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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/25/2005 9:13:49 PM EDT
Is there any way to lighten the trigger pull on AR's?
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 9:24:41 PM EDT
The guranteed way is to get an adjustable 2 stage trigger from RRA, Bushmaster, and the like.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 9:28:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2005 9:29:09 PM EDT by TylerM_8]
How do the two stage triggers work? From what I understand it is a 3.5 lb. pull on 1st stage and a 1 lb. letoff for 2nd stage. Does this mean it fires when you release the trigger instead of when you pull the trigger?
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 10:50:31 PM EDT
No, it’s kind of a muscle training trick. The first stage, or 'take-up,' is 3 - 4.5 lbs, depending on settings. Then the second stage breaks at a set point more than that, usually 1 lb (again, settings). The second stage on my rifle breaks with less than 1/10th of a mm of movment. The end result is, the actual firing of the weapon feels like it only takes 1lb, and its incredibly 'clean' no mushy feeling at all other than the take-up of the first stage.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 11:43:17 PM EDT
i did the 15 minute trigger job(search for it) and it pretty much turned my stock bushmaster trigger into a lighter two stage(i dont think it was supposed to do that). First stage is 5lbs then it breaks at 3 more lbs. It has done me well at the range
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:15:49 AM EDT
So is it all done in one single pull and it is lighter?
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 7:59:54 AM EDT
I thought two stage triggers had reliability problems. Everyone says it is great for the range, but they wouldn't take it to battle.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 8:09:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 10:30:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By bigcraig79:
I thought two stage triggers had reliability problems. Everyone says it is great for the range, but they wouldn't take it to battle.




I have never had an issue with any of my two stage triggers. This is not to say that it doesn't happen.



C4



+1 ...This including some very exhaustive training...


damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 10:37:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 10:43:21 AM EDT
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 10:55:50 AM EDT
I've never found anything wrong with a box stock AR15 rifle at all. I'm just a weirdo I suppose.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 11:54:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 11:59:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



The JP springs are DEFINITELY the way to go for a better / lighter stock trigger.

IMHO, they don't work very well with the RRA 2-stage. I ended up putting the regular springs back in mine. YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:41:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcraig79:
I thought two stage triggers had reliability problems. Everyone says it is great for the range, but they wouldn't take it to battle.



AGNTSA!!!!!!!!!!

Every USGI rifle from the Krag to the M14 and ALL military Mausers had two stage triggers. They are NOT inherently unreliable.

SOME AR two stage triggers have adjustments that MAY move someday. The only known unreliable two stage is Bushmaster's.

The Rock River two stage has no adjustments to go out of whack and it is as reliable as an anvil.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:42:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I've never found anything wrong with a box stock AR15 rifle at all. I'm just a weirdo I suppose.



Maybe you haven't shot a rifle with a quality two stage, then. Night and day.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:51:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



The JP springs are DEFINITELY the way to go for a better / lighter stock trigger.

IMHO, they don't work very well with the RRA 2-stage. I ended up putting the regular springs back in mine. YMMV.



Where can I find JP springs?
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:04:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TylerM_8:

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



The JP springs are DEFINITELY the way to go for a better / lighter stock trigger.

IMHO, they don't work very well with the RRA 2-stage. I ended up putting the regular springs back in mine. YMMV.



Where can I find JP springs?



Watch out using those lighter springs... You stand a chance of having light primer strikes and that could be fatal... If your going to play around with lighter springs and still use original AR FCG's, you should trim off the back top hook of the stock hammer... That will lighten up the hammer and make it more reliable with those lighter springs...
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:14:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By markm:
I've never found anything wrong with a box stock AR15 rifle at all. I'm just a weirdo I suppose.




There is nothing wrong with it. 2 Stage triggers are just an enhancement (like FF rails, optics, etc).


C4



It makes a very nice enhancement to the let-off... Ive never encountered a problem with my 2-stage triggers but have read about one or two others that did, and IIRC, the problems were the loss of the second stage... It makes me wonder if the 2-stage triggers that lost the second stage were just "over tuning" issues...
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TylerM_8:

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



The JP springs are DEFINITELY the way to go for a better / lighter stock trigger.

IMHO, they don't work very well with the RRA 2-stage. I ended up putting the regular springs back in mine. YMMV.



Where can I find JP springs?



www.jprifles.com

or

www.brownells.com

and to address the comment on reliability......

The JP "yellow" springs have proven utterly reliable over many thousands of rounds of COMMERCIAL ammunition. If you are using mil-surp, or mil-spec ammunition, you may experience light primer strikes due to the harder primers.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 1:50:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 1:55:10 PM EDT by Couch-Commando]
If you want to have a single stage rather than a double stage, try the accuracy speaks trigger. I've heard they're very reliable. I should be getting mine soon.

edited for grammatical errors.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:19:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
If you want to have a single stage rather than a double stage, try the accuracy speaks trigger. I've heard they're very reliable. I should be getting mine soon.

edited for grammatical errors.



Hey C-C, let us know how that accuracy speaks trigger works out for you, ive been wanting to try one for myself but havnt gotten around to ordering one
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:57:41 PM EDT
I did the "15 minute trigger job" to one of my rifles and it works fine at the range with my reloaded ammo. But, the hammer strike is much lighter and I would not be suprised if it wasn't reliable with hard primers.

My other rifle sports the WOA tuned RRA 2 stage NM. I had my RRA for 5-6 months before getting it tuned and now must say that WOA tuning is definately the way to go. I plan to buy a WOA tuned RRA to replace the "15 minute trigger" in my other rifle. And for the money (about $115) the WOA tuned RRA will probably be very hard to beat!!!
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 4:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 4:03:20 PM EDT by ALAN308]

and to address the comment on reliability......

The JP "yellow" springs have proven utterly reliable over many thousands of rounds of COMMERCIAL ammunition. .



Not in my rifle. Yellow spring failed to ignite Federal AE in mine and it hit the trash. Bushmaster spring and zero failures.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 4:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2005 4:54:26 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By ALAN308:

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

and to address the comment on reliability......

The JP "yellow" springs have proven utterly reliable over many thousands of rounds of COMMERCIAL ammunition.





Not in my rifle. Yellow spring failed to ignite Federal AE in mine and it hit the trash. Bushmaster spring and zero failures.



Your not the only one Allen, If you dont use the proper combinations with the lighter spring modifications, you can and will have light primer strikes... No matter what ammunition you use...
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 5:32:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2005 6:12:05 AM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



My advise would be, to avoid light primer strikes when using stock FCG's, modify your stock hammer or use the J P Enterprises hammer... It is 36% lighter than the standard hammer for faster ignition, adds a crisper trigger pull and it works great with the standard trigger group...

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:48:16 AM EDT
I have a JP trigger & hammer with yellow springs in one of my ARs. No light strikes or failures to fire on any .223 ammo I've used including Wolf, SA surplus M193, Q3131/Q3131A, or Win, Fed, Rem, USA, UMC, AE, or BH. I do have the light JP hammer, so maybe you do have to cut the tail off to make them work with a stock hammer.

I did have trouble with light strikes using my Ciener kit. Almost 100% failure rate. So I put the stock hammer spring back in but left the yellow trigger spring. Pull went up from 2-2.5lbs to more like 4-4.5lbs (approximately--measured with a cheap fish scale). I didn't have any trouble, but the 15-minute trigger job specifically says not to use a reduced trigger spring without also reducing the hammer spring.

One of my other ARs has a local gunsmith's trigger job and as far as I can tell he did the 15-minute trigger job except he bent instead of clipped the springs. Pull measures around 4-4.5lbs on that one too and I've had no light strikes with it either.

IIRC both of those ARs were in the 8-9lb range out of the box. My newest one is closer to 10lbs and it's going to get a 15-minute trigger job soon. If I'm not happy with that then I'll try a WOA tuned RRA. My dad has a non-tuned RRA and it's in the 5.5lb range so it's lighter than his stock one and he's happy but the stages are balanced with almost all the weight on the second stage so it doesn't really feel like a 2-stage.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 10:19:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TylerM_8:
Is there any way to lighten the trigger pull on AR's?




2 words --- "Accuracy Speaks"

Link Posted: 7/27/2005 12:08:11 PM EDT
No need for a aftermarket trigger on a Working gun. if it's just for play, have at it. Just cause ya have one and it works fine, don't fool yourself into thinking it's reliable. Talk to trainers who see Hundreds and hundreds od guns every year. They keep track of the problems that crop up. and guess what. Aftermarket triggers are high on the list of things that don't work reliable.

if you what to be a better shooter. go shoot more. don't try to Buy more skill. The price of an aftermarket trigger would give you more ammo and more trigger time to improve on your skill. Hell, I've personaly seen two guns go down in 3 classes just because of it. and I'm sure those shooters said the same thing, that "their trigger is way reliable" just before it went belly up. Reliabliltiy is a funny thing, you only have to have 1 problem 1 time in order to loose it, and you don't get the luxury of deciding when that failure is gonna be.

Your gun, your choice

just my $.02 from a guy who's ran stock triggers in all his guns for many years.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 12:37:56 PM EDT
I just got an Accuracy Speaks trigger installed in for my AR/MRP. I like it. Much crisper than the stock trigger.

I have a KAC two-stage trigger in a bag around here somewhere. I thought it was way too light but maybe I should try it again.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:18:36 AM EDT
Is there any way to weaken the stock trigger for a lighter pull?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:24:27 AM EDT
15 Minute Trigger Job
This shows one way to modify the springs. My local 'smith bent the hammer spring legs instead of cutting one off. If you don't want to bend/cut the springs you can buy the "yellow springs" from JP, which are reduced power.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:32:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



My advise would be, to avoid light primer strikes when using stock FCG's, modify your stock hammer or use the J P Enterprises hammer... It is 36% lighter than the standard hammer for faster ignition, adds a crisper trigger pull and it works great with the standard trigger group...

uploadx.net/file/?id=qdH2lw==


I use the Colt version of that hammer in a couple of my rigs. Here's a pic:

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:59:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By rob78:
I'm thinking of getting the yellow spring kits from brownells for my RR 2-stage trigger (unless I can find them cheaper on the EE). Hopefully I won't run into any problems (light primer strikes, etc).



My advise would be, to avoid light primer strikes when using stock FCG's, modify your stock hammer or use the J P Enterprises hammer... It is 36% lighter than the standard hammer for faster ignition, adds a crisper trigger pull and it works great with the standard trigger group...

uploadx.net/file/?id=qdH2lw==


I use the Colt version of that hammer in a couple of my rigs. Here's a pic:

home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/M4_Trigger.JPG



That is the exactly what I'm looking for to replace the JARD in my COLT... Do you know where I can find that type match grade hammer and trigger with the .169 pin holes?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:36:45 AM EDT
As a matter of fact I do

The stock number for Colt's upgrade trigger is SPK94774. It is the same trigger that's in the Colt CR6724 Accurized Rifle. You can buy the entire upgraded FCG (hammer, trigger, pins, and springs) for $115.00 at SAW HERE
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:44:55 AM EDT
CJan_NH, Thank you I never thought to look at SAW's website...

Well, im off to place my order
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:37:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 12:42:04 AM EDT by luckypunk]
CJan_NH

I think I have fondled one of these....it is a light single stage yes? any idea how light? Any fitting?

BTW.

Don't everyone else go and buy them all before I get mine!!!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:17:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
CJan_NH

I think I have fondled one of these....it is a light single stage yes? any idea how light? Any fitting?

BTW.

Don't everyone else go and buy them all before I get mine!!!


Mine are about 4.5#, according to the fish scale I used to measure them. I have no idea how accurate the fish scale is, but hopefully it's not too far off

There is no fitting required-the parts will drop right in. It should be noted that these parts have the exact same geometry as stock parts, so if you are looking for a glass rod crisp single stage then I'd suggest an Accuracy Speaks.

Colt's comp trigger is a good upgrade over stock, but it's still not as good as a full blown match trigger in terms of performance. Colt designed this kit for a lighter pull, faster lockup etc without (supposedly) sacrificing field reliability.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:48:28 AM EDT
Get a Accuracy Speaks Fire Control Group & be done with it....., Their awesome!!!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:34:28 PM EDT
15 minute trigger job made mine really nice never had a problem after 1000 rounds.
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