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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/3/2005 12:51:45 PM EDT
I just sold my Bushy flattop and I don’t think I’m going to replace it.

It just doesn’t seem worth it.

I’m not an AR-basher but I have a few HONEST gripes about it.

For example:

1. They are really really expensive. Think about it.

2. The factory triggers are horrible. It’s like a lamp switch.

3. They are not designed to shoot with a scope. The scope bell sticks back right in your face.

4. I cannot get a comfortable cheek weld. My head has to be too tilted.

5. They are pretty heavy if you get an HB.

6. The cartridge is low powered. It is truly a varmint cartridge. Nothing more. You can kill a moose with a 22 long rifle but that does not make it a moose cartridge.

7. Reloading for gas powered USGI rifles carries a small risk of slam fire. Seems to anyway.


However, I would definitely buy an AR under the following circumstances:

1. For a varmint space gun. The AR is an amazingly accurate gun in general.
2. For a CMP match gun.
3. If I stopped reloading. The USGI ammo is excellent stuff. Used to be inexpensive also.
4. The Colt LEO models are very bad ass. If I saw a real deal on one I might cave in and buy it.


I’m not saying that the AR is a bad gun or anything, but I only ever shot mine a few dozen times. It was just sort of boring.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.

As for the end of the world zombie senarios, well.... give me break. I enjoy reading those silly threads but let's face it, practically any reasonable rifle will be suitable to defend yourself. there's nothing about the AR that means you MUST own one or DIE. The guys that make me laugh are the ones that insist that you must own a certain TYPE of AR or die. LOL
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:56:49 PM EDT
Okay....

<­BR>



Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:03:08 PM EDT
WHISKEY

TANGO

FOXTROT

OV­ER?

HS1
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:04:41 PM EDT
Now that you have sold the Bushy, it's time to get that Colt!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:04:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:14:55 PM EDT
The Ar isn't for everyone. Which is fine, to each his own. I agree the factory single stage triggers are not the greatest. I've never had any problems as far as scopes go, but I haven't used anything but a TA11 and a TA31 on an AR. Cheek weld has always been fairly comfortable for me and I've never had a HBAR. You may want to try a different set-up. You get what you pay for in most cases, as far as triggers and scopes go. If not shoot whatever makes you happy.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:19:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:26:38 PM EDT
I understand you didn't like your Bushmaster. If you have any AR15 junk you want to dump, IM me. If I can use it, I'll pay for shipping.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:32:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:
I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.



Enough said... I think we all understand now.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:34:43 PM EDT
My HK USP 45 was expensive but I think I will put up with whatever it and my Bushmaster give me.I deserve it.bad rick bad..bad..bad.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:35:36 PM EDT
Oh lordie, you have been watching Chuck Connors in "The Rifleman" again haven't you?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:37:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 1:38:49 PM EDT by 223-4me]

Originally Posted By red65:
I just sold my Bushy flattop and I don’t think I’m going to replace it.

It just doesn’t seem worth it.

I’m not an AR-basher but I have a few HONEST gripes about it.

For example:

1. They are really really expensive. Think about it.

2. The factory triggers are horrible. It’s like a lamp switch.

3. They are not designed to shoot with a scope. The scope bell sticks back right in your face.

4. I cannot get a comfortable cheek weld. My head has to be too tilted.

5. They are pretty heavy if you get an HB.

6. The cartridge is low powered. It is truly a varmint cartridge. Nothing more. You can kill a moose with a 22 long rifle but that does not make it a moose cartridge.

7. Reloading for gas powered USGI rifles carries a small risk of slam fire. Seems to anyway.


However, I would definitely buy an AR under the following circumstances:

1. For a varmint space gun. The AR is an amazingly accurate gun in general.
2. For a CMP match gun.
3. If I stopped reloading. The USGI ammo is excellent stuff. Used to be inexpensive also.
4. The Colt LEO models are very bad ass. If I saw a real deal on one I might cave in and buy it.


I’m not saying that the AR is a bad gun or anything, but I only ever shot mine a few dozen times. It was just sort of boring.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.

As for the end of the world zombie senarios, well.... give me break. I enjoy reading those silly threads but let's face it, practically any reasonable rifle will be suitable to defend yourself. there's nothing about the AR that means you MUST own one or DIE. The guys that make me laugh are the ones that insist that you must own a certain TYPE of AR or die. LOL




Maybe thats your problem
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:41:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:41:24 PM EDT
HBAR's heavy? What do you normally shoot?

I don't get why people complain about heaviness. Even balance. Go pick up an M14, then pick up a 20" HBAR and tell me which one feels better.

As for being really expensive, compared to what? An AK? Look at what a good FAL costs. Look at what a Good HK costs. Look at what a cast low grade M1A costs. I suppose you could always a get a Mini 14. They're about $200 cheaper and about a fourth of the quality.


Oh well, I can't tell you what you do and don't like. Farewell, and continue supporting your right to own such a rifle should you ever want to again.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:48:04 PM EDT
Well, this is AR15.com, so I don't think that you'll find a lot of sympathizers.

Is there such a thing as 30-30.com?

Just kidding.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 1:49:48 PM EDT by TexasSIG]
[Powers Boothe in Tombstone] Well.......Bye.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:58:31 PM EDT
Buh-bye
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:02:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 2:05:12 PM EDT by _DR]
Looks like you need to join a cowboy action shooting club or something with "Flair".

You might be more at home here

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:07:27 PM EDT
That is one way to break the habit.

Pretend like you don't want one....
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:08:42 PM EDT
I really agree on one thing I think there over priced Colts that is and after market stuff is overpriced
you would have 2K in a gun easly! The market seems to be in a big demand for it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:10:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:15:46 PM EDT
Put the beer down and sober up. Find the Colt and correct yourself.

Max
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:24:20 PM EDT
expense... its all relative, i guess. i think ar's are actually pretty inexpensive as far as my gun habits go.

factory triggers for most any gun sucks. some are easier to fix than others, some are less expensive. i can live w/ the ar's - it ain't that bad.

scope... no, not as comfy as my bolt guns, but good enough that i can hit stuff... i can deal w/ it, some can't.

weight... any heavy barrel rifle is heavy. go pick up a rem 700 vls or something if you want heavy. if you want a light one, get a different platform.

power... well, i happen to agree that the 223/556 is a varmints-only cartridge... which is why i got into ar's (wanted a new varminter platform). some disagree... but for better critter-stoppers, i have much bigger guns.

relaoding... never had any troubles, or slam fires, or anything.

all that said, you need to buy/have what makes you happy, and if the ar isn't it, then sell it off and sail on... there's more to life than being married to a gun you don't particularly care for,
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:34:36 PM EDT
I knew you were gonna get it.did seem like a setup crying here on ar15 about an ar15
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:41:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:

4. The Colt LEO models are very bad ass. If I saw a real deal on one I might cave in and buy it.






Everyone else already addressed most of your comments I had questions over but I would like to ask how the "very bad ass" Colt LEO differs from every other AR you lumped into the not as cool as the Marlin 30-30 bucket since it suffers from the same "problems" you took issue with?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:43:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Originally Posted By red65:
I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.



Enough said... I think we all understand now.



Sell your car too, a horse is more dependable. And you will look cool carrying your 30-30.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:52:17 PM EDT
Thats okay. We Black Rifle fans understand. Matter of factly I sold/traded my AK for a scope mount I need and $200 cash. All I have to say is "Goodby Romania....Hello Rock River!"
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:53:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:03:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Hoplite:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Originally Posted By red65:
I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.



Enough said... I think we all understand now.



Sell your car too, a horse is more dependable. And you will look cool carrying your 30-30.



Now that there is funny...............no matter who you are
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:14:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:
I’m not saying that the AR is a bad gun or anything, but I only ever shot mine a few dozen times. It was just sort of boring.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well....




Well......from your post it looks like the AR just isn't your cup of tea. That's fine with me.....the "shooting world" is certainly big enough to accomodate all sorts of tastes.

I'm just curious though....what makes your ex-AR "sort of boring" to shoot, but your lever action "a lot of fun."

Not a flame, just a question.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:13:45 PM EDT
Let's see what kind of accuracy you get out of the 30-30 lever , if 5.56 is under powered try an AR in .50Beowulf . That will blow your 30-30 in the weeds power and accuracy wize !
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:18:33 PM EDT
What will you do when the zombies come?

coburn
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:34:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 4:35:31 PM EDT by Kal-El]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By red65:
I just sold my Bushy flattop and I don’t think I’m going to replace it.

It just doesn’t seem worth it.

I’m not an AR-basher but I have a few HONEST gripes about it.

For example:

1. They are really really expensive. Think about it.

2. The factory triggers are horrible. It’s like a lamp switch.

3. They are not designed to shoot with a scope. The scope bell sticks back right in your face.

4. I cannot get a comfortable cheek weld. My head has to be too tilted.

5. They are pretty heavy if you get an HB.

6. The cartridge is low powered. It is truly a varmint cartridge. Nothing more. You can kill a moose with a 22 long rifle but that does not make it a moose cartridge.

7. Reloading for gas powered USGI rifles carries a small risk of slam fire. Seems to anyway.


However, I would definitely buy an AR under the following circumstances:

1. For a varmint space gun. The AR is an amazingly accurate gun in general.
2. For a CMP match gun.
3. If I stopped reloading. The USGI ammo is excellent stuff. Used to be inexpensive also.
4. The Colt LEO models are very bad ass. If I saw a real deal on one I might cave in and buy it.


I’m not saying that the AR is a bad gun or anything, but I only ever shot mine a few dozen times. It was just sort of boring.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.

As for the end of the world zombie senarios, well.... give me break. I enjoy reading those silly threads but let's face it, practically any reasonable rifle will be suitable to defend yourself. there's nothing about the AR that means you MUST own one or DIE. The guys that make me laugh are the ones that insist that you must own a certain TYPE of AR or die. LOL




I would like to shed some light onto your comments:

1. They are really really expensive. Think about it.

Don't have to be. Buy used parts and build your own

2. The factory triggers are horrible. It’s like a lamp switch.

15 minute trigger job and all is good. Cost is nothing to do this.

3. They are not designed to shoot with a scope. The scope bell sticks back right in your face.

This true. That is why you buy a cantilever scope mount from Armalite or LaRue Tactical and it works perfectly

4. I cannot get a comfortable cheek weld. My head has to be too tilted.

Ditch the cheap crappy collapsible stock and get a SOPMOD, VLTOR or Magpul

5. They are pretty heavy if you get an HB.

Don't get an HBAR!

6. The cartridge is low powered. It is truly a varmint cartridge. Nothing more. You can kill a moose with a 22 long rifle but that does not make it a moose cartridge.

Negative ghost rider! The 5.56 in either 62gr or 75/77gr is a VERY good man stopper

7. Reloading for gas powered USGI rifles carries a small risk of slam fire. Seems to anyway.

Never heard of that problem



Well that was easy! Next.....



C4



i thought the 55 gr round would be better than the 62 green tip.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:42:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jdgiii:
Buh-bye



hope you enjoy airsoft!!!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:15:52 PM EDT
Somebody get a rope.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:25:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:47:43 PM EDT by red65]

Originally Posted By feral:

Originally Posted By red65:
I’m not saying that the AR is a bad gun or anything, but I only ever shot mine a few dozen times. It was just sort of boring.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well....




Well......from your post it looks like the AR just isn't your cup of tea. That's fine with me.....the "shooting world" is certainly big enough to accomodate all sorts of tastes.

I'm just curious though....what makes your ex-AR "sort of boring" to shoot, but your lever action "a lot of fun."

Not a flame, just a question.




I think that the AR is a good gun overall, but the style of AR that I owned was boring.

Basically, it was just an expensive, low powered rifle with a bad trigger but was the same size and weight as my other rifles.

I don't see any advantage to owning that style of AR but as I said, there are other configurations that I would consider buying. If I had it to do over I would get one of those excellent LEO guns.

The 30-30 is not the only gun I enjoy shooting. I have a Garand that is great. I also have a remington 700 in 30-06 that is excellent.

I always liked lever action carbines. I find that they point well and are easy to hit with. Marlin has their product basically perfected and the price is excellent.

You guys who are making fun of the rifle should try one out. The 30-30 cartridge is fairly lame but is still popular because it's an good match power-wise for an excellent rifle.

I would say to avoid the 45-70 version of the gun. They really kick too hard to enjoy at the range. I'm not recoil shy but they they are painful unless you stick to the original 1300 fps loads.


PS - Some of you guys take life too seriously.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:30:04 PM EDT
its your money and $$$s and choice
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:32:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By jdgiii:
Buh-bye



hope you enjoy airsoft!!!



Go suit up in your cammies!!!

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:45:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Oh lordie, you have been watching Chuck Connors in "The Rifleman" again haven't you?



LOL

Now yer talking

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:54:48 PM EDT
AR15KittyKat just waxed an 800lb pig with one. I don't think they're underpowered.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:59:39 PM EDT
Couldnt even join a cowboy shoot,even these guys appreciate a handgun caliber carbine,so six shooters uses the same ammo.

They do have side matches, but they use 45/70 etc,but no 30/30s.

30/30 is usually good for amateur hunters, who live in the cities.

TG

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:27:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 7:51:39 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Why 30-30?

7.62x39 has similar balistics, and with an AK...........you will blow any Marlin outta the water

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:42:53 PM EDT
If ARs are expensive, what's priced appropriately? An SKS?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:43:45 PM EDT
red65
Man-card revoked
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:50:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 6:51:41 PM EDT by King_of_All_Tyrants]
Red65-

Do what you think is best. Based on your choices (.30-30, R700 in .30-06, Garand) you seem like you would be more at home chasing medium to big game than running around playing commando in a carbine match.

GOOD. If that's what you enjoy, the AR definitely isn't for you.

I do have to ask, though, what model bushmaster did you have? An A4, or a carbine type?

Some comments:


Originally Posted By red65:
1. They are really really expensive. Think about it.

2. The factory triggers are horrible. It’s like a lamp switch.

You can get aftermarket triggers from them. They install real easy. The Rock River trigger is best (and will run you another $100). I was not a fan of stock triggers either until I got my Colt 6920. I'm fond of the trigger. Yes it's heavy, and it's by no means a match trigger, but my particular trigger is crisp enough for any practical use I may have for it.

3. They are not designed to shoot with a scope. The scope bell sticks back right in your face.

Get a cantilever scope mount for the rifle

4. I cannot get a comfortable cheek weld. My head has to be too tilted.

Have you considered getting a better stock? Alternately, have you considered canting the rifle towards you? Many top highpower shooters do this when they shoot from position

6. The cartridge is low powered. It is truly a varmint cartridge. Nothing more. You can kill a moose with a 22 long rifle but that does not make it a moose cartridge.

Again, purposes. You seem to be looking for a med-large game rifle.

I think my favorite rifle is the Marlin 30-30. That might seem weird to you guys but they are a lot of fun to shoot and handle very well.

Nothing weird about that at all. Put a .30-30 in my hand with a nice set of peep sites, and I would be tempted to go into the woods, trotting around slowly and quietly..........



PS - Some of you guys take life too seriously.

+1. Again, an AR isn't for this dude. And obviously .30-30s, as great as they are, isn't for a lot of people on this site!!!




As for the question, "why a .30-30?", I think this is a very suitable cartrdige for East Coast type woods hunting (he DOES live in PA). You can load it with your choice of 125, 150 and 170 gr. pills, (the latter of which are not available in 7.62X39) all of which are cheap to buy at Wally world and even cheaper to reload. And they'll take any game you can find east of the Mississippi. And, I am told that it remains among the top ten cartdiges in terms of ammunition, component, and die sales in the US.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:50:47 PM EDT
Fascinating.

Riveting.

An amazing thesis on the pros and cons for sure.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:51:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasGunman:
Couldnt even join a cowboy shoot,even these guys appreciate a handgun caliber carbine,so six shooters uses the same ammo.

They do have side matches, but they use 45/70 etc,but no 30/30s.

30/30 is usually good for amateur hunters, who live in the cities.

TG





The 30-30 is a good cartidge for a light carbine.

Maybe you should get a 5 lb lever action chambered in 50 BMG.

Seems like nobody cares about having a well balanced rifle/cartridge combination anymore.

Now everyone wants a 458 win mag in a 4 lb rifle with a 6 pound 20x scope on top.

That 45-70 cartridge in the 1900 fps / 405 gr loads is a joke. WTF are you gonna hit that hard? Why bother? Go to a 300 win mag at that recoil level and at least get some range out of the deal.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:58:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By King_of_All_Tyrants:
Red65-

Do what you think is best. Based on your choices (.30-30, R700 in .30-06, Garand) you seem like you would be more at home chasing medium to big game than running around playing commando in a carbine match.

GOOD. If that's what you enjoy, the AR definitely isn't for you.

I do have to ask, though, what model bushmaster did you have? An A4, or a carbine type?


As for the question, "why a .30-30?", I think this is a very suitable cartrdige for East Coast type woods hunting (he DOES live in PA). You can load it with your choice of 125, 150 and 170 gr. pills, (the latter of which are not available in 7.62X39) all of which are cheap to buy at Wally world and even cheaper to reload. And they'll take any game you can find east of the Mississippi. And, I am told that it remains among the top ten cartdiges in terms of ammunition, component, and die sales in the US.



I had the plain jane 20" heavy barrel flat top.

FWIW, You should pretty much stick with 170 gr 30-30 loads. The lighter loads don't seem to group well for some reason.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:24:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasGunman:
Couldnt even join a cowboy shoot,even these guys appreciate a handgun caliber carbine,so six shooters uses the same ammo.

They do have side matches, but they use 45/70 etc,but no 30/30s.

30/30 is usually good for amateur hunters, who live in the cities.
TG





WTF?

Some of the best hunter old timers I know use 30-30. With IRON sites and take down deer with ease.


Sure there are higher tech guns out there but 30-30 is my no means for beginners.
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