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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/8/2005 1:24:59 PM EDT
I am from Germany and we some weird regulations regarding ammo. For example there has to be a sign of which calibre the round is, either by headstamp, or by case-print (which rules out the civilian use of 9mm NATO ammo, for example ).
How about the M193 ammo types? Do they have a "5.56" on the case, or is it just lotNr and factory (which is what is stamped on it, IIRC).

Regards,
Matt
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:34:38 PM EDT
The current M193 and M855 headstamps have the NATO symbol at 12 o'clock, the factory (LC for Lake City, for example) at 7 o'clock, and the year of manufacture of the case (04, for example) at 5 o'clock.

US milspec ammo does not normally have a caliber indication on the case. That is usually left to the packaging, along with the manufacturing lot number.

US commercial ammo will normally have caliber indicated. Federal Cartridge headstamps will usually have "FC" and "223 REM", Remington UMC will have "UMC" and "223 REM", etc.

Greetings to you and all ARFCOM members in Deutschland.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:37:21 PM EDT
Well it really depends on what you buy.

If you buy the winchester Q3131A it will have W C C then 2 number for the year.

If you buy the Federal American Eagle it may have the caliber on it.

The milspec stuff just has some letter and numbers on it not generally the caliber.

Just get a little punch set and print it on each case
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 5:08:34 AM EDT
Thanks guys for the reply, and thanks Joe for the greetings :)

Yeah Federal AE has the calibre stamped on it, like other commercial ammos also. Sadly there is no military .223 available in Germany with a calibre print on it. 7.62 surplus usually has the calibre printed on the side of the case to conform with our regulations...

No M193 spec for me then ... will have to stick with 5.56 DAG which is loaded pretty hot also.

Best regards!
Matt
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 8:02:19 PM EDT
If the bullet is a NATO round, it has a circle with a cross in the middle on the headstamp.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 2:21:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keiler:
Thanks guys for the reply, and thanks Joe for the greetings :)

Yeah Federal AE has the calibre stamped on it, like other commercial ammos also. Sadly there is no military .223 available in Germany with a calibre print on it. 7.62 surplus usually has the calibre printed on the side of the case to conform with our regulations...

No M193 spec for me then ... will have to stick with 5.56 DAG which is loaded pretty hot also.

Best regards!
Matt



Matt, what is DAG?

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:40:49 AM EDT
Joe,

DAG is short for Dynamit Nobel AG, a german ammunition and explosives manufacturer. They make ammo for the military, police and civilian customers. Its the ammo I zeroed my rifle for, unfortunately its pretty expensive here (like all ammos in Germany ), but its loaded def. hotter than other civilian loads, and shoots plenty accurate for a FMJ (1,2-1,5MOA).

Regards!
Matt
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:05:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:00:01 PM EDT
Thanks, Matt.

Seems to me I have shot some pistol rounds of that brand, some time ago. Yes, my recollection was it was pretty hot stuff.

If that's typical of that manufacturer, then I believe you are doing OK if that is what you can get.

Joe


Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:28:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rch:
If the bullet is a NATO round, it has a circle with a cross in the middle on the headstamp.



No.



Can you guess what grain round this had at the neck?


Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:45:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 8:46:47 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By Keiler:
Thanks guys for the reply, and thanks Joe for the greetings :)

Yeah Federal AE has the calibre stamped on it, like other commercial ammos also. Sadly there is no military .223 available in Germany with a calibre print on it. 7.62 surplus usually has the calibre printed on the side of the case to conform with our regulations...

No M193 spec for me then ... will have to stick with 5.56 DAG which is loaded pretty hot also.

Best regards!
Matt



Sometimes Federal AE has the Nato brass, the picture I posted above is from a box of AE .223. I have now bought two cases with the nato stamping on .223 ammo.

Below is Q3131A
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:44:04 AM EDT
Thanks!

Well if AE has brass with no calibre designation on it (either by stamp or print) it cannot be sold in Germany.
A big countrywide gunstore had a ****load of IMI M193 a year ago, but couldnt sell any of it (at least not to sportsshooters/hunters) because IMI missed to print the cal on it (as it was demanded). German 5.56 fans were drooling since it also was a comparatively cheap offer they had, and an enrichment to the rather dry .223/5.56 market we have here. We have all the commercial stuffs, but nothing to really cheer about or long to buy (except my DAG 5.56, that is , I love it).

It all went back, nothing sold.

Matt
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:40:17 AM EDT
Just out of curiousity, why did the German govt specify that ammo had to have caliber info on the round?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:31:41 PM EDT
Good question.
One guess is that our gubermint doesnt think we are smart enough to buy the right ammo or something .. as if I went to the shooting range with a 3 gallon bucket full of .223, .222, 5.6x50 and whatnot, grabbing blindly into it to load up my mags.
Really no idea what this restriction is about. Safety for reloaders maybe...
I will try to find info, never thought about it as a negative thing until I tried to get other ammos than we have here .

Regards!
Matt
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:49:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keiler:
Good question.
One guess is that our gubermint doesnt think we are smart enough to buy the right ammo or something .. as if I went to the shooting range with a 3 gallon bucket full of .223, .222, 5.6x50 and whatnot, grabbing blindly into it to load up my mags.

Regards!
Matt



I could not keep me from laughing when i was reading this
I thought we have strange laws here in sweden but that was the worst i ever heard about.

Magnus
(Sweden)
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:56:54 AM EDT
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