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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/26/2005 12:01:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 12:33:44 PM EDT by AShooter]
Anybody know anything about the Kahles 1.1-4x24 CSX?

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/51806/kahles_1.1-4x24_csx_30mm_riflescope.htm

Looks like it might be an alternative to the Short Dot. Not that much less expensive, but it splits the difference in price between the unobtainable Nightforce 1-4 and the S&B.


Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:16:13 PM EDT
Looks pretty interesting, almost the same length as the S&B. Per Kahle's website, it's a second focal plane (SFP) and weighs in slightly lighter than the S&B as well. Of the reticle choices, I suppose I'd go with the P-Dot out of the three. What makes the S&B the king right now is that it's a first focal plane reticle and it has the best illumination technology. Kahle's definitely makes good glass, I'm just not sure that there might be other low power SFP scopes that would be just as good for less $.

Kahles Helia CSX 1.1-4x24
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 1:58:56 AM EDT
at the suggested price i think you would be better off shelling out the little more and getting shortdot.


Link Posted: 9/27/2005 2:18:47 AM EDT

Only other alternatives that I've been able to nail down that might be anywhere close to the Short Dot is the Meopta Meostar, but theres not much info out there on those... other than a couple of posts here at arfcom that suggest they are highly regarded in Europe.

DAMN Nightforce! Wish those MFers would let go of a few 1-4's!

The short dot seems pretty slick, but I couldn't sleep nights if I shelled out two grand for a carbine scope!
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 4:48:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
at the suggested price i think you would be better off shelling out the little more and getting shortdot.





Correct!

I received my ShortDot yesterday and it´s da bomb!
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 3:42:12 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By AShooter:
Only other alternatives that I've been able to nail down that might be anywhere close to the Short Dot is the Meopta Meostar, but theres not much info out there on those... other than a couple of posts here at arfcom that suggest they are highly regarded in Europe.

DAMN Nightforce! Wish those MFers would let go of a few 1-4's!

The short dot seems pretty slick, but I couldn't sleep nights if I shelled out two grand for a carbine scope!



NF 1-4X is not FFP, has no zero stop, has illumination system too dim, etc. I dont see how it is any better than the Meopta (seems worse) and it costs more money. On top of that the entire rear occular lens rotates to change power so your caps will be all caddy whompus at various powers. Its off my possible list.

Do my eyes decieve me or does the Kahles say its got "auto dimming" and "one easy click" illumination? This is what I have been looking for. Auto adjusting brightness of the red dot for any situation. Hell this my serve my limted needs better than the Short Dot since I dont plan on shooting at ver long range with that scope. I guess the illumination brightness is the only issue I have left to look at.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:51:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By AShooter:

DAMN Nightforce! Wish those MFers would let go of a few 1-4's!

The short dot seems pretty slick, but I couldn't sleep nights if I shelled out two grand for a carbine scope!



NF 1-4X is not FFP, has no zero stop, has illumination system too dim, etc. I dont see how it is any better than the Meopta (seems worse) and it costs more money. On top of that the entire rear occular lens rotates to change power so your caps will be all caddy whompus at various powers. Its off my possible list.



I have a NF 2.5-10 and the eyepiece lense doesn't rotate when you zoom up or down. Is the 1-4 different?

Unless they crank up the brightness way beyond what the 2.5-10's I've used are, they won't get the Aimpoint style dot thing going like the S&B does, but I think I could probably use their FC-2 reticle at 1x about 98% as fast as I can use an Aimpoint. Only time the 2.5x NP-R2 slows me down much is if I'm moving, and it doesn't make a helluva lot of difference there - just put the target in the middle of the hole and press.

But it'd still be a lot easier with a bolder reticle and lower magnification.



Do my eyes decieve me or does the Kahles say its got "auto dimming" and "one easy click" illumination? This is what I have been looking for. Auto adjusting brightness of the red dot for any situation just like the Dr Optic sight. Hell this my serve my limited needs better than the Short Dot since I dont plan on shooting at very long range with that scope. I guess the illumination brightness is the only issue I have left to look at. If its as bright as the Short Dot its my new scope.

I check Kahles back when and they only had a 1.25X-4 scope. Also it was over a foot long. Anyone found specs on its length? Anyone used the illumination system?




The auto-dimming I think is an auto shutoff. Then you just bump the illum knob on the left side up or down and it automatically turns back on to the last brightness setting you had it on.

Length is like 10.8" I think. Shorter than the Meopta 1.1-4, but still 2" longer than the Nightforce 1-4.

Brightness? I'm still trying to find out. If it's as bright as a short dot, the "D Dot" reticle should be about the same for CQB work.... as long as your batteries hold up... which is supposed to be "up to 80 hours", whatever that means.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:21:02 AM EDT

Well, I got this in an email today from SWFA regarding the brightness level of the Kahles:

"It is a bright sunny day here in Texas. With the brightness level at
the highest setting, I could not tell if it was on or not in sunlight."

Oh well, I guess it's back to researching the Meopta, or sticking with a more "coventional" reticle like a circle-dot. I just can't stand the thought of laying out two grand on a S&B.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:28:55 AM EDT
What about the Trijicon TR21?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:19:50 PM EDT

TR21? Is that the same as the Acupoint?

Main reason I haven't considered the Accupoint is because I've heard the field of view isn't real great. Also, I don't really like the reticle design or the 1" tube. The few I've seen in person don't look like they'd handle a whole lot of abuse.

I'm about to the point of either blowing off Nightforce entirely and getting a USO SN-4, or getting a "cheap" Leupold 1-4 or 1.5-5 to hold me over until NF decides to let their 1-4 out of the bag.

Meopta seems interesting, but is an unknown quantity and is a FOOT LONG. The Horus Talon looks interesting, but I have a feeling a big chunk of the price is for that fancy Xmas tree reticle, which I feel is kind of a waste on a 1-4x scope...

As much as I hate to say it, the S&B is really the only thing out there that sounds like it gives you the speed of an Aimpoint for CQB combined with the range of an ACOG and the ruggedness to stand up to real use.

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 4:52:09 PM EDT
Tag for the feedback.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:34:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:06:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:13:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AShooter:
Only other alternatives that I've been able to nail down that might be anywhere close to the Short Dot is the Meopta Meostar, but theres not much info out there on those... other than a couple of posts here at arfcom that suggest they are highly regarded in Europe.



I agree. I just don't like Meopta's reticle options. If they could develop some type of ranging reticle, similar to the S&B, I would buy one instantly. (Hello Meopta, are you listening?)

For the low price range (<$300), the upcoming Mueller looks interesting. For midrange ($500 to $1K), the Horus Talon looks interesting. For me, the Kahles is just too close in price to the S&B, which is the ideal do-it-all optic for the AR platform.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 2:31:16 AM EDT


I agree that the normal price for the Kahles is close enough to S&B to just cough up the extra for the S&B. BUT for anybody who's interested, www.samplelist.com has a couple of these that are demo pieces they're selling for $1000. That makes it half the price of the S&B, which is the only reason I was considering it.

I'm down to SN-4 vs. Meopta Meostar.



again - DAMN Nightforce! Really annoys the hell outta me that the first scope you see when you go to their website is the one scope they ain't selling!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:57:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:01:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By AShooter:

I agree that the normal price for the Kahles is close enough to S&B to just cough up the extra for the S&B. BUT for anybody who's interested, www.samplelist.com has a couple of these that are demo pieces they're selling for $1000. That makes it half the price of the S&B, which is the only reason I was considering it.

I'm down to SN-4 vs. Meopta Meostar.



again - DAMN Nightforce! Really annoys the hell outta me that the first scope you see when you go to their website is the one scope they ain't selling!




Here is my SN-4!



C4

­

www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Broken%20US%20Optics%20SN4.JPG



how did you manage that



how much is the horus you speak of going for?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:46:37 AM EDT
Yeah, I'd already seen that Grant. Pretty interesting accomplishment there!

I've been through an SN-4 and an SN-12 already, and though I wasn't honestly all that impressed with them, I did feel like they were tough as an anvil. Guess not.

I ran into a Meopta Meostar 1-4x for about $250 below SWFA's price, so I'm gonna be a guinea pig for that, I think. I'll post some info when I get a chance to mess with it a bit.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:53:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:54:21 AM EDT
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