User Panel
Posted: 2/22/2006 1:43:12 PM EDT
Guys, I am at an NCO school right now, preparing to give a briefing on the development and operational history of the M16 rifle. I am sharing one terminal with 14 other soldiers for research, so I can only get on for a few minutes at a time. I still need some information for my briefing, and I am hoping you guys can help.
1) When was the M16A2 first fielded by the US Army? 2) When did the USMC begin fielding the M16A1? During Vietnam, or after? 3) What year was the actual M4 first introduced? I know there were a number of similar variants prior to that. 4) When was M855 ammo introduced? I could also use a few good pics if you guys don't mind providing them. I've Google Image searched a few pics, but I think I could do better if I had more time. I need good LARGE pics of the M14, M16A1, and M16A2 in action (or on parade in a soldier's hands, etc). Thanks in advance for any help, guys. I'll post a transcript or video of my briefing after I give it on Sunday. I will try to log on later tonight or tomorrow if possible. |
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Heres a lot of reading but full of excellent information...
www.thegunzone.com/green-ammo.html www.armalite.com/library/history/history.htm#1 www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html www.wordiq.com/definition/M16 www.hailstone.biz/articles/Colt_Commando en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_%28rifle%29#XM177.2C_M733_and_M4_ carbine_versions ETA: www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html If I find any other info in my history files I'll add it to this post so you might want to check back soon... ETA: www.aboutsociology.com/sociology/Picatinny_rail ETA:psychcentral.com/psypsych/XM177 ETA: www.thegunzone.com/556prop.html ETA: world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm ETA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Carbine |
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Here is a link to a page at The Gun Zone. It is actually a timeline for the development of the 5.56mm round, but there is lots of information on the development of the M16 system as well. It is a long read, there are 5 or 6 pages, but it is full of lots of information.
Sarge |
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January 1985, the Army ordered 50 M16A1E1 rifles (already type classified and ordered as the M16A2 by the Marines at this point). In March 1986, the Army announces its first major order for the M16A2 rifle (100,176 rifles) In November 1996, the first Army frontline units begin to receive the rifle.
During Vietnam, by April 1967 all USMC maneuver and recon units in Vietnam were using the M16A1
First 40 XM4 rifles delivered to Picatinny in February 1986. Marines standardize the M4 in April 1986 for issue to Special Operations units.
October 1980, NATO STANAG standardizes the FN SS109 cartridge as the new 5.56mm ammo. The U.S. variant is designated XM855; but isn't actually fielded for several years. Here is a great history link if you need it for further research: www.thegunzone.com/556dw-3.html |
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Good post. You have a typo on the year for US Army fielding of the M16A2, should read 1986, not 1996. The rifles issued to the Marines in late 1966 and early 1967 were XM16E1's. Same thing as an M16A1 though, just a name change. |
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You want the long or short version of this story? |
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Short version, if possible. I guess actually the best date would be the initial issue timeframe for the M4A3, which is what these soldiers I am briefing are most familiar with. Thanks. |
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Very short version:
The first contract awards were in 1994. The M4 and the M4A1 were adopted Standard A that same year, and issue began. The M4 is Colt's model RO920 and is burst fire. The M4A1 is Colt's model RO921 and is full auto. Typically the M4 is issued to infantry divisions while the M4A1 is issued to SFG's and such. The first batch sent out in 1994/95 mostly went to SFG's and the like, with a few hundred delivered to each infantry division. Large scale issue to line troops did not really get going till 1997 or so. Colt is still pumping them out, and they are still being issued. |
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Well, looks like you got the info portion of what you were looking for covered! Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. Hope at least the pic helps.
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Here's a copy of the briefing that I delivered. Bear in mind it was delivered to personnel that don't necessarily have an all-encompassing interest in the history of this weapon. I tried to keep it interesting without getting too deep into the details. Feel free to critique all you like - just remember the damage has already been done.
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Was it well received by the troops? What types of questions did they ask afterwards? Did you think the visual aids were effective?
Thanks, and good job. uxb |
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They were all complimentary of the briefing, but no questions were asked, as we were cycling through about 15 briefings that day. The visual aids were a big help as well, and I got 100% or some such on the briefing. |
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good read. it flowed very well and was not a boring read.
don't ya hate boring presentations? good work |
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There are a lot of factual errors in that, particularly relating to Stoner, Armalite and the early versions of the rifle. As you said, the damage has been done, but if you are going to give the presentation again, all your facts need to be checked.
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Not to nitpick, but I thought the M4 used a 14.5 inch bbl. |
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It does and so did the Carbines before it. 16" is purely a Civilain market thing. |
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Care to elaborate? Statements like that need some verification. |
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This is gospel. |
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I might've tossed some stuff in there about the AR-10 losing the M14 competition, if time had allowed. That's really what the M16 traces to.
Not bad though, except for "Greetings". Sounds like you're |
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Sure: Enter Mr. Eugene Stoner. Stoner was an aerospace engineer who left the company he worked for – Fairchild Aircraft – to put his experience and training with aircraft-grade aluminum to work in a new class of lightweight military rifles. Stoner formed his own company, Armalite, and began developing prototype rifles. Eventually, he developed a gas operated carbine he named the XMAR15. Addressing the errors (in blue): 1. Stoner did not leave Fairchild to work on the AR-15, he joined it. ArmaLite was a division of Fairchild Engine and Aircraft Corp. 2. Stoner did not own ArmaLite, he was an employee. As noted above, ArmaLite was owned by Fairchild. 3. The AR-15 developed by Stoner was not a carbine, it was a rifle. 4. I have never heard of such a thing. Given that "XM" is a suffix from military nomenclature, while "AR-15" is a commercial trademark, I doubt I ever will. Et voila, one short paragraph, four factual errors. I would also point out that a history of the AR-15 that never mentions a certain firm named Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Co. (not even once) has serious errors of omission. And the forward assist was not NOT NOT added to overcome problems of jamming in Vietnam. This has been stated many times, I don't know why people refuse to learn it. |
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That is...in the Army. The Marine Corps had the M4, and called it that, as early as 1986. This per Patrick Rogers, who I imagine would know. |
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I'm not going to dispute BattleRife's criticisms. I am sure he is right on most if not all points. I had to throw the thing together fairly quickly and went partially from memory and partially from sources I could find with a minimum of research. On the 'rifle' vs 'carbine' issue, I was under the impression that a carbine was a term used to describe a light, short rifle, which the AR15 most definitely was when compared to other rifles of the day. Is carbine meant only to indicate a shortened version of similar rifle? |
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Stoner was the Chief Engineer at Armalite. He didn't own the company. Rather well covered in this link www.armalite.com/library/history/history.htm A carbine is a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry. An AR-15 is a rifle because it has a full length barrel and full sized stock. Also the terminology used in nearly every discussion regarding it calls it a 'rifle'. Not a huge point but most individual small arms are referred to as rifles unless they were expressly developed as carbines. Edit: this is also a very well researched article on the rifle en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_%28rifle%29 |
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The M4 was adopted as the Standard A carbine for the United States military in 1994. End of discussion. |
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We have gone over this several times within the past few months.
A carbine with an "M4" style barrel does not make it an M4. Even the Colt models on there own website are not M4s even though the lowers are marked M4. |
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IIRC Stoner developed the AR-10, it was Jim Sullivan (and someone else) who scaled the AR10 down to the AR-15 initially. Though IIRC Stoner later went to work at Colt to help out with the initial production of the AR15. Damn I need to back and reread The Black Rifle |
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Robert Fremont |
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Yes, there was an M4 in 1986, 40 of them that is, they were experimental and refered to by Colt as the Model 720/721. No evidence of any being issued prior to 1994. There were quite a few Colt Model 727 M16A2 Goverment Carbines issued in the 1988-93 time frame, and some confuse that carbine with the M4. |
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Agreed, better not to say anything then to pass along bum info. |
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