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Posted: 7/1/2005 10:24:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523][Edited]
| I picked up a DPMS lower parts kit to replace the internals in my EA J15 lower and was shooting it last sunday(beta mag dump) and the hammer and trigger pins started walking out on me. Never had that problem with the original interals. Would using the old trigger and hammer pins fix it? Or would I just be better off spending the cash for some anti-walk pins??? |
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| make sure you have the legs of your hammer spring OVER the pin, not under. That usually fixes the problem. |
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Also check to make sure that the spring legs are only touching the annular groove of the pin, and not on the side of the trigger C channel as the trigger is moved. If needed, either tweak the spring to prevent the leg from touching the trigger, of if the spring is installed correctly, you may have to either thin out the spring leg or widen the pin groove to prevent the spring leg from walking out of the groove. |
| if the hammer spring is in the appropriate location on the trigger pin, what causes the hammer pin to slide? After many rounds, my hammer pin rotates and slipslides to the side where the bolt hold open is?! |
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the hammer pin is held in place by the J spring inside the hammer. if there isn't enough tension from the J spring the hammer pin can walk. |
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Why stress trigger discipline? See Avatar
Joined:
Jul 2003
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EE: 100% (9)
KY, USA
heehee....how do you think I learned this little tidbit of info? (I didn't get an answer here within my 4 minute attention span, then found a pic over on Pre-Ban.com) 
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Todays military is not a catch-all for society's malcontents. As a nation, we want professional soldiers and airmen. The military is NOT a social welfare experiment!
|
I took a flashlight and looked down where the spring leg fits into the trigger pin groove, the trigger C-channel was preventing the spring from settling all the way into the groove. I had to slightly file the rear of the C-channel down. After filing it a little, the spring settles into the pin groove perfectly. No more walking pin. |
Or you could have just tweaked the spring leg to make it sit in the correct alignment (read see this problem when someone does a 15 min trigger job and makes the lighten spring leg bend down the leg, and not at the coils). |
No, this channel was not cut down enough. I looked at the spring bend option first. (The Dremel is always my last resort). There was just no way the spring would bend enough to engage the groove. |
| sometimes the wire gage used in the hammer spring is too large, cutting the legs into a V shape where they cross the pin is an easy fix. Replacing the spring is a better one. |
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Are you talking about the legs of the hammer spring going over the trigger pin? On my SP1 carbine, the legs go under the trigger pin. If someone could include some pics that would be great as I have had trouble getting the picture from the manuals. |
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Well I read the above posts and I am not sure if my trigger assembly is right or not. My hammer springs do not look like Danos to me so maybe I need to bend them to look like his? Here are the best pics I could get. I cannot stand this pin walking out! I know the weapon needs to be cleaned.     |
| your hammer spring is on backwards |
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I gots to have me one of those... |
Randall Rausch
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LOL ... I bought a used DPMS lower and had a walking trigger pin as well. It also would dent the primer on Norinco 7.62x39 ammo using a 7.62x39 upper but wouldn't fire. I just checked tonight and the hammer spring is installed backwards ... there is definitely more striking force on the hammer now that I corrected it. I'll have to try that Norinco ammo again ... |
| it's pretty common, I've got some pics in the making that should clear up how the spring is installed. |
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here's a quicky courtesy of ogcujo hammer spring is CORRECTLY installed, make sure yours looks like this and the legs are on top of the trigger pin if your trigger pin is walking out. |
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| You can mention Kuleck's book but the TM 23&P covers the same material and is free and available on this site. Plus the BIY section contains VERY detailed threads covering all aspects of AR assembly. That's one reason the rules for this forum direct people to those resources BEFORE they post about their malfunction. |
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It's a thankless job, luckily I have karma to burn.
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I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread</fon
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HEY YOU WASHINGTONIANS!
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I am not 100% sure but I think I found the problem. When I said that my hammer spring was in the right position, I meant it was above the trigger pin. But after looking today I noticed one leg of the hammer spring was on the trigger assemble and not resting on the trigger pin. I moved that leg and am hoping that will do the trick. It seems to have more tension now |
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Seems like you've already gotten your answer, but: I had a similar problem occur with my AR. Bang, bang bang, click click click. WTF? Go to check it out. Turns out the guy I bought the lower from installed the hammer spring upside down. Rightside-upped it and A-OK. He also didn't install the mag release properly. Duhhh.
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| JUST HAD MY DANCE WITH THE HAMMER SPRING/ TRIGGER PIN DISCOURD..DECIDED TO INSTALL JP PINS BECAUSE MY DPMS PINS WERE WALKING. .... THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY THE J SPRING WOULD DRAG AND COULD BE ELIMINATED. SIX DRILL BITS LATER I DECIDED IT WAS GOING TO STAY. AFTER STARING AT THE PHOTOS ON THE SITE, I DECIDED THAT THE TRIGGER PIN GROOVE DIDN'T HAVE TO BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LOWER......WORKED LIKE A CHARM! GREAT WEBSITE..... |
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I had just recently replaced the Model 1 fire control parts in my Ameetech lower with RRA parts. I have been to the range a couple of times, and burned off rounds in pretty quick fashion, with no problem. Last night, I was sighting in my new red dot, and started having problems. Hard trigger pull, bolt not wanting to close on a fresh mag, etc. Found my trigger pin walking out!  I had reassembled my gun using a pictorial guide from this site so I knew my spring was in correctly.  After doing a search, and finding this topic, I checked again. My spring in upside down!  So, do you think the guide I used was wrong? Not exactly. Well, I can no longer just push the pin out with my finger, so I'm betting that solved the problem. Once more, Arfcom comes through! |
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I have in my spare parts kit those anti-walking pins, I bought from Bushmaster I haven't had the need to try them yet so I cant report, but they look like this: Edited by Dano523: Do not use Loctite on the FCG pins. Short of the KNS units that have fixed pins for structural supporting (still not sold on this idea of the spring rubbing on the fixed pins), the pins should rotate with the hammer and trigger. The reason for this is the hammer pin is retained by the inner J spring fixed in the hammer, and the trigger pin by the hammer legs, which are in motion as well as the hammer cocks/uncocks. If you have problems with the hammer spring leg not retaining the trigger pin when installed correctly, then either the annular groove of the pin is a tad narrow for the spring legs (solved by thinning down the leg where it ride in the annular groove), or the hammer spring has been tweaked past the coils, and no longer rides in the annular groove when the hammer is in the cocked position. |
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98.6' F
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The pins shouldnt turn,and if you use the correct parts ,put together properly they will stay put. There is no reason to spend money on the latest wizbang gizmos. Regroup,inspect the parts,pins,jsprings etc..After its all together properly and you felt the pins snap into the hammer,springs the right way,,,,you can use a small drip of blue non permanent loc tite on the pin ends,,,parts need to be clean and free of oil. we used to do that on hard use machine guns.. ive never had pins move,,,did have one break at a bad time once in the early 70s. good luck have fun brad |
| sometimes the C channel raises the spring leg up enough to allow the pins to walk out, you can use a hacksaw blade to cut a little deeper into the c channel and then the leg will rest into the pin groove. Then again make sure the springs are in correct. The other problem that can happen is when you bend the spring leg a little to give a lighter trigger pull, it changes the geometry just enough to allow the pins to walk, the fix is again to make a little groove with a saw or dremel to allow the leg to sit lower in the c channel when the trigger is pulled. |
Hammer spring is tweaked at the Coils, and not down the leg. Bending/Tweaking the spring down the leg will cause the back of the C cut at the end of the hammer to lift/walk the spring leg out of the annular groove as the trigger is pulled. |
Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
| You can do either. There are variances from manufacturer to manufactuer and even reciever to reciever in hole sizes. If you invested in a high speed trigger group that you like, anti-walk pins are the best fix. In the army pin holes sometimes get augered out as a result of weapon abuse by the untrained. The army solution is to punish the offender and replace the weapon, the old reiever is then coded out (destroyed). I have done unauthrized repairs on army guns using anti-walk pins and never had a problem. |
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Thanks guys. I was having the same "trigger pin walk" issue. Sure enough, compared my hammer spring with Dano's pics and mine was in wrong. This also explains why I had two miss fires on a single box of PMC (hammer wasn't hittin' hard enough).
Flipped the spring and now the hammer strikes with authority and the trigger pin seems secure. Haven't test fired yet, but I'm sure there will be improvement. I'm an "old" noob. Just bought a personal AR after not firing one in nearly 30 years (was in the AF, so just shot enough to qualify annually). When I started to tear it down for clean and lube, I was amazed how much started to come back to me about field stripping... Anyway, thanks again. This thread saved me a trip to the gun shop!!! |
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Originally Posted By mousegunner58:
Thanks guys. I was having the same "trigger pin walk" issue. Sure enough, compared my hammer spring with Dano's pics and mine was in wrong. This also explains why I had two miss fires on a single box of PMC (hammer wasn't hittin' hard enough). Flipped the spring and now the hammer strikes with authority and the trigger pin seems secure. Haven't test fired yet, but I'm sure there will be improvement. I'm an "old" noob. Just bought a personal AR after not firing one in nearly 30 years (was in the AF, so just shot enough to qualify annually). When I started to tear it down for clean and lube, I was amazed how much started to come back to me about field stripping... Anyway, thanks again. This thread saved me a trip to the gun shop!!! No worries, Just glad that the tacked link helped. P.S. Welcome to the site!!! |
Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
|
Originally Posted By xcelr8n:
This thread fixed my light strike and pin walking problems. I had the hammer spring in incorrectly. Thanks! +1 same with me. Bought a new assembled lower (EA lower with Stag LPK) & had this exact problem out of a 6.8 upper. Thanks so much for fixing my problem! |
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Hi guys i think i have a question related to this topic......
My friend just bought an RRA AR-15 rifle...... he went to shoot it and when he tried to fire the rifle just clicked and when he pulled the bullet out the firing pin hit the primer but just left a dent and didnt fire... he tried this multiple times with the same effect...could there be something wrong with his firing pin? I am not too new to the AR-15/M-16 style rifle, i own a "M4" style Colt AR-15 H-BAR.... Instead of chasing the problem down in this thread, best sugestion is to start a new topic on the specific problem, and we can attack it there. Where this helps is if someone else down the road runs into the same problem you are having, the solution is often quick, and saves them from having to read page after page in search of an answer. |
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