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Posted: 5/2/2003 11:39:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes, it had to have been a complete rifle*, capable of semi-automatic fire, and in AW configuration, and it had to have been legally possessed on the date of the ban. And, you have to be able to PROVE that it was. You can be charged simply based on the fact that you possessed a gun in AW configuration. It is up to you (the owner) to prove that the gun meets the criteria to be grandfathered under the law. Of course, if the prosecutor thinks you'll be able to show such proof, he'll never prosecute in the first place...
*It could have been disassembled, but it must have been part of a *complete* kit, enough so that if it had been assembled, it would have met the description above. It doesn't matter who built up the gun, as long as it was complete and in AW configuration. But, in most cases it's easier to obtain proof about a factory-built rifle than from a gunstore's build. Just an aside: few gun stores build ARs, as doing so subjects them to paying the 11% excise tax, and dealing with that paperwork. -Troy |
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Posted: 5/3/2003 11:56:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the answer, I'm just wondering if the letter from the gunstore owner would realy be credible proof.
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Posted: 5/8/2003 11:56:43 AM EDT
[#3]
I seem to recall reading a post somewhere here that due to the fire destroying all of Oly's records, their preban serial numbered lowers have been grandfathered in by BATF? Anyone know if this is true or not?
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Posted: 5/8/2003 12:35:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Totally false. BATF has no authority to do such a thing, and the law simply doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is, and remains, on the possessor to prove that the AW in question qualified for the grandfathering exception. The only (AR-related) exceptions are lowers marked "Colt" and "AR-15", as these are banned by name, and therefore remain AWs regardless of configuration.
-Troy |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 5:48:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Legal questions should be referred to your attorney.
There is no [i]chain of custody[/i] or [i]chain of what parts is on the rifle[/i] requirement in the federal law. When an AR15 is transferred thru a FFL, be it just the bare receiver or a complete rifle the bound book entry is "rifle" and the serial number. No listing of parts is required or desireable. Burden of proof for an illegal act or item remains solely with the government. -- Chuck |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 6:01:15 PM EDT
[#6]
"Innocent until proven guilty."
It's still the guiding principle in all legal matters. NO, you do NOT have to PROVE the gun was in a legal configuration at the time the ban was enacted. The PROSECUTION must prove that it WASN'T. That's final. I've never directly argued with staff before, but the law's the law and I'm right on this. CJ |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 6:45:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: "Innocent until proven guilty." It's still the guiding principle in all legal matters. NO, you do NOT have to PROVE the gun was in a legal configuration at the time the ban was enacted. The PROSECUTION must prove that it WASN'T. That's final. I've never directly argued with staff before, but the law's the law and I'm right on this. CJ I used to think that way, but here's how it was explained to me: This type of gun has been banned. It is illegal to own one. They can prove that you own one. You can be convicted of that. However, it is a [i]defence to prosecution[/i] if [b]you[/b] can [b]prove[/b] that you had it before the ban/it was built before the ban, etc. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 7:33:10 PM EDT
[#8]
The latest scam from the BATF is to declare a rifle 'post-ban' if it was transferred in a non AW configuration after 9/94.
That means a rifle that was sold in AW config prior to 9/94 (pre-ban) then sold again in non-AW config after 9/94 (like if you mounted a competition upper) it loses the magic pixie dust and is no longer 'pre-ban'. So, to answer your question, the letter from the dealer is only good if he is the only owner. If he sold it and then bought it back you could have a problem. If the rifle was sold to or through a dealer while in non-AW configuration and the dealer indicates this on the transfer papers this gives the BATF reason to declare the rifle 'post-ban'. This is not likely since dealers seldom include such detailed information on transfer forms. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 8:20:26 PM EDT
[#9]
That "latest scam" you mentioned has no basis in the letter of the law.
The BATF's proper role is to provide a functional and useful interpretation of the law. Clarification, essentially. They should not be and are not allowed to be making new law by modifying their interpretation of the written letter of the law. The OPINION of the BATF has been rejected before in courts of law. The court system will properly refer to the letter of the law itself and not the opinion of an agency that didn't make the law, unless the court in question is staffed by people who don't fully understand how the system is intended to work. BATF's opinion that a lower loses its pre-ban status if it is transferred without meeting pre-ban feature requirements is a bogus opinion that holds no weight with the letter of the law, and therefore should be easily defeated in an honest court. CJ |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 4:47:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Unfortunately, the letter of the law is exactly where they have based their latest RKBA infringement.
The AW ban defines a rifle's status based on its configuration at the moment the ban took effect. ATF uses a tortured interpretation of the text of the AW ban to support their assertion that a rifle's status is re-defined every time it changes owners. The logic is so twisted it hurts my head to even think about it. As to their proper role, I don't think they have one. They work for the treasury which was never intended to function as a law enforcing body. You're right about their opinions not standing up to scrutiny. They have been laughed out of court a few times. Unfortunately, courts accept the ATF as an expert in the field of firearm technology and juries tend to take 'expert' opinions at face value. It is up to your attorney to find the flaws in ATF's assertions. |
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