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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 4/11/2006 3:31:51 PM EST
Hey everyone, YES, post #2, I have been lurking for a bit...

Anyhow, I was given a Matech BUIS today in conjunction with the statement that it's the total HEAT, and you could kill bad guys out to 600m. Keeping in mind that he kills bad guys for a living, I wondered (quietly) to myself, "who in their right mind is going to try to engage bad guys from so far away, with an M4?" and, "why is that a useful feature for me (civilian)?"

Then, it got me thinking.....

Being familiar with the Ammo Oracle, I ask myself how a sight manufacturer can put elevations on Rear Sight when by-and-large they don't know your specific Twist Ratio, Bullet Type, and Barrel Length??

When you have an A2 Upper on an 16"/14.5" barrel, the numbers on the dial are incorrect, right?? Do those stamped #'s have any relevance? Doesn't the 8/3 really mean 800m/300m, 8 being a complete twist and 3 being basically zero(ed)??

Somebody help me out, because I was a Parachute Rigger, none of this was ever explained to me and I am having to figure this out on my own....


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:51:54 PM EST
I'm not really sure about this, but I read on this site that this BUIS is only marketed to the military and, therefore, the BUIS is intended for 1:7 muzzles, most likely on flat-top M4s. The thread I read also indicated that anyone owning a Matech BUIS was probably in the possession of stolen property.

In any case, soldiers and Marines are trained, even at the most basic level, to shoot at targets at 300 to 500 meters with consistent success. So, it is not at all unrealistic to be able to repeatedly hit targets at those ranges. In my opinion, though, the Matech BUIS seems like it possesses unnecessary features.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:07:24 PM EST by ParaRigger]

Well, disregard the first half of my post then, I never liked the thing anyway............

In my defence, Google is showing them for sale lotta places........

I should elaborate a little on my question,

When you look at the dial on a Rear sight for an M16A2 there is a Z for zeroing (right?), but that's a feature that doesn't carry over to the detachable handle for the M4,or any other sight supposedly intended for the 1/7 shorter barrel, you just zero on the 6/3.

So does that mean I should jusr disregard thgose "settings"?

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:59:09 PM EST
It is set for one trajectory. This could be 14.5 with M855 or 20, or they might have split the difference.

Personally I don't know why anyone bothers with elevation adjustable sights--if its far enough out there that I need to adjust, I probably can't see it with the unaided eye anyway.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:46:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:47:42 PM EST by majg1234]
don't know much about how twist affects trajectory( i think it doesn't but is a factor in bullet selection) but i can routinely (regularly) hit targets out to and beyond 300m with my A2 sighted rifles,have recently built 3 flattop m4's with eotech 552's on them and have only shot @100m but am able to hit eggs @ that range 95% of the time.the last qualification I did in the Army 3 yrs ago was able to hit 300-400 meter pop ups with regular A2 m16's.My experiance with shorter barreled pistols (snubnose) is that they shoot as well as long barrels but it takes a lot more skill/practice.So 600m targets with an M4 doesn't seem impossible to me. my 2 cents
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:53:42 AM EST
I favor the Mil-type BUIS. Low-profile, quick, simple to use. It can be used with a carbine or a rifle (flattopds, obviously), having two methods of zeroing. Also has a handy range adjusting lever. I suspect someone will eventually offer these commercially after everyone in the military gets theirs

I'm sure you could adjust this sight from standard battle-setting to 600 & put rounds in the vicinity of your intentions quicker than most other iron sights.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:21:34 AM EST
How silly am I? I have a matech waiting to go on a RRA 9mm.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:01:20 AM EST
The same sight, whether the Matech BUIS, or the removeable A4 carry handle is used on both the M4 and the M16A4. The only difference is zeroing. On the M16A4, the BUIS is set to the half notch line between the 300 and 400 meter marks, on the M4 it stays on 300 meters. The removeable carry handle is set two clicks from the 6/3 line, on the little z. On the M4, it stays on 6/3.
I'm pretty sure i'ts just a rough estimate and when fired on a KD range, there would be some difference from POA and POI because it's trying to be used for both rifle and carbine.
Since hte Matech is made for the military it's going to be be designed with the 1/7 twist barrel, firing the M855 round. Nothing else.
As to why you'd try and shoot at someone 600 meters away with just an M4. Well, if they are shooting at you and that's all you have, especially in a pretty open area, would you shoot back, or just say that it was too far to even try? I'd at least try to keep their heads down.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 5:54:42 AM EST
I guess what is getting to me is that in the 6 years i was in the Army, I was never once told the circumtances in which i would adjust the rear sight elevation (with exception to 'Z' to '8/3', M16A2 w/ my first unit), we had M4s at my last unit and I never figured out why we didn't adjust the elev. knob after zeroing.

Granted, I was not infantry, and perhaps I was never expected to do more than man a fighting postion, but when we engaged 'fast freddie' we were told to 'aim a little low' (because we zeroed for 300m). I never used the large aprature until using M4s either.

the Matech seems more appropriate as BUIS for a long range precision rifle or a flattop M16, not an M4, and I wonder what the designers intended....

Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:50:30 AM EST
Even in Infantry, I've never really used the adjustable feature either. The BUIS is just set up the same as the standard, just in case you ever do decide to set it for that far shot I guess. To sort of cover every possibility. If you KNEW that the target was at whatever distance, AND had time to adjust the sight, it would make sense. Sort of like the sights on SAW and M240's. They are zeroed and kept on that setting. No time, even on the qual range, to keep setting them for hte different ranges that targets appear.


"The fixed A2 sights were that way, and the carry handle sights are that way, so the BUIS will be that way too."

The hole is the same as the small one on the carry handle, and the only time I use the large hole is when firing with a pro-mask on, and sometimes during a night fire.
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