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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:41:23 PM EST
Bought some ammo used from a guy at the gunshow. Lucky for me the few I grabbed and inspected looked pretty good. Wish that was the case for most of them.

I don't reload, so I don't have any experience here. I've bought reloads before online, but they didn't look near as bad as this.

What I would think bad (typically a score at a dent, or really bad dent where it tapers). Look close on the left, 2nd image.



Jeebus.

Only 2 out of 130 or so.



What I would think is passable



I'm not expecting any guarantees from anyone, but even at the price I got it for, I think I want my money back. What say ye hive mind?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 4:59:56 PM EST
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:24:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.

+1

The last time I fired a reload that someone else had made, it was a squib in a HP, luckily for me the next round didn't chamber.

I don't do other people's reloads.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:03:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.


You mean just expand out to conform to your chamber, right?

I don't know for sure this stuff was reloaded, but it sure looks it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:02:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By 50-140:

Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.

+1

The last time I fired a reload that someone else had made, it was a squib in a HP, luckily for me the next round didn't chamber.

I don't do other people's reloads.


+3 Saving a buck or two on the ammo does not make up for the possibility of having to buy a new rifle or re attach fingers or something. If you want to reload, this site has a lot of knowledge and Speer's reloading manual is a great start. I like the blue press.

Just not safe to shoot someone else's rounds.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:55:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:45:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 6:46:41 AM EST by Sajer]
Originally Posted By Gator:
Bought some ammo used from a guy at the gunshow. Lucky for me the few I grabbed and inspected looked pretty good. Wish that was the case for most of them.

I don't reload, so I don't have any experience here. I've bought reloads before online, but they didn't look near as bad as this.

What I would think bad (typically a score at a dent, or really bad dent where it tapers). Look close on the left, 2nd image.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_KnLEAgDd0h0/SrBApL7JJmI/AAAAAAAAARE/sT5iv_Bb_Og/s912/Bad_01.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KnLEAgDd0h0/SrBApKe4s5I/AAAAAAAAARI/0cYpCXhaHQo/s640/Bad_02.jpg

Jeebus.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KnLEAgDd0h0/SrBApTkb8SI/AAAAAAAAARM/i6x6NPEf-AY/s640/REALLY_Bad.jpg






What I would think is passable
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_KnLEAgDd0h0/SrBApnTzoVI/AAAAAAAAARQ/BcGqeGjKcdw/s640/Passable.jpg


I'm not expecting any guarantees from anyone, but even at the price I got it for, I think I want my money back. What say ye hive mind?


Looks like mil surp?


I used to shoot a ton of TZZ stuff from Southern Ammo that is similar to the last pic.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:34:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Are those actually reloads or is that mixed-bag milsurp?


That's what I was thinking. If they are reloads, damn. But it looks like some of the .308 TZZ that was range pick ups they used to sell after Knob Creek.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:44:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:44:53 PM EST by Gator]
Originally Posted By Sajer:

Looks like mil surp?


I used to shoot a ton of TZZ stuff from Southern Ammo that is similar to the last pic.


This is all Israeli (TZZ). Maybe it is milsurp then. Man, this stuff has been banged around. What is your experience with this stuff?

Guy at work that reloads says I shouldn't be such a wuss.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:52:41 PM EST
Ask the guy at work if he will give you what you paid for it!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:01:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 5:04:38 PM EST by Tom-from-Michigan]
Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.


You mean just expand out to conform to your chamber, right?

I don't know for sure this stuff was reloaded, but it sure looks it.


I would definitely deep six that rusty stuff. The dents it the others don't look bad and if I would certain that they were factory, I'd probably shoot those. The minor dents will fire form out. Just like shooters shooting standard cartridges in "improved" chambers. The pressure forms the brass to fit the chamber. Of course in this case, it's just a little ding. I got some once fired .223 brass one time. Each case had a good size dent in the body. When I sized them, about 90% of the dent popped out. The rest of it just fire formed out. Usually factory military ammo has a noticeable annealing discoloration on the neck. I don't see it on those. Also the primers usually have an annular crimp with some kind of sealant. Error on the side of caution. If in doubt, dispose of it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 5:02:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 1:28:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 1:28:37 PM EST by Gator]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Sajer:

Looks like mil surp?

I used to shoot a ton of TZZ stuff from Southern Ammo that is similar to the last pic.

This is all Israeli (TZZ). Maybe it is milsurp then. Man, this stuff has been banged around. What is your experience with this stuff?

Guy at work that reloads says I shouldn't be such a wuss.

Does it have crimped primers?


I think they are boxer primed.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 2:16:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I would never shoot someone elses reloads, except for factory reloads like Blackhills. Minor dents usually just blow out. Even dents in fired cases will usually size out. If someone else loaded those, I'd pass on shooting them.


You mean just expand out to conform to your chamber, right?

I don't know for sure this stuff was reloaded, but it sure looks it.


I would definitely deep six that rusty stuff. The dents it the others don't look bad and if I would certain that they were factory, I'd probably shoot those. The minor dents will fire form out. Just like shooters shooting standard cartridges in "improved" chambers. The pressure forms the brass to fit the chamber. Of course in this case, it's just a little ding. I got some once fired .223 brass one time. Each case had a good size dent in the body. When I sized them, about 90% of the dent popped out. The rest of it just fire formed out. Usually factory military ammo has a noticeable annealing discoloration on the neck. I don't see it on those. Also the primers usually have an annular crimp with some kind of sealant. Error on the side of caution. If in doubt, dispose of it.


I agree, I'd throw away those two rusty rounds. If the other pictures are a good representation of what the rest look like the dents don't appear to be bad enough to warrant throwing them away. I've reloaded a bit and have some friends that reload a lot and have always been told that the dents you should be most concerned with are the ones on the neck and shoulders of the case. The round in the bottom picture is probably the worst I'd feel comfortable shooting and I'd wait until I tried some of the others first simply to be safe.

I wouldn't buy reloads from an individual who you don't know, trust and have knowledge of their reloading experience in the future. It's one thing to buy it from a company that does it professionally but another to buy them from an individual. When buying from an individual you don't know their reloading practices, knowledge, ethics or how careful they are. For all you know it could be loaded hot intentionally, have too much or too little powder accidentally or even the wrong kind of powder.

It may seem a little paranoid but after having someone try to sell me 308 blanks that he had reloaded and was trying to pass of as .mil surplus I've learned it's not worth the risk. I was fortunate in that I realized the rounds were shorter than normal 308 and asked him about it and after much questioning he acknowledged that they were reloaded blanks. As the rounds were significantly shorter than normal 308, blanks often have thinner case walls and aren't loaded with the same amount of powder as live rounds it could have been disastrous if I had actually shot them. The worst part was that he was trying to pass them off as normal .mil surplus, he was more interested in making a buck than anyone's safety.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 4:25:04 PM EST
Honestly those last rounds with the dent look like they were loaded and the bolt over rode the round. FTF (bad mag/feedlips) He probably just unloaded those and kept shooting and decided to sell those you. Just an observation
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:39:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 5:43:14 PM EST by excursion12]
Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Sajer:

Looks like mil surp?

I used to shoot a ton of TZZ stuff from Southern Ammo that is similar to the last pic.

This is all Israeli (TZZ). Maybe it is milsurp then. Man, this stuff has been banged around. What is your experience with this stuff?

Guy at work that reloads says I shouldn't be such a wuss.

Does it have crimped primers?

[

I think they are boxer primed.


Are the primers crimped into the brass? Small ring indented down around the primer, or sometimes 3 or more "stakes".
Reloads aren't usually (don't think I have ever seen one) crimped back in.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:17:32 PM EST
First, as for not firing "someone else's reloads" part of meI take a bit of offense to that. If you were lucky you would get to shoot my reloads. I have been reloading for forty years. Started in 1969. I have been a long time target/varmint shooter and needed the most perfect ammo I could get. I also needed custom ammo that would maximize the performance of my rifles. Only way to get that was to make it myself. I have reloaded and fired many thousands of rounds of ammo without a single problem ever. I can not say that for factory ammo. I shoot on average once a week so I reload a thousand rounds or more a month of .380, 9mm and .223. Outside of my .22 firearms I shoot nothing but my reloads. I also supply my brother and a couple of my closest friends. They trust their lives to my ammo, and they have good reason to do so.

Now, that being said, there are those out there who do not do as well. Lots of jokers have jumped into reloading with very little knowledge, or even good sense or judgment. I have seen several of them bust their rifles at the range due to overloaded ammo. Some have no knowledge of things like inspecting cases, what case length is, of how to anneal a case, etc. They don't use a good scale to measure powder or check bullet weights. (I use there scales and constantly cross check them. I know how important .1 grain can be.) They don't know about primers, powders, working up a load, etc. In short, as I sit here and think of it, I can see why some don't want to use reloads.

What I do say is that there are a lot of us out here that do know what we are doing. As for the ammo in the pictures, that stuff is rough looking and I wouldn't use it. I especially avoid cases with any discoloration (tarnish, not the normal annealing marks) The brass can be very weak and I see many of these cases blow out or crack when fired. This happens a lot with the old surplus ammo used at the machine gun shoots. These guys are running thousands of rounds through their guns at shows. They can't afford to use new Lake City, etc. in them for a show. They buy up old cheap surplus and shoot it. There is a reason that ammo is surplus. A lot of it is old and damaged and the military dumped it.

So, it it looks less than good, don't waste your money on it. Buy good quality ammo either NIB or from an experienced serious reloaded. I find it interesting that I have offered to sell hard to get .380 made with all factory fresh parts, including new brass to people who turn their noses up at it. At the same time I have had people try to buy ammo from me but think I should spend hours crafting match grade ammo and then sell it to them for less than what the components cost me.

Good luck and dump that old stuff that looks like crap. Surplus ammo is surplus for a reason. I know some of it is OK but I have just seen too much of it be crap.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:19:58 PM EST
I only shoot factory ammunition out of my guns. I will shoot reloads out of revolvers with no worries.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:19:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By excursion12:
Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By Gator:
Originally Posted By Sajer:

Looks like mil surp?

I used to shoot a ton of TZZ stuff from Southern Ammo that is similar to the last pic.

This is all Israeli (TZZ). Maybe it is milsurp then. Man, this stuff has been banged around. What is your experience with this stuff?

Guy at work that reloads says I shouldn't be such a wuss.

Does it have crimped primers?

[

I think they are boxer primed.


Are the primers crimped into the brass? Small ring indented down around the primer, or sometimes 3 or more "stakes".
Reloads aren't usually (don't think I have ever seen one) crimped back in.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr45/excursion12_photo/milcrimp4.jpg


They do have the small ring indented around the primer. So I'd say Sajer's guess is right, they are milsurp, old dumped milsurp, or something of that nature. I might have some people interested in splitting it up. I can live much easier with hopefully 500 rounds, rather than 1500.
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