simply unbeatable combo of performance and value.
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Originally Posted By MS556:
Originally Posted By HBGIBBY:
Need help with choosing a scope for the next AR build, will be a .223 with White Oak 22" barrel.

So, do I go with the lower cost P-223, or spend a bit more for the M-223....is it worth it?  Going to put all the good stuff In this new rifle, so why not spend the extra for the M?...thoughts and comments......

Nikon Prostaff 7 M-223 3-12x42SF with BDC 600 Reticle - $450

Nikon P-223 3-9x40 with BDC 600 Reticle - $250

Thanks!


Take a look at the highly regarded in this forum Weaver 3-10x40mm Grand Slam Tactical.  It is a MidwayUSA exclusive from Weaver.  It is true Japanese glass and construction.  It has the superior MRAD exposed .1 mil per click turrets and matching Mildot reticle.  It blown away the P-223 and will hang with the Nikon Monarch in optical performance if not beat in, and destroy it with  better, accurate, repeatable turrets and far more universal and usable mildot reticle.  I have Monarch scopes.  This Weaver is a better tactical scope.

It is often on sale for $299 and at that price point is simply unbeatable combo of performance and value.



I also vote the Grand Slam Tactical...I own..great scope for the money
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 4:19:02 PM EDT
again, thanks for the input, really looking into the Weaver based on your recommendations.  Can you advise on high mounts for an AR platform?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 12:01:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 12:16:09 AM EDT by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HBGIBBY:
again, thanks for the input, really looking into the Weaver based on your recommendations.  Can you advise on high mounts for an AR platform?
View Quote


I recommend against separate mounts on an AR15 due to the short upper, limited rail slots, and the need to move the scope forward enough to get proper eye relief.  That would put your front ring off the front of the receiver.  Most peoole use a one piece cantilever mount that both raises the scope to proper height and moves it forward.

There are many options.  Look at the Leupold Mark 2 IMS.  It is rugged, reasonably light and usually about $85-$100.  Many here like the $85 Aero Precision mount.  Some like the Burris PEPR, but it is heavier and more bulky, also in the same price range.

Others use an extended one piece 1/2" riser that extends out beyond the front of the receiver and then attach low rings to that.  But stacking riser on receiver and separate rings on riser seems like a lot of opportunity for screws to loosen and tolerance stacking errors that could cost you elevation or windage adjustment range.  You end up spending the same, so why not go with the one piece and do it right?

If you had an AR10, there would be more real estate on its longer upper receiver and could use separate rings.  Seekins rings are popular for AR10s and bolt guns.

For your rifle I recommend any of the above one piece cantilever mounts, preferring the Leupold IMS or Aero Precision.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:39:44 PM EDT by HBGIBBY]
thank you...I did look at the Aero over the weekend as I am using their enhanced upper and bolt group on this build, but the sight was back ordered.  I ended up going with the Rock River one piece high ring set for now.  I am going to use the Aero BAR type hand guard for this build, so I will have enough rail to push either 5th one piece or two piece forward.  I am really a bug Aero fan, so may look at that one when it is back in stock....also, I did take the recommendation and went with the Weaver Grand Slam, like what I saw on the reviews, thanks guys!
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 9:04:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 9:09:43 AM EDT by cttb]
I have a Monarch and a P-series scope. Comparisons are tricky because the P scope is on a hunting rifle where I set it and forget it. The M series scope is very good. I dial zeros ranging from 100 to 600 yards with it. I also dial zeros for different ammo. The turrets are highly accurate and repeatable. The Spot-on software is accurate for the BDC reticle, which I have used from 300 to 600. I don't trust the software for dialing zeros, though. My Monarch has taken two very hard hits and has suffered no ill effects. The optics in both scopes are very good. The Monarch optics are little clearer and gather a little more light, in my opinion. I would spend the cash for the Monarch, if you have it. The P is still a good scope, though.

Take a look at DNZ's Freedom Reaper. I prefer their mounts to all others. I have an Aero Ultralight. It's good too, but I prefer the DNZ.

Edit: I just saw you went with the Weaver. I have no experience with that Weaver model. It's certainly well-regarded. I do have a couple of Weaver Classic V series scopes which are good values but not as good as the Nikons overall.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:20:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HBGIBBY:
thank you...I did look at the Aero over the weekend as I am using their enhanced upper and bolt group on this build, but the sight was back ordered.  I ended up going with the Rock River one piece high ring set for now.  I am going to use the Aero BAR type hand guard for this build, so I will have enough rail to push either 5th one piece or two piece forward.  I am really a bug Aero fan, so may look at that one when it is back in stock....also, I did take the recommendation and went with the Weaver Grand Slam, like what I saw on the reviews, thanks guys!
View Quote


Don't put any part of your scope mount on a handguard rail slot.  That is not stable.  It will flex and shift.  Pressure on the handguard will be transmitted to your scope and cause a POI shift.  In extreme situations such as impact to the handguard, it can damage your scope.  All mount contact should be on your upper alone.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 1:24:06 PM EDT by Muad]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Don't put any part of your scope mount on a handguard rail slot.  That is not stable.  It will flex and shift.  Pressure on the handguard will be transmitted to your scope and cause a POI shift.  In extreme situations such as impact to the handguard, it can damage your scope.  All mount contact should be on your upper alone.


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Originally Posted By MS556:





Originally Posted By HBGIBBY:


thank you...I did look at the Aero over the weekend as I am using their enhanced upper and bolt group on this build, but the sight was back ordered.  I ended up going with the Rock River one piece high ring set for now.  I am going to use the Aero BAR type hand guard for this build, so I will have enough rail to push either 5th one piece or two piece forward.  I am really a bug Aero fan, so may look at that one when it is back in stock....also, I did take the recommendation and went with the Weaver Grand Slam, like what I saw on the reviews, thanks guys!






Don't put any part of your scope mount on a handguard rail slot.  That is not stable.  It will flex and shift.  Pressure on the handguard will be transmitted to your scope and cause a POI shift.  In extreme situations such as impact to the handguard, it can damage your scope.  All mount contact should be on your upper alone.







 
While I normally agree with this, that it not always the case.







I have been running an Aero Precision Ultralight bridged over onto my Geissele SMR rail for over two years, and have never seen any issue with POI shift, etc. Even when pulling the scope off and reinstalling it.







Some rails, like the Geissele, have a long barrel nut that extends further forward than the scope mount. There is no way you can apply enough force to the rail to shift POI in this instance.








And, this isn't a bench gun. This is my hunting rifle, that I bust brush with, patrol fields, etc. It's solid.





So, I have to disagree with your points. If you are using a quality, properly torqued one piece scope mount on a quality free float rail that does not use a standard barrel but, bridging can work. I plan to change to LaRue SPR/M4 or SPR-E scope mount in the near future, but in my experience, this is not near the issue many make it out to be.






Now, if you're using a drop-in rail, two-piece rings, etc. Yes, do NOT bridge over onto the hand guards.












 
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 3:58:00 AM EDT
Thanks guys!  Happy to report my Weaver from Midway showed up today, very happy with the purchase so far, seems like a solid scope for the money, can't wait to start my next build and get it mounted.  Regarding mounting to the forward hand guard, I guess right now my thoughts are to use a one piece mount and bridge between the upper and the forward hand guard.  Also, I am using the Aero enhanced upper and Aero BAR style hand guard, so they actually bolt directly together,  using 8 screws, so they are bonded together very well at the upper.  Will report back once the build is underway!   Again, thanks for the input on the scope, great help, just what this site is meant for!
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