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Knights URX II install.......doing it the hard way (revisiting the project 4/9 update) (Page 6 of 6)
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Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:
Thats great work. Love the play by play pictures. I have a secret fascination with CNCs, but no place local to learn them or even watch them in action. You too? I'm left with this and Gun_Crank's thread. Well and i guess YouTube. Well and the fact i would like one of these wrenches when they are done. I'm waiting on my SBR stamp to come back then i want to finish the build with a URX II rail. |
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.” Thomas Jefferson
"Show a prisoner the world and he will still only see the bars."
"Show a prisoner the world and he will still only see the bars."
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Originally Posted By SOFgearGuy:
Originally Posted By SOFgearGuy:
For the engineers out there, I have a stump the dummy type question :) Say, for example, I were to install the nut without the use of a wrench, and instead used linear blows by dead-weight to tighten the nut. So - I was able to hand tighten the nut, and then from that position I was able to tighten it about 1 inch of travel in a circular path. What would you calculate the torque to have been that caused the nut to travel 1 inch on it's edge? This is my problem...I have the nut on by using a punch and hammer, but I was only able to "drive" the nut around about an inch...so was this enough torque? (plus somebody said 30 lbs was enough, but the manual says 75!) hmmmm mathcad? matlab ? anybody out there have an idea? Forget it - I did a practical example....loosen a tire stud nut, made a mark - hand tightened it, then adjusted it with a torque wrench. Since the diameter of the studd nut is similar to the URX rail nut, 1 inch of travel is well passed 50 ft lbs of torque :) It is not just the diameter, but also the thread pitch, and frictional forces, that determine what degree of movement occures at a given torque value. My guess is that you are ok anyway. |
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Couple questions/suggestions on the setup.
But, before I give them let me say that the end result looks Great, and that's what you're really after isn't it? Is the bios battery dead on the CNC? I'm not familiar with B-port cnc's at all. I had a machine with a dead bios battery, and I would have to reset the parameters every time. 45 minutes and a $15 battery from the computer store and I never had to do it again. You may be able to get the diagram from Hardinge. When tightening the tools, it is not necessary to "ape on it". Make sure there is no chips in the collet or inside the tool holder. I usually go about a half a grunt and my face never turns red. It has been a long time since I've had one pull out on me. You could put those cutters a bit deeper into the tool holders. The less you have hanging out the better. Make sure you have enough room for your collet to clear anything. Don't tighten the part like a mofo. You are literally putting thousands of pounds of force on that part. I'll bet if you ran an indicator across the top of that stock. it is probably bowed .005" to .010" As a machinist this was the hardest lesson for me to learn. When I use the stock vise handle, I usually over tighten the part. I purchased three aftermarket vise handles, to keep from crushing the parts I make. Each one serves a different purpose. I am working on the hows and whys of each. I'll post them in my thread when I get the rest of the picts taken. I rarely use the stock Kurt handle anymore. I'm about 50/50 between the two hole SPI and the Kurt dork-handle. 
Does your coolant stink? It looks a bit discolored. I am running a part right now that has a similar shape to it. 
I only have about .050" to .100" of extra material around the entire part. It makes it easier to rip around the outside and not have to make a full cutter width pass, where the chips collect in the channel and get re-cut. The second setup is held in "soft jaws", again so I can rip the material off the backside. If I can't order the material the right size, I'll usually stand it on end and run my face mill down one side, to get it close. I hope this stuff helps you make them a bit faster, it looks like you've got a few of them sold. And again. Those parts look nice. I hope your not giving them away. 
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How viable is the "right of self-defense" if you must first beg governments permission to defend your life with a gun?
I don't really have anything to update with  I ended up making a handful out of 4140 pre-hardened steel. They didn't come out quite as nice as the A2 ones in terms of surface finish, but they were pretty darn good. I just graduated undergrad and started working full time for a defense contractor, so I had to move 700 miles away from the shop I was doing all my work in, so I'll probably only get to dabble here and there with machining projects around the holidays when I go home or until I can get a new shop lined up. |
"Now see, I just respond to this sort of stuff by striking the keyboard repeatedly with my genitals and hollering really loud." - Swindle1984
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Originally Posted By unclemoak:
I don't really have anything to update with
I ended up making a handful out of 4140 pre-hardened steel. They didn't come out quite as nice as the A2 ones in terms of surface finish, but they were pretty darn good. I just graduated undergrad and started working full time for a defense contractor, so I had to move 700 miles away from the shop I was doing all my work in, so I'll probably only get to dabble here and there with machining projects around the holidays when I go home or until I can get a new shop lined up. Is it one that has a industry forum here? 
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Pack LaRue #86
You can have things done fast, good or cheap. Pick two!
You can have things done fast, good or cheap. Pick two!
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I'm going to be making (attempting really) my ownwrench this weekend. If it goes well, I'll post pics. If it doesn't I'm not posting shit.  |
"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
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Made a little progress today, will post pics later. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
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Originally Posted By BSWilson:
Hey Moak, did you post dims or models anywhere? I believe he chose not to share those since he spent considerable time, money and resources designing his version of the tool in the first place. That in of itself is an investment. Can't really blame him really for not wanting to just give it away. That said, if he ever chose to make another limited run, say of a hundred units, they'd sell pretty quick. |
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My ID is 1.011", pin size is .1875, BC radius is .650", with a 16.4* offset.
Nut fits like a glove in my mock up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
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I Googled the part number, this was the first link that came up.
http://www.gotactical.com/knights-armament-company-tool-barrel-wrench-black-urxiiiii31-rails-20495-p-47574.html I haven't seen it in stock anywhere yet though. I would buy one just to have it. |
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Operation parts has 3 in-stock . Better hurry, I just ordered one.
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"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation"
-General Douglas MacArthur
-General Douglas MacArthur
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In the May 2012 issue of SWAT magazine there is an article on the Armalite integral rail system, which uses a barrel nut similar to the KAC one. Maybe it is the same thread size, I don't know... but even if it isn't, their wrench is only $19. It might be more cost-effective to manufacture a new nut to work with this wrench, perhaps from steel or even stainless steel, thus rendering it reusable, as well.
Here is a cropped scan from that article. Credit given, but if I am out of line I'll remove said photo: 
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Rest In Peace, Heather. I love you.
4/8/68 - 3/2/07
Check out Heather's blog:
http://livingwithmelanoma.blogspot.com/
4/8/68 - 3/2/07
Check out Heather's blog:
http://livingwithmelanoma.blogspot.com/
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Originally Posted By unclemoak:
Originally Posted By Falar:
Originally Posted By unclemoak:
Originally Posted By KevinB:
Originally Posted By JV3:
sweet thread! this would make a hell of a resume once you graduate. keep it up. you have a bright future. DITTO Some employers give you the  when you start talking about your gun-related projects.
Fuck those employers. I'm sure you can get a job in the industry. You already had an offer from KAC in this thread, I'll bet that would be a dream job for many. Well I guess it's all how you go about it in the interview. I do actually own a small company that makes stuff on occasion just for shits and giggles, so naturally it's on my resume. Interviewers always ask about it, so I have to go through a whole diatribe about how I've always been interested in competitive/target shooting and as I got more and more interested in firearms, I sought a need for some niche market parts for my own use, which evolved into me making them for others. If I explain it all that way they usually don't give me the and they are more understanding of the whole creative process.
thats cool man i like that you have a passion for guns like me and i love how you out smart the big companies and showed you can make your own with the right machines so stop charging us folks top dollar. i love the rifle its gorgeous. i would just love too let you put a normal FF rail on my AR. I dont have the tools or vice so im stuck with a moe plastic handguard/  plus theres no gunsmiths around here that does that. they just install night sights on pistols thats it.
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Originally Posted By EzGoingKev:
That is in no way compatible with KAC's URX barrel nut. Why is that? What is the thread pitch on Armalite vs KAC? My point was that even if it's not the same thread, it would be easier to make a compatible nut than to make a wrench for the KAC nut that would be cost-effective. ETA: I see what you mean... No, I didn't mean that the Armalite wrench was compatible with the URX nut; of course it isn't. I was curious as to whether the Armalite nut was the same thread as the URX nut, and could possibly be substituted instead. If not, a similar nut could be made to replace the URX nut, which would use the much cheaper Armalite wrench. |
Rest In Peace, Heather. I love you.
4/8/68 - 3/2/07
Check out Heather's blog:
http://livingwithmelanoma.blogspot.com/
4/8/68 - 3/2/07
Check out Heather's blog:
http://livingwithmelanoma.blogspot.com/
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Originally Posted By FITTER:
ETA: I see what you mean... No, I didn't mean that the Armalite wrench was compatible with the URX nut; of course it isn't. I was curious as to whether the Armalite nut was the same thread as the URX nut, and could possibly be substituted instead. If not, a similar nut could be made to replace the URX nut, which would use the much cheaper Armalite wrench. Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking if that tool could be used instead of the KAC one. Do you know the thread size and pitch of the Armalite parts? I can check to see what the spec is on the KAC rail. My suggestion many pages ago was to make a new nut with a 12 point head on it so that it could be use with a crow's foot or regular box end wrench. KAC says their aluminum nut is a one time use. There are people that have used it more than once, but I have heard if you re-use it too many times the aluminum nut stretches and does not stay tight. I was thinking about one made out of titanium so it would still be light but would not fatigue like the aluminum. |
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I believe the concern is not that the nut will stretch, which is somewhat unrealistic, rather that the 11 points will be deformed to be unusable.
I posted the dimensions earlier, and I have a plan to make a wrench, but it was easier to buy one. A bridgeport, a TIG, some dowel pins, and steel should render a very effective wrench. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
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Originally Posted By FITTER:
In the May 2012 issue of SWAT magazine there is an article on the Armalite integral rail system, which uses a barrel nut similar to the KAC one. Maybe it is the same thread size, I don't know... but even if it isn't, their wrench is only $19. It might be more cost-effective to manufacture a new nut to work with this wrench, perhaps from steel or even stainless steel, thus rendering it reusable, as well. Here is a cropped scan from that article. Credit given, but if I am out of line I'll remove said photo: http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Pat_Sajac/Weapons/ArmaliteCOPbarrelnutcroppedbmp.jpg That would be a good combination, Armalites wrench to fit KAC nut & thread pitch (if different). I don't have either one but it looks like it would fit.
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Originally Posted By Cole2534:
I believe the concern is not that the nut will stretch, which is somewhat unrealistic, rather that the 11 points will be deformed to be unusable. I posted the dimensions earlier, and I have a plan to make a wrench, but it was easier to buy one. A bridgeport, a TIG, some dowel pins, and steel should render a very effective wrench. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Definitely can do it that way, but buying a KAC wrench is now affordable.. |
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Originally Posted By Ryo:
Originally Posted By Cole2534:
I believe the concern is not that the nut will stretch, which is somewhat unrealistic, rather that the 11 points will be deformed to be unusable. I posted the dimensions earlier, and I have a plan to make a wrench, but it was easier to buy one. A bridgeport, a TIG, some dowel pins, and steel should render a very effective wrench. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Definitely can do it that way, but buying a KAC wrench is now affordable.. Which is why I own one.
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"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
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Impressive thread; I should've found this thread earlier. I built an 11.5" upper for my SBR using a URX II rail; borrowed the KAC rail from a fellow ARFCOMmer here (taking the upper to a gun shop and have them torque everything to spec...
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RIP SGT. Robert "Bobby" Wagner - 8/1/2004, Mosul Iraq.
"I really think people are trying to out-stupid each other." - D233
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Originally Posted By rksonex:
I was talking to a salesmen at the LGS today and he said he just installed his URX2 barrel nut with a pair of pliers... its nice to see someone doing it the correct way.
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Tennessee Squire
CVMA Chapter 24-2
Official ARFCOM Nickname: Ted
CVMA Chapter 24-2
Official ARFCOM Nickname: Ted
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Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:
Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:
Originally Posted By rksonex:
I was talking to a salesmen at the LGS today and he said he just installed his URX2 barrel nut with a pair of pliers... its nice to see someone doing it the correct way. Yup that was my reaction too. |
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Originally Posted By rksonex:
I was talking to a salesmen at the LGS today and he said he just installed his URX2 barrel nut with a pair of pliers... its nice to see someone doing it the correct way. 
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The legend.
The bringer of rain.
Just the right amount of wrong.
The bringer of rain.
Just the right amount of wrong.
| Apparently, now, a HK-based company has caught on and makes a tool for the URX rail installations. Can be bought for $30 and is made out of steel. |
Vegetarian: Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Vegetarian: Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Originally Posted By jtb33:
Apparently, now, a HK-based company has caught on and makes a tool for the URX rail installations. Can be bought for $30 and is made out of steel. Originally Posted By jtb33:
Apparently, now, a HK-based company has caught on and makes a tool for the URX rail installations. Can be bought for $30 and is made out of steel. HK does airsoft? |
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Originally Posted By EzGoingKev:
HK does airsoft? Originally Posted By EzGoingKev:
Originally Posted By jtb33:
Apparently, now, a HK-based company has caught on and makes a tool for the URX rail installations. Can be bought for $30 and is made out of steel. HK does airsoft? My guess is Hong Kong has been doing airsoft for a long time. |
Vegetarian: Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Knights URX II install.......doing it the hard way (revisiting the project 4/9 update) (Page 6 of 6)
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