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5/28/2020 10:18:12 PM
Posted: 10/10/2004 12:03:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 12:15:46 PM EDT by Kaliburz]
Okay, maybe some of you have seen my thread on my AR pistol and the *issue* it had (aka bolt bouce, weak recoil spring).

Any how, some of you may be planning to order a Model 1 Sales pistol kit or plan to order their pistol recoil system & some of you might have seen the issues that this recoil system has ie-unreliable.  The key to the issues/problem, is the spring in the kit.

The spring provided is similar to a 1911 spring.  So, I ordered the heaviest Wolff 1911 long slide spring, the #1 for $9.00 and trimmed it to fit (appx. 7.0" long).  For more fitting details, read entire posting....

This was part one of the post.....
11:45am - I just installed the Wolff spring.......

The 1911 long slide Wolf spring arrived 11:20am.  Upon opening the package, I KNEW I had to cut it to fit.  The length of both springs (#1, #2) was over 12" long.  I would say 12 3/4" or 13" long.... I was in a hurry, so I didn't take pics or do a accurate measure.  THERE IS ENOUGH THERE FOR YOU TO PLAY WITH!!!!

Any how, the factory Model 1 spring is about 7.5" long.  Mine, used, is closer to 7".  With the original installed, no cap, it stuck out about 1.5-2" above the back of the buffer tube.  (The factory spring would not even send the cap flying if I unscrewed it.  It just sat there.)  I cut the new long slide spring at 8-8.5" long.  This gives about 3-3.5" sticking out of the back end.  Getting the unit together was "fun", but do-able.  The spring is now under compression all the time, like the rifle units.  The carrier, if I recall, could be pulled all the way back (I didn't try to lock it open).  The force to pull it was much greater then before, but not too excessive.

I guaged the force the spring had in a non scientific method.  With the hammer cocked, I took my thumb and pushed on the carrier through the ejection port to see how much force was required to move it.  I did the same on my full sized spring and buffered Cavalary Arms Cav 15.  The force was similar.  Got lucky I guess.  I didn't adjust the spring after install.

I will bring a set of cutters to trim the spring if needed, if it won't cycle.  I'm sure that it will be fine... (all based on the thumb test).....

I will go try this thing out this afternoon/evening.  Report on fuction to come this evening....

This is the next part....
Well, what can I say.  You will need a good set of cutters.....and a strong grip to cut it.  You might destroy a pair of cheap cutters since the spring is *good materal*.

IT WORKED!!!!



Revised fitting of spring

Well, I read the instructions on the Wolf 1911 long slide spring.  And it made sence.  It says to cut the spring enough so that it doesn't "bunch up", aka-compress solid.  That idea made sence.

The spring needed trimming out in the field.  But not because it could not eject.  It wouldn't hold open, as the the spring was too long the way I cut it originally.  I was fully compressing before the carrier was past the hold open.

This is what I did- and this method is much easier to do then "measure the spring" or "counting coils".  Trim the spring just enough so that you can pull the bolt/carrier back and engage the bolt hold open.  That is what I did and it seemed fine.  I'll admit that the spring might be compressed still, but there is enough *push* of the spring to fully close the carrier/bolt assembly.  This is a Wolff spring, so it should do much better then the spring w/ the kit.


I fired about 110 rounds through the pistol w/out a problem related to the spring.  Only issue was one dud round, put it in twice to fire, no good.  Primer issue.  I used Federal ammo (Lake City brassed) and that other Russian brand, the one w/ the bear on the box.  Running the pistol w/ that many rounds, the spring will still pop the cap off if you don't watch it.  It takes a push to get the cap on, which, in my opinion is good.



I recommend, if people order, to get two springs, maybe three.  I don't know how long the spring will last.  The spring was $9.00 each, plus shipping.  I guess this is a cheaper fix then modifing/making a new recoil system.

Now, we need someone else to confirm this by doing the same thing......

And more...

Originally Posted By kozmic:
Kaliburz:

First - congrats! I have been following all the threads on AR pistol builds hoping someone would figure this problem out.

I am about ready to purchase everything to build my AR pistol, but I was becoming discouraged with the buffer issues. Would you mind sharing where to purcahse the new spring you used. And do you have any type of part number?



I purchased it directly from Wolff springs.  Their site link
The spring part is a 1911 long slide spring.  Clock on "semi auto" on their page, then click on "Colt" and finally scroll down till you see the long side section.

The number is : 13301  
Description: 1911 Long Slide recoil spring #1 (the strongest, don't ask how many pounds, as Wolff them self state it can't be rated since it is a fit-in part).

I also ordered 13302 (2nd strongest, in case I had ejection issues.... no problem, so I have an extra slightly weaker spring....)



Also - aren't you using the Model 1 kit? If so, I am sure that the buffer assembly is the same on all of their pistols, could you share the static (that is, out of gun and non-compressed) spring length? I am sure that it would help us all in initially gauging ours.

Thanks,
Jason



Yes, it is a Model 1 Sales pistol kit.  It is a 10 or 11" barreled upper.

Well, the non-compressed length is a guess.  I never measured it before I tried the assembled weopon.  It's possible the stock spring became shorter the first time I took it out.  I would say about 7.5" possibly 8" static length.  IIRC, someone else said it was 7.5", as they measured their spring "new".

And the new Wolff spring, I fitted it by trimming just enough so that I could use the hold open.  I can't give you a lengh in inchs as of now (don't have pistol right now at the keyboard) plus, it might have shortened.  I could count the coils......

And last....[/]
Spring details.....


Okay, some of you want to know the length of the spring.  Mind you, this is a "used" condition of the spring, as of now, with 110 rounds through it.

Length: appx. 7"  closer to 6 13/16"
Portion sticking out of buffer tube w/ guide rod on, but w/out cap on: 1 1/2"

One might have to cut one or two coils off that length.  One variable to keep in mind is how much buffer tube is actually screwed into the lower.  Mine is about half, if not more.  Others could vary....

So, from my original spring, I cut off about 1 1/2" in the feild, as I orginally started w/ about 8-8 1/2".
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:35:04 PM EDT
bump
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:51:40 PM EDT
TIP: A Dremel or bench grinder or air cutoff tool will make quick and easy work of cutting springs.

Harbor Freight has a nifty 12V model that could be used for at range tuning.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 6:39:32 PM EDT
bump..... since there is a lot of talk about the pistol AR tubes

(I have a dremel, but it wasn't w/ me at the range.)
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 4:47:39 PM EDT
Tagged
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 12:35:34 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 12:47:40 PM EDT
i have one of the wolf springs mentioned, it is a spare, and unused


10 bucks shipped
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 1:13:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:


Any how, some of you may be planning to order a Model 1 Sales pistol kit



I doubt it.

Didn't you read the Darth Vader thread?

Darth Vader thread
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:52:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:36:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HABU:

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:


Any how, some of you may be planning to order a Model 1 Sales pistol kit



I doubt it.

Didn't you read the Darth Vader thread?

Darth Vader thread




Post was about M & A .....

Or is Model 1 owned by same?????  I didn't read all *43* pages...... sorry.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:04:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:

Originally Posted By HABU:

Originally Posted By Kaliburz:


Any how, some of you may be planning to order a Model 1 Sales pistol kit



I doubt it.

Didn't you read the Darth Vader thread?

Darth Vader thread




Post was about M & A .....

Or is Model 1 owned by same?????  I didn't read all *43* pages...... sorry.



I believe they are the same
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