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Posted: 9/16/2004 5:36:27 PM EST
Evening,

I need some help identifing a colt I got in a trade. I unfortunately don't have a digital camera but the details are as follows:

Lower is Marked Colt AR15A2. Serial number starts with SP. It looks normal except for there is no raised area around the mag release. It has a two position collapsible stock. The locking ring for the collapsible stock looks like it has been staked in place. The front takedown pin is larger than normal and is a screw type rather the a push pin.

Upper is an A1, with a brass deflector and forward assist. The barrel is 16.1 marked CMP 1/7 NATO and is pencil thin. It came with a 5.5 inch style flashhider that slide over the barrel and screw on. It extended about an inch and a half in front of the barrel similar to the length of the standard A2 flashhider.

Is this a model that was available from the factory or has someone built this up? Any help would be appreciated as I am not up to speed on the various colt configurations....

Cheers

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:35:25 PM EST
From an internet search, the serial number indicates that the lower was made in late 1974.....

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:49:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 7:50:27 PM EST by Ricochet]
Sounds like somebody changed out the upper. Should not have forward assist or brass deflector and the 1/7 twist is fairly recent. If I am correct it should have a 1/12 twist. Not sure. Stock is most likely original if the staked ring has paint touching it up that almost matches the receiver. The early CARs were like that.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:31:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 8:48:29 PM EST by EvilLS1]
I agree with Ricochet.. Sounds like you have a lower from an SP1 rifle with an newer carbine upper and collapsible stock. Same as mine.. (1973 SP1 lower w/ A2 government carbine upper)..
http://modernmusclecars.net/guns/COLTAR15.jpg
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:25:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 5:29:09 AM EST by shamayim]
Not sure about the origin of the upper, but the two postion stock tube staked on sounds original. If I recall corectly, the stock piece should be plastic, rather than metal, and the lock ring should be the early type with two holes for loosening, rather than the current notched at the rear type.

Given the markings you've listed, it is NOT an SP1, so the upper and barrel may in fact be original. The fake extended XM177 type flash suppressor is not.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:28:41 AM EST
I searched through the site here and found three SP1 Carbines in the same configuration as mine with serial numbers in the same range as mine as well. A couple of people mentioned about the Sporter II carbines having the two position stock and more particularly have the tightening ring on the buffer tube staked while having the distinct black finish over the stake marks. I am content that the lower appears to be a Sporter II carbine. The big question is the upper. The one people had for sale had the exact same configuration including the thin 16.1 barrel, A1 upper with brass deflector and forward assist. The question is was this produced in 1974 when the lower was produced?

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:46:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 12:23:19 PM EST by 2pid1]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:49:13 AM EST
The AR15A2 was not produced until the mid-80's.

Rifles from the mid-70's were stamped "AR15 Sporter" with "Model SP1" under that.

I would guess you missed digit when you looked at the serial number list. Include the "SP" prefix when you look up the number, ie., the serial number would be "SPxxxxxx". Number of x's will vary.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:16:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 9:09:46 AM EST by Morpheus32]
My lower clearly is marked AR15A2 Sporter with serial number SP3468XX. It does not have a raised area around the mag release and the buttstock is a two position and is staked in place. Based on the serial number search on Bighammer, it indicated a later 1974 production date.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:55:05 AM EST
The A2 Sporter II carbine was produced between 85 and 87. The uppper should have a A1 rear sight and a forward assist, some came with a brass deflector. I do think somebody played with the flash hidder though.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:00:24 AM EST
This website may help.

www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/variants/
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:13:18 AM EST
That is very helpful. I need to read through this careful. Thanks

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:31:05 AM EST
I don't think serial numbers went over 100,000 till around 1980.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:59:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 9:10:39 AM EST by Morpheus32]
I used the information from:

www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/ar15serial.html

It outlined the serial numbers based on the prefix. Mine is definitely SP3468XX.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:08:22 AM EST
I just checked my serial number again and noticed an error on my part. The serial number is SP3468XX which places it as being made in 1978. This would make a little more sense in terms of the upper.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:38:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 10:39:53 AM EST by Boomer]
No matter what, AR15A2 marked ARs did NOT appear until 1985 or so. The AR15A2 nomenclature nor 1/7 barrels simply did not freaking exist before that. So the 3 remaining possibilities are that you are either misreading the SN, the SN charts, or you have a remanufactured lower with newer parts swapped onto it.

After looking at the list on Biggerhamer, I think you are misreading it. The dates of manufacture column stops at 1978, but that doesn't mean that EVERY SN range listed after that was made in 1978. Heck, that list even includes post-ban models. I see my GS SN range isn't in there, though. So don't take that list as absolute gospel.

With the exception of the case deflector and slip over flash suppressor, your gun sounds like an R6420 carbine. A large hole A1 upper with a case deflector could have easily slipped out of Colt and be original to the gun while the slip over flash suppressor is most certainly an aftermarket part installed by someone looking for that shorty look that was so cool back in the 80s. In fact, the more I think about, I once had an R6500 with a large hole A1 upper receiver complete with case deflector. You probably do have a factory original R6420 circa 1985-87ish except for the cheesy flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:29:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Boomer:
No matter what, AR15A2 marked ARs did NOT appear until 1985 or so. The AR15A2 nomenclature nor 1/7 barrels simply did not freaking exist before that. So the 3 remaining possibilities are that you are either misreading the SN, the SN charts, or you have a remanufactured lower with newer parts swapped onto it.

After looking at the list on Biggerhamer, I think you are misreading it. The dates of manufacture column stops at 1978, but that doesn't mean that EVERY SN range listed after that was made in 1978. Heck, that list even includes post-ban models. I see my GS SN range isn't in there, though. So don't take that list as absolute gospel.

With the exception of the case deflector and slip over flash suppressor, your gun sounds like an R6420 carbine. A large hole A1 upper with a case deflector could have easily slipped out of Colt and be original to the gun while the slip over flash suppressor is most certainly an aftermarket part installed by someone looking for that shorty look that was so cool back in the 80s. In fact, the more I think about, I once had an R6500 with a large hole A1 upper receiver complete with case deflector. You probably do have a factory original R6420 circa 1985-87ish except for the cheesy flash suppressor.



Thanks for the info. I double checked the serial number and it is SP3468XX. I agree with you on the Bighammer list, it is open to interpretations. The flash supressor by the look and condition is not finished the same as the barrel and appears to be an add on. So probably an R6420. Sounds good.

Is the definitative answer to call colt to figure out when it was made and how it left the factory? Will they provide that type of information? In any event the rifle is in great shape and I look forward to shooting it this weekend. Cheers

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:19:54 PM EST
I guess my Colt is from the 80s..??? AR-15 A2 GOVT MODEL CAL. .223 SER. GS009XXX
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:24:17 PM EST
My AR-15 A-2 is from around 1986?

The S/N is SP216XXX

Mine is all A-2, 20" 1X7 HBAR.

HTH

Danny
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:56:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2pid1:
I guess my Colt is from the 80s..??? AR-15 A2 GOVT MODEL CAL. .223 SER. GS009XXX



With that SN it is probably from early 1990.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:57:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Morpheus32:
Is the definitative answer to call colt to figure out when it was made and how it left the factory? Will they provide that type of information? In any event the rifle is in great shape and I look forward to shooting it this weekend. Cheers

Jeff



Just call Colt and tell them what it says on the side of your lower receiver's magazine well. They should know the rest.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:58:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
My AR-15 A-2 is from around 1986?

The S/N is SP216XXX

Mine is all A-2, 20" 1X7 HBAR.

HTH

Danny



That sounds like an R6600.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:30:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:31:19 PM EST by fq1234]

Originally Posted By Morpheus32:

Thanks for the info. I double checked the serial number and it is SP3468XX. I agree with you on the Bighammer list, it is open to interpretations. The flash supressor by the look and condition is not finished the same as the barrel and appears to be an add on. So probably an R6420. Sounds good.

Is the definitative answer to call colt to figure out when it was made and how it left the factory? Will they provide that type of information? In any event the rifle is in great shape and I look forward to shooting it this weekend. Cheers

Jeff



It can't be 1978. I have a Colt SP1 SN SP105xxx that was made around 1984. A2's were not made until several years after 1978. Biggerhammer.net says that the A2 style showed up around 1984. THese ones used the large hole receivers. In 1989 the A2's began to use small pin lowers. Is your front take down pin large (a screw) or small (milspec)?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:33:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boomer:

Originally Posted By Minuteman419:
My AR-15 A-2 is from around 1986?

The S/N is SP216XXX

Mine is all A-2, 20" 1X7 HBAR.

HTH

Danny



That sounds like an R6600.



Just found the box. R6600 Green Label.

Danny
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:36:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Morpheus32:
I just checked my serial number again and noticed an error on my part. The serial number is SP3468XX which places it as being made in 1978. This would make a little more sense in terms of the upper.

Jeff



Here Morpheus. This will make your head spin.

My 1991 purchased Colt Match HBAR has a serial number of SP249xxx.


1978 SP83400 X
CC001616 and Below X
CH019500 and Below X
GC018500 and Below X
LH011326 and Below X
MH086020 and Below X
NL004800 and Below X
SL027246 and Below X
SP360200 and Below X
ST038100 and Below X
TA10100 and Below X


This is where ours falls under. There is no specific year listed.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:21:41 PM EST
GEEZ, all them serial #'s, So it say AR15A2..... for the serial to start with "SP", it should be marked "SPORTER II".

The Sporter II is a mid-late 80's firearm, I had a NIB SPORTER II in late 87/early 88. A1 upper, A2 barrel, handguards, flash hider.

I sold it and bought a Govt Model, mine is serialed less than 4000, NIB the first of Jan-89, 2 week later, Purdy hit the schoolyard, still have this firearm. A1 lower, all rest is A2.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:41:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
GEEZ, all them serial #'s, So it say AR15A2..... for the serial to start with "SP", it should be marked "SPORTER II".

The Sporter II is a mid-late 80's firearm, I had a NIB SPORTER II in late 87/early 88. A1 upper, A2 barrel, handguards, flash hider.

I sold it and bought a Govt Model, mine is serialed less than 4000, NIB the first of Jan-89, 2 week later, Purdy hit the schoolyard, still have this firearm. A1 lower, all rest is A2.



I have the rifle on my lap right now. It reads:

Pony and Colt
AR15A2
Cal .223
Sporter II
Ser SP 3468XX

There is no raised area around the mag release. The front takedown pin is a screw and is larger than the standard takedown pin...

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:47:24 PM EST
I have a 20 inch Colt marked AR15A2 Government Model. I have a letter from the Colt factory certifying year of manufacture as 1989. Serial is CSTxx5xxx.


Hope this may help establish year range information.



-REAPER2502
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:59:30 PM EST
If any of you gentlemen are interested in selling or swapping your NIB or LNIB Colt "Green Label" rifles...please give me a shout.

I'm looking to purchase or trade new production items for the older slab side Colt rifles.

R6000, R6420, R6500, R6520, R6550, R6600 etc.

E-mail - FIREDISCIPLINE@AOL.COM

Thanks, DD out!!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:13:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Morpheus32:

I have the rifle on my lap right now. It reads:

Pony and Colt
AR15A2
Cal .223
Sporter II
Ser SP 3468XX

There is no raised area around the mag release. The front takedown pin is a screw and is larger than the standard takedown pin...

Jeff



I bought the same rifle new in 1986 except with an A2 flash suppressor (Your's probably had this originally) & ser SP 321XXX.

I shopped for AR-15's for about a year prior. All the rifles were AR15A1 style up until I bought that one in the summer of '86. I was in the Army at the time & was excited to have an 'A2' since my unit still had M16A1's. Some time later, they started showing up with A2 rear sights.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:31:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Morpheus32:

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
GEEZ, all them serial #'s, So it say AR15A2..... for the serial to start with "SP", it should be marked "SPORTER II".

The Sporter II is a mid-late 80's firearm, I had a NIB SPORTER II in late 87/early 88. A1 upper, A2 barrel, handguards, flash hider.

I sold it and bought a Govt Model, mine is serialed less than 4000, NIB the first of Jan-89, 2 week later, Purdy hit the schoolyard, still have this firearm. A1 lower, all rest is A2.



I have the rifle on my lap right now. It reads:

Pony and Colt
AR15A2
Cal .223
Sporter II
Ser SP 3468XX

There is no raised area around the mag release. The front takedown pin is a screw and is larger than the standard takedown pin...

Jeff



Lower sounds just like mine - Ser SP330xxx - but with a regular A2 buttstock

Mine has 20" upper, forward assist, no brass deflector, barrel is thinner under the handguards

I bought mine new early in 1987 if that helps any.
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