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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/11/2005 9:01:09 PM EDT
Okay gents...I chose an A2 cause I DIDN'T wanna rail it out with everything under the sun and just wanted to keep it as...."a light, fast handling carbine"...but I would like to put together some minimal yet effective, quick detach "Night Rig/Optics" package to go along with my new BM A2M4 Patrolmans Carbine and have been researching/shopping the net the past few days and here's the options I've come up with so far....

Option #1: Blow the Big Buck$ on a A2 Trijicon A.C.O.G. and call it a day. (I've not been hearing good things about acogs quality lately though and this scares me...especially at those prices)

Option #2: Go with an A.R.M.S. #2 Carry Handle Mount and ring up any high quality illuminated reticle scope of my chosing or...

Option #3: Go the 2-Piece Railed Out For-Stock w/ Cowitness Red-Dot Route.

BTW...I'm picking up a Streamlight M3 tomorrow and will be looking for a QD means of mounting that as well.

So...what say you oh wise ones?....and remember...I'm just looking for a good quick detachable night rig here...don't wanna carry all that crap...as it'll all be going back in the bag when the sun comes up and I'm on the move again type of thing.

T.I.A. Bill.



Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:34:57 PM EDT
This is what I did with my M4A2.

1) YHM 2 piece forend - Pretty much any 2 piece will work. Surefire, Midwest

2) Eotech 552 rev F

3) VFG

4) M6X right in front of the VFG

I like the A2 carry handle, but A3's are just as purposeful.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:47:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThreatResponse:
This is what I did with my M4A2.

1) YHM 2 piece forend - Pretty much any 2 piece will work. Surefire, Midwest

2) Eotech 552 rev F

3) VFG

4) M6X right in front of the VFG

I like the A2 carry handle, but A3's are just as purposeful.



Thanks for the response but...I need to buy some vowels here...what's a "VFG" and a "M6X"?

Thanks again, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:44:48 PM EDT
I was at Cheaper Than Dirt retail store two days ago. For about $70.00 they have tritium night sights to replace your front sight post and rear apertures in either A1 or A2 iron sights....I'm still mulling that one over...I have them on my SIG 226, and like them..not sure about for my Colt AR....FWIWhinking.gif
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 2:39:46 AM EDT
Rear night sights are useless on a rifle IMHO. You are focused so far out you never see them.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 3:04:14 AM EDT
So you bought an A2 because you don't want to mount things on it, but now you want to mount things on it? Color me confused.

With the flattop upper you could have purchased a quality fixed rear BUIS like the Larue or the LMT, and still had rail space for the optics. But, you did what you did and now you have to live with it (even though admitting you f'd up and changing out the upper isn't that hard).

Consider one of the compact ACOGs (not sure where you're hearing this "quality issue" nonsense but if it's that one choad that posted and hasn't been back to justify himself in his own thread, take that for what it's worth). You can mount the compact ACOG to the carry handle and still see the iron sights through a channel in the mount. They keep the sight pretty low, and when using a modern gunfighting stance are actually often more convenient to line up with your eye(s) than the irons. It's not really QD, so you'll have to bear the stigma of a carbine with mounted optics, but when you're feeling all mountain-man during the day you can look through the channel and line up those old irons.

I'm assuming you have the same disdain for railed forends that you have for the flattop upper, so look for one of the light mounts that attach to the front sight tower. They basically put a short piece of rail on either sight of the front sight and you can mount one of the Streamlight or Surefire pistol weaponlights to that piece of rail.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:18:05 AM EDT
I think the easiest way to go for you is to get an Aimpoint with railgrabber mount and the gooseneck. SWFA used to sell that as a set, don't know if they still do. Your dot cowitnesses, and the whole thing removes with one screw so you can take it off when you want.
As for the light, I don't remember what the model you're talking about is, but if it's similar to the SureFire G2 or base line models a QD mount is pretty easy for that also. Bushmaster has a Samco mount and a clip-on base that works with the A2 handguards. Not going to be as sturdy as rails and such, but you said you wanted QD stuff.
What are you hearing aobut ACOGs that you don't like? I haven't heard of any probs, and I've been using their stuff for years.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 3:41:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:26:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:29:08 PM EDT by FUZ1ON]
Thanks folks...still scouring my options and even saw where aimpoint makes a special A2 carry handle mount (A.R.M.S. 16A) of their own with the integral 30mm single ring....but...it's like $70...and that's for an above the sights mount with no cowitness...and then I'm still stuck with no place to mount my light...which is all ultimately leading me down the very path I was trying to avoid as...if I just go ahead and snap on a set of B.M.A.S. 4 Rail Split Handguards I'm there...problems solved...aimpoint cowits and all sorts of mounting room for the M3 streamlight..but then I'd hafta add a front grip as well casue I ain't resting my bare hand on a hot, vented w/ no heat shields forend fully of square edged piccitineys!!! LOL!!!

But...haven't made up my mind one way or the other yet...still shopping and comparing.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:04:27 AM EDT
Like I said-
http://www.riflescopes.com/products/96757/aimpoint_works_568059_10174_10566.htm
That's the Aimpoint mount, ring, spacer, the whole deal. That will cowitness your sight with your irons.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/handguards/hpm3.asp
Mount for A2/CAR type guards. the catalog says for rifles only, but I think it works on regular CAR guards. If not, see a couple of entries below.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/handguards/fbs-fab-2.asp
Ring for your light.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/accessories/sl-mount.asp
Another option to the clip on type rig, a little more stable and should fit the CAR guards.
All of this is QD, no other mods to the rifle.
From your previous post, nobody outside of .mil types needs rails and lights and such, so here is your stated desire.
Still waiting to hear what the prob with Trij is.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:08:02 AM EDT
m24 shooter....(and in_burrito)

"From your previous post, nobody outside of .mil types needs rails and lights and such, so here is your stated desire.
Still waiting to hear what the prob with Trij is."


First...thanks for your suggestions...2ndly...I guess I do owe you guys an explaination and clear up a few things so...here goes...

"The A.C.O.G. Issue": I've read a few threads over the years were folks were less than happy with their acogs...but more importantly?...I've MET a few folks over the years that were less than 100% pleased with their acogs...and not that anything was "broke" or "damaged" but just that...they expected far, far better glass for the amount of money spent than what they got. I looked through a few of'em both at ipsc competitions and gun shows and outside of the glowing reticles and hella rugged looking housings I had to agree with "SOME" of the owner/complaintants as...I've seen crisper, clearer glass on a $300 Lupy than some of the acogs I looked through and expected to see far cleaner/clearer/crisper images for the $800-$1,200 price tag...as I'd gently lay it back down, shake my head and...walk away....That said?..I've also met some very pleased acog owners and looked through a couple that seemed to be crystal clear.

"The Lights & Rails Issue": I was dead against "Lights" right up till last week when my FFL Bud shined a Streamlight M3 in my eyes...in a well lit room....I changed my mind about lights here cause this $hit ain't Rayovac and it took my eyes a couple seconds to get back to...well...seeing. LOL!!! and...well...if ya want lights?...ya kinda need a place to mount it...like..."Rails".

Cut me a break fella's...I'm an old school marine who's new to the carbine scene...and I just wanted a light, fast handling A2 version of the M16 and many AR's I've owned and loved...and I still do wanna keep it light and clean...but some QD lumens for the evening definantly wouldn't hurt...matter fact?...at this point?...I'm thinking that a combo Tac-Light/Laser is just what the doc ordered.

L8R, Bill.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:48:29 AM EDT
Bill:
No prob on the ACOG issue. Personally, I love them. For a 4x scope it's about the best glass I've used. Now it's not on the same level as my Lupita M3LR, but it is a 4x scope. I was just curious what you had heard as I don't think I've ever heard anybody crap on one. The only complaint I've ever heard is the weird reticle issue that is inherent to the prism and is not a defect, as some think it is.
As for the light/rail issue, I'm glad you've seen the light. Pardon the pun. In your other post, I stopped reading not long into it and didn't even try to argue as you were coming across as the type of person that freezes technology at a certain point and wasn't open to any new developments. I was wrong, and as you say, you understand it now. Lights have a very good place on weapons if used properly, and it sounds like you are moving that way.
FWIW, I didn't see the need for rails and VFGs until I tried one. Now I'm a believer.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 11:22:30 AM EDT

BRD claims another victim.

I did exactly what you did. I started with an A2 that was going to be nothing more than my KISS rifle. It stayed that way for about a year. FIrst, I replaced the handguards with rails and mounted an Aimpoint and light on the rails and told myself I would only use the Aimpoint in low light. It only took one range session to realize that I was going to keep that AImpoint as my primary sighting system. After a year of that, I swapped my A2 upper for an A4 put the AImpoint directly on the reciever and kept the light on the HG. Now I have ditched the Aimpoint for a TA11 and got a QD light mount becasue the light is rarely mounted...not sure what will happen next. This setup looks like it might stick...until I come up with the funds to FF.

My suggestion...don't get anything until you are 100% sure of what you want...because even then you will change your mind and want something different.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 11:36:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Bill:
No prob on the ACOG issue. Personally, I love them. For a 4x scope it's about the best glass I've used. Now it's not on the same level as my Lupita M3LR, but it is a 4x scope. I was just curious what you had heard as I don't think I've ever heard anybody crap on one. The only complaint I've ever heard is the weird reticle issue that is inherent to the prism and is not a defect, as some think it is.
As for the light/rail issue, I'm glad you've seen the light. Pardon the pun. In your other post, I stopped reading not long into it and didn't even try to argue as you were coming across as the type of person that freezes technology at a certain point and wasn't open to any new developments. I was wrong, and as you say, you understand it now. Lights have a very good place on weapons if used properly, and it sounds like you are moving that way.
FWIW, I didn't see the need for rails and VFGs until I tried one. Now I'm a believer.



Cool...NP....and yeah...I'm from the era back when milling off ones front sight and carry handle to mount up optics was considered to be a real bold move and...your only option if you desired such (outside of a carry-handle mounted scope). Also....I had one evening where I hadta sleep completely naked (as in nothing but my dogtags) WITH my M-16 in an issue sleeping bag (please don't ask) and I'd hate to think what "Rails" might of felt like....the plastic was far nicer to snuggle with. LOL!!!

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:10:39 AM EDT
DO NOT mount an optic on a non-free floating handguard. I have the YHM 2-piece (same one that bushmaster sells), and it got a little rotational play after some use. It's fine for a VG and light, but it will not hold zero.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 3:06:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FloridaConfederate:
Rear night sights are useless on a rifle IMHO. You are focused so far out you never see them.



the light on my back sights made my pupils constrict makeing everything darker, I just have the front sight on my 20" and it's perfect
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:49:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FloridaConfederate:
Rear night sights are useless on a rifle IMHO. You are focused so far out you never see them.



Straight from someone who has never used them...
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:50:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By FloridaConfederate:
Rear night sights are useless on a rifle IMHO. You are focused so far out you never see them.



the light on my back sights made my pupils constrict makeing everything darker, I just have the front sight on my 20" and it's perfect



Color your tritiums with a balck felt pen to dim them.
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