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Posted: 5/4/2004 6:19:37 AM EST
Currently I'm a student still and have VERY little funds. I've decided to build my first AR b/c I have confidence I can do so. I also am going to do it b/c I need to spread out the cost over time, want to learn the ins and outs of the rifle, and hand pick the parts. I really want to start building now because I've got a decent amount of spare time to do it. However, I would like to build a pre ban rifle. I don't have the money for a pre ban lower and probably wouldn't buy one whether the ban ends or not. Would it be ok, to buy a postban stripped lower and a preban upper? I know this is technically illegal but there's a chance I probably won't even finish the project until september and even if I do I'm not going to let it leave the house until the ban ends. If the ban is renewed I'll just pin the stock, dremel the lug, and pin a muzzle brake in place of a flash hider. Anyone think this is a bad idea. I really just wanna get started on this b/c I have some time to spend on it right now and really don't want to wait.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 6:41:14 AM EST
The only bad idea I see, is posting your intentions on a public forum.

Especially on a forum frequented the alphabet boys.......


This might be something that interests ya:

Read the Committee print of “The Right to Keep and Bear Arms”; Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary/ US. Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session, published in February 1982.
(Excerpts from pages 19-23)

“Based upon these hearings it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible. Although Congress adopted the Gun Control Act with the primary object of limiting access of felons and high-risk groups to firearms, the overbreadth of the law has led to neglect of precisely this area of enforcement.”

“The Bureau’s (BATF) own figures demonstrate that in recent years the percentage of its arrests devoted to felons in possession and persons knowingly selling to them have dropped from 14% down to 10% of their firearms cases.”

“Yet, subsequent to these hearings, BATF stated that 55% of its gun law prosecutions overall involve persons with no record of a felony conviction, and a third involve citizens with no prior police contact at all.
The Subcommittee received evidence that BATF has primarily devoted its firearm enforcement efforts to the apprehension, upon technical malum prohibitum charges, of individuals who lack all criminal intent and knowledge.”
(this won't apply to you 'cus ya know your violating the law w/ your proposal)

“These practices, amply documented in hearings before this Subcommittee, leave little doubt that the Bureau has disregarded rights guaranteed by the constitution and the laws of the United States.
It has trampled upon the second amendment by chilling exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens.
It has offended the fourth amendment by unreasonably searching and seizing property.
It has ignored the Fifth Amendment by taking private property without just compensation and by entrapping honest citizens without regard for their right to due process of law.”

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 9:08:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 9:13:23 AM EST by otto_esq]
First, Welcome to the board.

Second, yes it is a bad idea.

Violating 18 USC 922(v) is a 5-year felony. A felony conviction prevents you from ever owning firearms again. Having an illegal gun that never leaves the house is not a legal defense -- ask those folks in Waco. Oh, sorry. You can't.

There are several legal options, especially when you state that you may not even be done by next September anyhow.
Time is not the issue in building an AR; you can assemble on from start to finish, including mounting a barrel to the upper receiver, in an afternoon.
Money is the issue with AR's. You have time but not much money. Selecting the parts for an AR can easily take up all your time and money between now and September.

To build an AR before September and stay legal:

Option 1, pre-ban features: Buy everything but the lower receiver. Selecting and assembling the upper receiver and the lower parts and buttstock items will not be pocket change. Then in September, buy the lower and do the final assembly. You can also leave everything in parts form, for there is no "constructive possession" of non-NFA firearms, but the temptation may be too great, and pushing in the pins on an "assault weapon"-styled upper on a post-ban lower is a felony. Therefore, I do not recommend having all of the parts on hand, ready to go together, and the serial numbered lower receiver is the "firearm" portion, without which all you have are parts.

Option 2, post-ban legal: Assemble your first AR with parts that won't become undesirable in September, I.e. an A2 or Ace tubular stock, and a Bushmaster Izzy, or some other desireable muzzle brake. Cjhanging the parts to a colapsable stock and flash hider would be barely $100 on the cheap in October. You can even have the parts on hand -- just don't replace the post-ban parts with the preban ones before the expiration date or again, its a felony.

If you have enough money before September, go with Option 2; if money is too tight, save the lower reciever for last -- installing a stock and the lower parts kit takes less than 2 hours, and that includes reading the instruction manual.

Be patient and stay legal, for if you are impatient and break the law, it can affect the rest of your life in very major ways. Take this as free advice from a lawyer .

Cheers, Otto
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:28:38 AM EST
thanks for the advice.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 7:17:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 7:18:38 PM EST by NESurvival]
I say start building now, avoid constructive intent, and finish and post pics on Sept. 14.

Start Now! Do it - slowly. Build the lower and maybe borrow an upper for function test. Assemble your pre-ban upper and store it somewhere else other than your house. Keep the two parts in separate locations until Sept. - never together.

Anyone disagree that no law is broken in the above scenario?

Editd for speling.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:31:42 PM EST
I would say wait untill Sept. to do any of that risky buisness, You never know come Aug. the liberals may have some kind of protest or who knows what. It would be ashame to have started something as pricey like you are and then things take a turn for the worse.

Patience is a virtue worth having....................
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:06:00 PM EST
Wait for the ban to expire. Don't build an illegal weapon, it isn't worth it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:06:40 PM EST
It isn't worth it to do anything illegal, but if you are simply buying parts, there is nothing illegal with that.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:19:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By POOR_MAN:
I would say wait untill Sept. to do any of that risky buisness, You never know come Aug. the liberals may have some kind of protest or who knows what. It would be ashame to have started something as pricey like you are and then things take a turn for the worse.

Patience is a virtue worth having....................

That or Bush might sell us out. Republicans are liberal, democrats are conservative. What's this world comming to!
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:16:46 AM EST
A post ban lower with a preban upper WITH OUT A GAS TUBE is a bolt action weapon! As long as you don't build it in a way that your rifle meets the definition of the crime bill your weapon would be legal.

As an example, I have a NON-BAN AR-15 pistol! I say non-ban as it is a BOLT ACTION and there is no ban on bolt action pistols. I have a brand new 11.5-in barrel sitting in the safe to convert my AR-pistol to semi auto on 9-14!

I don't suggest putting it together as an illegal weapon BUT as long as you are smart about how you do things you should be fine. In my oppinion, I would build the entire rifle or carbine with no gas tube and you can even take it out and shoot it that way as a charging handle operated bolt action. After the crime bill dies or is renewed you can do what you need to to make the weapon legal if you want a semi-auto.

Note: Just my humble oppinions... This is still playing with fire but legal IMHO
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:56:35 AM EST
Why even chance something like that ? Whats the point just wait until Sept 15th, if the ban sunsets you are fine if not build it the way you have to. Don't be stupid be smart.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:02:26 AM EST
same here.....I have parts...waiting on the ban to expire......nothing assembled......ALL parts....
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