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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/6/2005 5:33:45 AM EDT
I have been having problems with my new Bushmaster A3 20 inch. I bought it brand new from a gun store and took it to the range a few weeks ago to sight it in. After a few shots I found the the bullets were hitting 2 feet off target at 50 yards. After an hour of sighting it in the front sight was all the way up and wiggling and the rear sight was about half way to the left. I called the factory and after 2 seconds of talking the guy on tech support immediately said that I should send it to them to have the barrel re indexed. I got the gun back in less than a week which I was very happy with. The sights were all set back to the middle and everything seemed fine. This weekend I took it to the 100 yard shooting range and after a while I had the gun dialed in...... to the same way it was before it went back to the factory.

I have no idea what is wrong with this gun and I don't know if it would do any good sending it back to the factory. Has anyone had this type of problem with their Bushmaster??

As far as Bushmaster customer support goes i think that they are fantastic, they are polite, quick and don't place blame on the owner like some other gun companies.


I checked the barrel for any obstructions
I removed the carry handle and re attached it a few times
checked to see if the front sight is slanted
Link Posted: 6/6/2005 11:51:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2005 3:59:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By colin8651:
This weekend I took it to the 100 yard shooting range and after a while I had the gun dialed in...... to the same way it was before it went back to the factory.
Has anyone had this type of problem with their Bushmaster??



Just posted practically same thread. My M4A3 16" was doing the same thing. My upper is at BM as I type. I called today and the guy on the phone said that they had to re-index the sights. Is this what they told you as well. And also, Did I read your post correctly. You sent in your carbine, got it back, and you still are having the same problems with it after being returned. Please tell me this isn't the case. I'm starting to worry that I spent good $$ on a POS...
Link Posted: 6/6/2005 4:11:12 PM EDT
colin8651,

1st off welcome aboard

Sorry to hear of your trouble. No offence meant, but did anyone else fire the rifle and get the same results?

Did you try sighting it in at a shorter distance first?

Do you know anyone with a 20" A3 with an optic on top? You can ask themn to rrmove their optic and place it on your rifle to see how your POI relates to your POA with the optic. I find with my ARs I can change optics from upper to upper with less than a 24" change of zero.

It sounds like something is screwed up. Try to get a hold of Bushmaster again and ask them how to proceed. In my limited experience I've never had any trouble with bushmaster or their products.

Good luck and please let us know how you make out.
Link Posted: 6/6/2005 5:27:13 PM EDT
Question, did you send the carry handle/rear sight with the rifle back to BM?

Is this a BM carry handle/rear sight, and the one that came with the rifle From Bushmaster?

Link Posted: 6/6/2005 9:45:27 PM EDT
this may sound stupid, but what arpeture are you using? if i aim with the small hole, at 50 yards i can hit a nickel....if i flip up to the large,and ajust for elevation, i'll make the prettiest little group, but i will be 16 inches to the left of the point of aim....i cannot account for it, except some abberation from using 52 year old eyes....i've never seen anyone comment on this, and i'm loathe to bring it up, cause it just don't make sense, but there yopare....
Link Posted: 6/7/2005 5:36:15 AM EDT
Yes I think that we were having the same problem. Bushmaster isn't a piece of crap. They re index the barrel and send it out the door assuming that it doesn't have a problem anymore. Now I have to send it back so they can test fire it and really fix it. I don't like how I have to send it back, but I don't feel like I bought a piece of crap.
Link Posted: 6/7/2005 5:44:11 AM EDT
It is a brand new 20 in all factory org parts on it.

I had 7 different friends fire the gun and they all have the same effect.

I am not bad mouthing BM, I actual think that their customer service is top notch.

When I got the gun I zeroed it in a 50 yards and had the problem. I sent the gun to BM and got it back with all the sights set to zero. I zeroed the gun again but this time a 100 yards and the sights went back to the same (way off) setting that I had when I sent the gun to BM the first time.
Link Posted: 6/7/2005 10:18:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colin8651:
Yes I think that we were having the same problem. Bushmaster isn't a piece of crap. They re index the barrel and send it out the door assuming that it doesn't have a problem anymore. Now I have to send it back so they can test fire it and really fix it. I don't like how I have to send it back, but I don't feel like I bought a piece of crap.


This is kind off topic of this post but thought I would mention this to you.
If you call them they will get you a return label so you do not have to pay the shipping. They did this with my A2 that is currently there. I know this information does not take the pain in the ass part out of sending it back, but it was pretty pricey for me just to ship the lower to them and this time they wanted the entire rifle, I did not want to find out what the shipping was for the entire thing.
I feel your pain, but like you said they are VERY friendly and never once tried to say it is something I am doing.
Link Posted: 6/9/2005 5:46:34 AM EDT
The second time I had to ship it to them they emailed me a shipping lable.
Link Posted: 6/9/2005 11:27:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 9:37:20 AM EDT
The first time I was having the same problem and I sent it to them. When they sent it back they didn't fix the problem so it went back again. The guy told me they didn't test fire the gun.
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 9:45:43 AM EDT
Very scaring!!!!!!!

If the rifle was bore sighted with the iron sights you are using, and you are printing off the charts (windage), then you have other problems than just a canted front sight tower.
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 10:36:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2005 1:03:07 PM EDT
Just got mine back yesterday from Bushmaster. Took it to the range today, for a little while. At 25 yards I was really accurate. At 50 Yards, I had a nice group but was about 3" high and 5" to the right. 100 yards, I only had 3 out of 30 on paper have
Link Posted: 6/11/2005 7:09:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chesh97:
Just got mine back yesterday from Bushmaster. Took it to the range today, for a little while. At 25 yards I was really accurate. At 50 Yards, I had a nice group but was about 3" high and 5" to the right. 100 yards, I only had 3 out of 30 on paper . I didn't have a lot of time to piss with it today, but it seems better than before. Bushmaster said it re-indexed the sights. Looks to me like they broke loose the FSB and re-alligned it. There was a sticky substance near the base of the FSB where the front sling mount and my side mount are. I will need to get some more time to go to the range to be sure of it's shooting, but atleast I was on paper this time at the 50 yard line

What kind of ammunition are you shooting? What is the twist rate on your barrel?
Link Posted: 6/12/2005 1:41:32 PM EDT
I had a similar problem with my SAR-1. I had originally purchased it in 2002. so When I had some money together this march I took it up to Vectar Arms to have them thread the barrel. I added a AK-74 type break. The first time I took it out and shot it, I was hitting about 4+ feet to the right. I adjusted the sights about as well as I could without result. After about 30 min to an hour of shooting I was ready explode. Anyways to make a short story long, We looked at the break and saw that as the bullets were leaving the barrel, they were hitting the left side of the break. This was pushing the bullet to the right. Turns out the manufacturer of the break had made it incorrectly, I took it back to vector and they took care of me.


So the moral is: "does it look like the bullets are hitting around the muzzle?"
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 7:01:50 AM EDT
Just got word from Bushmaster. After test firing the gun they said the the barrel is defective and will be replaced for free. The bad news is that they don't have any 20 in barrels so I have to wait 2 -3 weeks to get it.
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 7:22:39 AM EDT
What to do, What to do.

I asked Bushmaster if they could turn it into a carbine 16' and get it back to me. He said he could ship it out this week and would be happy doing an even trade for a carbine.

Should I switch it to a carbine??

What is difference in accuracy at 200 yards with a 20 in to a 16 in.
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 9:19:31 AM EDT
dunno if this helps or not, but i had a 20" hbar that i rarely shot...switched to a 16" superlight,now I carry it around like a security blanket....
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 9:23:58 AM EDT
Now I need a cheap fake collapsible stock for my AR (in CT the ban didn't sunset)
Bushmaster sells them for a 100 but I was looking for a cheaper one without getting a cheap one.
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 11:10:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 11:53:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colin8651:
Just got word from Bushmaster. After test firing the gun they said the the barrel is defective and will be replaced for free. The bad news is that they don't have any 20 in barrels so I have to wait 2 -3 weeks to get it.



Good news on the free replacement! It's a shame you had to go through all the BS but I'm glad they are making it right.

I don't think there is a huge accuracy difference between the two. Velocity will be different but again close. I find the 20" heavy Barrels a bit slow and heavy. A 20" Govt profile feels very different and a whole lot better to me. If that's not an option or you really want a carbine get the carbine. I'm glad it's working out
Link Posted: 6/14/2005 6:40:26 AM EDT
Sounds like nit picking but wouldn't the slim barrel produce more barrel whip. mmmm More barrel Whip (sorry had to do it).
Link Posted: 6/14/2005 12:58:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colin8651:
Sounds like nit picking but wouldn't the slim barrel produce more barrel whip. mmmm More barrel Whip (sorry had to do it).



Barrel whip only comes into play once the barrel gets hot. The harmonics of the barrel will stay constant until the point that the barrel overheats. Plus, if you have a firefight that gets to the point that you start to overheat the barrel, then the barrel harmonics, or excessive whip is going to be your last concerns (read you have gotten to the point that you are dumping mags in the general threat zone while searching for the biggest pebble around to use for cover).


The thing to remember is that once in a while, an AR may be someone's actual service rig, and not the range/safe queens that we often see shinned-up/hand polished and posted here. In these cases, the lighter the rifle, the less weight that you have to drag around on your daily duties.
Link Posted: 6/14/2005 3:05:56 PM EDT
Bushmaster said it re-indexed the sights. Looks to me like they broke loose the FSB and re-alligned it. There was a sticky substance near the base of the FSB where the front sling mount and my side mount are. While reading this post I was wondering how they could reindex the sights. The front sight base is held in place with taper pins. The only way to to reindex the front post I can possibly see would be to remove it, drill the holes in the barrel out larger allowing room to shift the sight base left or right. This would be total BS since the fsb would then be able to shift back even farther the oppisite direction than originaly off. The sticky substance you'r e seeing may be blue loctite were they did just as I have described, trying to fill in the now over sized taper pin holes in the barrel portion. This could explain why both of the above posters had the same problem return. I could be wrong since I don't really know how they reindex the sights but if there isn't enough meat on the barrel to re-ream for the next larger size taper pins than I would guess that this is there method. Total BS, DEMAND A WHOLE NEW BARREL.
Link Posted: 6/15/2005 7:15:36 AM EDT
I'M SO FRICKIN PISSED OFF I CAN PUKE. After reading your post HB 40, I decided to take a closer look at my upper. Holy Shit. I see where they dumped what appears to be lok-tite all around the base on the FSB, and I just noticed the finish is discolored where it appears they used a torch of some sorts. if that isn't enough, You can see right through where the front sight taper pin is supposed to be. Yep, not there anymore. Don't know if It came out while at the range when test firing the rifle, or if it ever even had one put back in it to begin with. Damn I'm pissed!!!
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 8:11:45 AM EDT
Ok now this is getting really weird. I called Bushmaster to see if after they installed the 16 in barrel and would it be on its way back to me and they said that the 16 in was still shooting poorly and that I would have to wait the 2 weeks as discussed before for the 20 in.

Lets recap:
I picked up the gun brand new as a 20 in and after shooting it for the first time it was very bad.
Sent the gun to Bushmaster to have it re indexed and they sent it back asap.
Back at the range the condition of the gun didn't change a bit.
Sent it back to Bushmaster to have it test fired and they found that it was messed up and the barrel needed to be changed and that would take 3 weeks because the 20 in barrels were on back order. I asked if the wait would be less could you put a 16in on it and they said no problem it will be back to you by Friday.
Called back today to see if it shipped and the lady said that after they test fired it with the second new barrel on it it still shot poorly and that I would have to wait for the back ordered item to come in.

What is mounting a 3rd barrel on my brand new gun going to fix if the last 3 BRAND NEW barrels didn't work?


PS not a Bushmaster bashing thread, still love them.

Link Posted: 6/16/2005 10:50:42 AM EDT
I hate to say it but I can't see why the 16" shot poorly and they think a new 20" won't shoot poorly on your upper receiver. At this point I also don't understand why they just don't pop on a 16" complete upper and call it a day

I'm not trying to rile you up, I'm just as confused as you are.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:29:38 AM EDT
The lady I called didn't have the update status for my gun so the info she gave me was the status of my barrel being broken for the first time. The head of tech said that he didn't have and chance to test fire it due to bad weather, but it should be on it's way back to me Monday if all goes well with the test fire.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 11:33:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 5:11:41 AM EDT
Sorry to hear about the Bushmaster problems, but l hear horrifying stories about how many are sent back with problems. That is why I went with a Colt. I did not hear to many problems/issues with them New out of the box... I hope you correct your problem and get back to happy shooting...
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 11:24:40 AM EDT
Posted here now correctly after I pulled Jake's chain by posting in the wrong thread. My bad..


Summarized from Derick Martin's book, "The Complete Guide to AR Accuracy."

He discusses zeroing problems on page 238 and on, relates that

"Many times, parts guns and "Gun Show Specials" cause complaints about needing excessive windage to zero the rifle. This is caused when the fromt sight base is not mounted squarely on the barrel, which means the shooter must adjust the sight a corresponding amount. For minor corrections (10-15 clicks) a hard rubber mallet or dead blow hammer can be used to rotate the sight on the barrel. A considerable "whap" can force the sight against the pins in the direction desired. A relatively large tool must be used, and it's not something you want to do in view of a paying customer. (If it's your own gun you may wish to close your eyes while doing the job.)"

"Because the pins are tapered, there is a small amount of "give" where the sight can be rotated against the pins without removing them. For larger corrections (more than 15 clicks) the pins must be removed, the front sight base taken off the barrel, ..."

He then goes on to describe how to adjust for larger corrections using locktite and re reaming the holes to the new location. This is a fairly extended repair job.


I offer this information for a couple of reasons:

First, the problem may not be with the barrel pin and over tourquing; the front sight/mounting may have been mis machined in the first place.

Second, the extended repair above, if needed, is way to much to expect on a new factory rifle. I can see doing it for grins and giggles on a "Gun Show Special" or a parts build up, but I would be sorely disappointed with this problem on a new factory build.


I won't tell you what you should do, but I would go to my dealer and request a new rifle and let them sort out the reasons for the problem if they want to take the time. If you have already been to Bushie you may have to go back to them directly again.

BTW, I recently bought a new RRA LAR from RB Precision (+1) and Robert removed the FSB for me and mounted a YHM flip up. I still needed to do the final positioning however, including a little screw grinding and bluing, a rubber mallet, and a little blue locktite and some patience at the range.


I think that Bushies are basically good rifles, but there's something wrong here. I read on another thread that someone else had the same problem. I hope BM doesn't have a whole bunch of mis machined barrels in the pipeline! (Doubtful). I get the impression they have been struggling a little with production demands and hope they get all the kinks worked out. This is a good company who stepped up to supply civilians with good tools and I would like to see them do well.

Good Luck,

Regards,

Rick

PS Of course, someone will comment that if we'd "all bought Colts" that we wouldn't have these problems. What the hey, they're all machines.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 10:17:03 PM EDT
Next time you have trouble, send it back and have them field test it and sight it in.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 4:47:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:15:14 PM EDT
Got it back, and was still not satisfied. I sent the whole rifle back to bushmaster (even the instruction manual) and requested a refund. 3 weeks later, I was finally told that they were issuing a credit back to the place I bought it from. As of yesterday, the dealer had not recieved the credit. Hopefully I will know more on Monday. Once I get the credit issued back onto my Credit Card, I am going to buy a 6920 from a different law enforcement supplier.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:55:18 PM EDT
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