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Posted: 6/12/2007 9:09:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2007 9:10:16 AM EST by HCRoadie]
Has anyone dealt with this company? Please let me know what you have found out. Who makes their parts, barrels, receivers, etc....
Thankx
HCRoadie
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 10:04:50 AM EST
Dont know who makes their stuff but they are a wonderful company.
Have built 6 rifles from their kits and had 1 problem. it was an out of spec charging handle. I called them and had a new one in 3 days.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 10:11:42 AM EST
Other than the HORRIBLE trigger they were OK. You get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 10:17:49 AM EST
E.R. Shaw barrels....good quality LPK.....great costomer service....give 'em a call, you'll get better answers to your question there.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 11:00:25 AM EST
I've heard that some of their parts are a bit "rough" but other wise function well.

I dont know first hand, I dont think I own anything from M1S
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 11:21:44 AM EST
I got a 16' A3 Hbar carbine with chrome lined bbl and chaimber. EVERYTHING I got was awesome. The upper was very clean, no scratches or machine marks on anything. I also ordered the cheapest rear iron sight so i would at least have some form of rear sight until i could get a nice one. Well, when i opened the box there it was a YHM folding rear iron sight In not sure weather they messed up and put the wrong one in there, or if when buyin an upper you get a better price on upgrading fetures? oh well, i aint complaining! I would definatly buy again from them. Nice people too, i called to get my tracking number because i lived in a apartment.

My ONLY complaint, and i dont really complain about it is the carbine handguards, mine kind of squeek and make a little noise.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 12:38:54 PM EST
built 2 rifles from them
have had zero malfunctions from either one, usually takes about a week or so to get my stuff
nice customer service and been in buisness around 20 years
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 12:43:29 PM EST
Go J&T or Delton and thank me later.

model1sales sucks big time, although they do ok from time to time.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 1:03:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2007 1:04:46 PM EST by M4builder]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Go J&T or Delton and thank me later.

model1sales sucks big time, although they do ok from time to time.

I calling >
From time to time? It seems there are quite a few satisfied customers here who have their products, including me.
What examples do you have that they "suck big time" to present?
Or are you just bashing a company you have no expirence with?

I've got some of their kits...and they use what some consider top-of-the line parts, like CMT receivers, Samson, YHM, and Midwest Industries rails,-- EOTech, YHM, M.I., KNS, A.R.M.S., and PRI sights,ect.ect. Do I need to go on?
So, present your specific issues with M1S, tell us what you know is wrong with them....or stop bashing them......gawd
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 1:15:56 PM EST
I have a few ARs I have built on M1S kits I like, and from what I understand they have good customer service, allthough I have never had to use it.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 1:20:26 PM EST
I've goten two uppers from them.

1st one would not get though a full mag until I polished the chamber and switched out the bolt carrier assembly.

2nd one they forgot to put the pins in the FSB

I would not buy anything from them that they have to assemble. Parts buy themselves I've had decent luck with.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 1:34:13 PM EST
I know ER Shaw makes their barrels and they are pretty good, I have the 24" SS bbl with a 1/9 twist, it is easily a 1 MOA rifle, I love it. I have put maybe 3K -4K rounds through it and was shooting clay pigeons at around 300 yards and was hitting them pretty good, I really like it and think it is well worth the money. I have the upper and love it
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 2:43:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4builder:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Go J&T or Delton and thank me later.

model1sales sucks big time, although they do ok from time to time.

I calling >
From time to time? It seems there are quite a few satisfied customers here who have their products, including me.
What examples do you have that they "suck big time" to present?
Or are you just bashing a company you have no expirence with?

I've got some of their kits...and they use what some consider top-of-the line parts, like CMT receivers, Samson, YHM, and Midwest Industries rails,-- EOTech, YHM, M.I., KNS, A.R.M.S., and PRI sights,ect.ect. Do I need to go on?
So, present your specific issues with M1S, tell us what you know is wrong with them....or stop bashing them......gawd


This was hashed out before your time here, but here goes.

I ordered a parts kit and a complete upper.

Parts kit had several pieces missing and the upper was a complete pos that I paid $605 for. It was purple, had canted sights, the charging handle was out of spec and would scratch the stock when pulled back. It jammed every rd also.

I call m1s and tell them about it. I had to throw a bitch fit to get them to refund me and i didn't get my shipping back at all. Only took 3 months.

They don't or didn't have quality stuff. Maybe that has changed but they are still fuckwads.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 2:59:07 PM EST
I went to order a 10 1/2" A3 upper from them for my DPMS pistol lower about two years ago and they said I would have to send them a copy of my SBR paperwork before they would sell me the "NFA" item. I told them it was a pistol lower and I could fax a copy of my sales reciept that states it is a pistol but they would hear no more. They outright refused.

They did a similar thing to me several years before that but I thougt I would just try em once more. I ordered a Bushmaster 10 1/2" upper after I hung up with model one. It came a few days later.

Gave em two chances. Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 3:19:50 PM EST
I put one carbine kit together and it ran 100% it was also a good looking rifle this was about 3 months ago
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 3:25:07 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 3:37:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By stremph:

Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.


You are here why?

You a douchebag also?

This place is made up of opinions.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 4:22:51 PM EST
Weak, crappy charging handles.

Sometimes out of spec lower parts, specifically bolt catches.

Horribly crappy receiver extension tubes.

Other than that, good stuff.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 4:59:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By stremph:

Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.



Wow, new member and you're already pullin out the SWEET TALK huh?
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 6:14:51 PM EST
Inconsistent parts quality and customer service.

Period.

The guys that like 'em love 'em and have no complaints.

The guys that have had problems on the other hand...

I had problems with 'em years ago and refuse to deal with them since.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 6:26:05 PM EST
they get a thumps up from me. picked up 2kits from them. all function well.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 7:02:51 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By azhammer:
height=8
Originally Posted By stremph:
height=8
Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.



Wow, new member and you're already pullin out the SWEET TALK huh?Been building AR's for 26 years dude. Been reading this board for as long as its been here. Learn some manners kid, its my opinion and its free to take or leave. It does not give you the right to insult people because you post twice a day.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 7:10:52 PM EST
I cant say anything bad about them. I dont know if they had a personell change there or what but they were extremely polite with me and shipped me a wonderful, complete upper receiver and BCG. I would buy from them again. Coincadently, every company puts out a turd every once in a while, even Colt. M1S might or might have in the past done it more often than others but I have not seen it yet in my dealings with them.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 8:17:46 PM EST
I know of two rifle built with Model 1 kits. One had the bolt snap at the cam pin after about 200 rounds and they refused to replace it. The other one had both taper pins walk out and the front sight started rotating around the barrel after less then 500 rounds. All this was a good 4-5 years ago, but it is enough, that I spend the extra cash to get to the next higher level in the AR game.
Link Posted: 6/12/2007 10:08:14 PM EST
Look, I got a 16inch A3 chromed out carbine upper from them, slapped it on a double star complete lower(with CAR stock, not M4), and put Dennys Super Duty BCA.............Its the best damn CAR iv ever shot. I wish i had pics up to prove it, but i think my CAR is nicer than some of the higher dollar rifles.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 1:27:20 AM EST
I used them for my first build. Gun went together great but had inconsistent feeding issues. I tried different ammo and different magazines - finally I gave up and called them.

I wish I had done it earlier. No BS, no blame - they said send it to them they will make it right.

I shipped it out on Tuesday, they got it on Thursday and shipped it back out on Friday - Tuesday I had my rifle. 1 full week turn around - cant beat that. They even called the day they sent the rifle out and let me know what they found, what they did and when I could expect my kit back. They addressed all my concerns. They replaced the upper receiver and set me up with M4 feedramps.

I recently noticed my charging handle was bent - called them up. No problems, we will send one right out - they even sent the whole assembly so I dont have to swap the latch out.

I ordered my second kit from them also, havent shot it yet.....but even if there are problems I have no reason to believe I wont get the same treatment.

Everyone has problems, its how your treated during the problem that matters. M1S gets a nod from me.

Heres my M1S pair - both are built on Superior Arms lowers and cost around $590 each total build price.



Link Posted: 6/13/2007 2:21:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By stremph:

Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.





While I disagree with that, it is funny as hell.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 2:36:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

/Snip/

I ordered a parts kit and a complete upper.

Parts kit had several pieces missing and the upper was a complete pos that I paid $605 for. It was purple, had canted sights, the charging handle was out of spec and would scratch the stock when pulled back. It jammed every rd also.

I call m1s and tell them about it. I had to throw a bitch fit to get them to refund me and i didn't get my shipping back at all. Only took 3 months.

They don't or didn't have quality stuff. Maybe that has changed but they are still fuckwads.


Well, that is a bad expirence. It seems things have changed there since your bad luck. It's too bad you are stuck with such a bad taste in your mouth over one bad deal that they did make right in the end-after all.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 7:20:33 AM EST
I don't know if this has any bearing on their customer service but....

Last Saturday, at the Dallas Market Hall show, I heard one of the Model 1 salespeople tell a customer that the owners moved their business to Whitewright, Texas (northeast of the Dallas metro area) to be closer to family.

Maybe (just guessing here) those previous customer service issues were related to either their former location/employees or the move itself.

All I bought from them was a $5.00 sling. It has yet to misfeed, explode, unravel or otherwise cause injury to animals or small children.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 7:46:19 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By M4builder:
height=8
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

/Snip/

I ordered a parts kit and a complete upper.

Parts kit had several pieces missing and the upper was a complete pos that I paid $605 for. It was purple, had canted sights, the charging handle was out of spec and would scratch the stock when pulled back. It jammed every rd also.

I call m1s and tell them about it. I had to throw a bitch fit to get them to refund me and i didn't get my shipping back at all. Only took 3 months.

They don't or didn't have quality stuff. Maybe that has changed but they are still fuckwads.


Well, that is a bad expirence. It seems things have changed there since your bad luck. It's too bad you are stuck with such a bad taste in your mouth over one bad deal that they did make right in the end-after all.


I have a M1S CAR upper in 6.8 SPC that is on a CMMG lower that is functioning fine, though it's not grouping like I would like yet (I'm still experimenting with ammo). After reading this forum, I'm scared that it will go nuclear in my safe at home any time now, wiping out the entire neighborhood and killing everyone and, most objectioinally, destroying or damaging my other guns.Should I be worried?
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 8:23:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By stefbo:
I know of two rifle built with Model 1 kits. One had the bolt snap at the cam pin after about 200 rounds and they refused to replace it. The other one had both taper pins walk out and the front sight started rotating around the barrel after less then 500 rounds. All this was a good 4-5 years ago, but it is enough, that I spend the extra cash to get to the next higher level in the AR game.


So did the gas tube just turn to jelly or something to let it spin around the barrel or what?
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 8:28:04 AM EST
I have bought a few parts from them (A3 upper receiver, barrel block, charging handle, etc) at various times and thus far everything showed up in a reasonable amount of time, was in spec and was as advertised.

Dawg
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 9:43:42 AM EST
As far as customer service goes I'd much rather take my chances with BOTACH.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 9:53:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
As far as customer service goes I'd much rather take my chances with BOTACH.


Link Posted: 6/13/2007 10:07:01 AM EST
I've only dealt with them once so that should tell you something.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 10:40:13 AM EST
Everytime I have dealt with them parts were quality and customer service was excellent.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 12:16:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By HCRoadie:
Has anyone dealt with this company? Please let me know what you have found out. Who makes their parts, barrels, receivers, etc....
Thankx
HCRoadie


I have not dealt directly with model1sales. I have purchased their parts from midwayusa.com. This is what happens when you have a lower receiver, a bunch of spare parts, and a credit card...



The lower receiver is a donor from a pre-ban Olympic Arms 20". (No this is not blasphemy, I still have the entire 20" upper intact.) The green furniture is from RRA and Ergo grip.



Model1sales provided the M-4 contour barrel with FSB, and upper receiver only. All other parts were spares from the tool box.



This is a picture of the scrape on the barrel, yes caused by me. However, this was a light drag across aluminum, and it took the phosphate finish right off the barrel. I have noticed that the phosphate on the upper receiver is thin as well. (Forgive the food drippings. I have an 11 month old.)



I had to open up both of the assembly pin holes on the upper receiver to mate it to my Oly lower. This is possibly an Oly problem, as I have had other uppers that were too tight to fit on my Oly as well.

I forgot to take a picture of the bayonet lug, although it wouldn't show you the problem if I did. The bayo lug was so badly formed that I had to grind it flat and cold blue it to fit the Tdi light mount/bipod mount on it. I also had to open up the slot in the upper for the barrel indexing pin, as the FSB had a bit of a lean to the left.

My humble opinion.....

This is a great field rifle. It doesn't have the greatest finish in the world, but it is functional. I have about 300 rounds through it without a hiccup. It is not my primary rifle, but it gives my wife something to shoot when I drag her to the range. I didn't walk into this project assuming I was just going to assemble parts, so it didn't bother me to have to do a little grinding and fitting to make it right. Even with the required grinding and fitting, it has not failed to function in any way. I guess, if you want a beauty contest winner, spend a lot more money and get BIG name parts. If you want a functional weapon on a budget, Model1sales is for you.

P.S. - Unrelated to this build, I purchased a model1sales tactical latch charging handle for another rifle. I bent the charging handle sideways inside of a week. I didn't return it to model1sales for the simple reason that, if it was that poorly made the first time, I didn't want to try another one. I removed the tac-latch, broke the charging handle in half to prevent accidental use, and threw the charging handle in the trash. Mind you I broke the charging handle in half with no more than bending it with bare hands, no vise or pliers involved. I'm not that strong, it was that weak.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 1:21:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2007 1:23:55 PM EST by DM1975]
This is my Model 1 Sales build since we are showing them off. Not one problem at all. Finish was rock solid on the upper, stainless on the barrel was superb, and the bolt carrier key was posativly staked down to the carrier. Everything was perfect. And it shoots 1/4 MOA.











Finished results... I refinished and added a new float tube but it was all rock solid before.
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 5:28:32 AM EST
M1S IS EXCELLENT
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 6:49:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
This is my Model 1 Sales build since we are showing them off. Not one problem at all. Finish was rock solid on the upper, stainless on the barrel was superb, and the bolt carrier key was posativly staked down to the carrier. Everything was perfect. And it shoots 1/4 MOA.

That is a very nice rifle. Looks like you got lucky with M1S. None of the 3 BCGs I received from them were staked at all.
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 7:50:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By 87gn:
That is a very nice rifle. Looks like you got lucky with M1S. None of the 3 BCGs I received from them were staked at all.

Just checked- all of mine are side staked quite well.
I wonder what has changed there, and when? It appears that the quality issues mentioned in this thread come from the past....but how far back? When did they fix the QC issues? Or is it a vendor problem they have, and the issues could resurface in the next shipment? ....And how many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop? The world may never know.
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 8:00:00 AM EST
All this info has been hashed out here over the last few years and it always comes down to the overall determination that they once sucked pretty bad but now have good parts and good customer service, aside from their lower parts kits. And there is always the nay sayers that state a "friend of a friend of a friend say they suck so I wont buy them" or "I had a bad experience with them humpteen years ago so they must still suck" Either way I would buy from them again.
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 10:44:59 AM EST
I say call J&T. My .02.
Link Posted: 6/14/2007 11:00:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
All this info has been hashed out here over the last few years and it always comes down to the overall determination that they once sucked pretty bad but now have good parts and good customer service, aside from their lower parts kits. And there is always the nay sayers that state a "friend of a friend of a friend say they suck so I wont buy them" or "I had a bad experience with them humpteen years ago so they must still suck" Either way I would buy from them again.


Well, my orders were in December and February, so they aren't exactly ancient history.

I'll take a picture of my bent charging handle when I get home.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 12:15:25 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Misterbill:
height=8
Originally Posted By azhammer:
height=8
Originally Posted By stremph:
height=8
Originally Posted By Misterbill:
Screw them, tell your friends they suck please.


No can do. Your experience with them is nothing like MY experience with them, which has been quite good.

Comments like that are precisely why I consider Arfcom to be the douchebag nexus of the internet.



Wow, new member and you're already pullin out the SWEET TALK huh?his


Oh, I've got my manners down pat, I just chose not to use them in this instance. I can respect where you're coming from, but my main point was that I'm not going to make recommendations to friends who might be thinking about building ARs based off of "Some guy on the internet got a bent charging handle from M1S," regardless of whether it was your 1st build or your 20th. I certainly took comments like that into consideration while shopping for kits (the Build-it-Yourself forum was of great use to this end), but I read far more positives than negatives regarding both quality and customer service, and I'm more than pleased with my decision.

Regarding the "douchebag" comment - perhaps it wasn't the right word, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that all Arfcommers are DBs. Many are helpful, polite, and some really know their shit. But in lurking the forums, I've really gotten the sense that a large portion of posts here center on the bashing of others' equipment with little to back it up, aside from pure snobbery. If folks who engage in that aren't douchebags, they're certainly boobs, doofs, dinguses, buttnuggets, blowhards, or whatever term you feel fits best.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 1:21:44 AM EST
It seems like the people who Build rifles have a fine relationship with M1S, and those who want to push the pins through upper and lower "assemblies" don't. I never had a single problem with M1S for 15 years buying parts and putting them together. My only problem surfaced last year when I got lazy and bought an assembled CMP type upper half. I sent it back, got it back, it still wasn't right and I finally did what I should've did in the first place, bought the tools and put it together my damn self! Black Rifle Disease never goes away, it only gets worse. Buy the tools, buy the parts, and do it yourself! And stop hatin' on M1S
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 1:55:57 AM EST
I have heard and read enough negative feedback on them that I would not risk buying something they built or assembled. The only thing I bought from them is an MI rail, in which they had no part other than selling it. I can't say much about their customer service other than the gentleman who sold me the rails was polite.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 6:46:32 AM EST
I have a Dissy upper from them, its works great/flawless. The only issue that i had was the gas key was not staked enough so it came loose after a few hundred rounds or so, after i fixed that i have not had any problums with it, i would buy from them again for a future build.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 1:58:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By jinmplss:
I have a Dissy upper from them, its works great/flawless. The only issue that i had was the gas key was not staked enough so it came loose after a few hundred rounds or so, after i fixed that i have not had any problums with it, i would buy from them again for a future build.


I wouldn't exactly call that "flawless" then...

Here is my charging handle. I've had other problems but this is the only M1S part I have left.



Link Posted: 6/16/2007 2:19:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By 87gn:
Here is my charging handle. I've had other problems but this is the only M1S part I have left.

azbattlerifles.com/images/m1s.JPG

azbattlerifles.com/images/m1s2.JPG


Probably a cheap, import, cast from Nam-era M113s left behind, non-heat-treated or worse.
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 2:51:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Beeel:
It seems like the people who Build rifles have a fine relationship with M1S, and those who want to push the pins through upper and lower "assemblies" don't. I never had a single problem with M1S for 15 years buying parts and putting them together. My only problem surfaced last year when I got lazy and bought an assembled CMP type upper half. I sent it back, got it back, it still wasn't right and I finally did what I should've did in the first place, bought the tools and put it together my damn self! Black Rifle Disease never goes away, it only gets worse. Buy the tools, buy the parts, and do it yourself! And stop hatin' on M1S


So they prety much suck, except as a distributor for things other people have made? That certainly seems to be what your saying.

We've had several stories of real people having real problems with their parts.
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