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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/17/2015 5:10:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 5:10:59 PM EST by Weldingrod]
... on the IMI production line?

I have used a fair bit of 55 grain Independence 556 in High Power matches and had a problem with significant fliers. About 10% would go wild at 200 yards, Most in the ten ring and then the fliers would jump out into the 8 or even 7 ring. I am an experienced shooter and match shooter and can call my shots accurately. It wasn't me.

I am considering stocking up on IMI M193 556 ammo. But if it is the same stuff that goes into the Independence box I am not interested.

Are IMI and Independence coming off the same line?

Thanks

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 5:26:51 PM EST
I don't think they are.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 6:27:15 PM EST
Independance ammo boxes state that it is made in Israel if that helps you.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:04:21 PM EST
From my understanding, it's made by IMI using components supplied to them by Federal/ATK.


Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:11:08 PM EST
I bought 1500 rounds and shot some today for the first time.

I was not impressed with accuracy. All went boom but seems
to be minute of man ammo.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:24:19 PM EST
Which did you buy, IMI or Independence?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:26:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Banditman:
I bought 1500 rounds and shot some today for the first time.

I was not impressed with accuracy. All went boom but seems
to be minute of man ammo.
View Quote

Independence? How far out did you shoot it?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:36:08 PM EST

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Originally Posted By p226guy:

Independence? How far out did you shoot it?
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Originally Posted By p226guy:
Originally Posted By Banditman:
I bought 1500 rounds and shot some today for the first time.

I was not impressed with accuracy. All went boom but seems
to be minute of man ammo.

Independence? How far out did you shoot it?


100 yards, It shot much worse than the Wolf Gold i was shooting at the same time.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:43:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Banditman:



100 yards, It shot much worse than the Wolf Gold i was shooting at the same time.
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Originally Posted By Banditman:

Originally Posted By p226guy:
Originally Posted By Banditman:
I bought 1500 rounds and shot some today for the first time.

I was not impressed with accuracy. All went boom but seems
to be minute of man ammo.

Independence? How far out did you shoot it?


100 yards, It shot much worse than the Wolf Gold i was shooting at the same time.

How big were the groups? I have 200 rounds of this stuff.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 5:46:07 PM EST
3" to 4" wolf was about 1.5" to 2"
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 6:26:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 6:26:45 PM EST by Weldingrod]
Banditman - So are you talking about Independence or IMI ammo?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:00:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Weldingrod:
Banditman - So are you talking about Independence or IMI ammo?
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Independence made by IMI
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:05:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 12:25:39 AM EST by bfoosh06]
Originally Posted By Weldingrod:
... on the IMI production line?

I have used a fair bit of 55 grain Independence 556 in High Power matches and had a problem with significant fliers. About 10% would go wild at 200 yards, Most in the ten ring and then the fliers would jump out into the 8 or even 7 ring. I am an experienced shooter and match shooter and can call my shots accurately. It wasn't me.

I am considering stocking up on IMI M193 556 ammo. But if it is the same stuff that goes into the Independence box I am not interested.

Are IMI and Independence coming off the same line?

Thanks

View Quote


I don't know if it is coming off the same assembly line ( probably....)..... but I can say that I have not heard the same complaints about IMI 5.56 M193.... hence they are using better quality components. It is obvious that QC on IMI 5.56 M193 is far better then the Independence line. I would buy IMI 5.56 M193 and M855 unhesitantly.

I also truly believe the Fed. Indepedence has completely different load specs. Using as cheap as possible components.... as well as a different powder.
Given the accuracy between the two current production runs.... the Independence brand was awful as well as way faster then normal.
The IMI 5.56 M193 was completely normal speed and accuracy.

Velocity results 55gr Independence and IMI 5.56 M193.....Brand, Headstamp, 16" , 20" , comments.

IMI M193..................................TZZ 89........................Av. 2997, ES 74................Av. 3194, ES 24...........................IMI from '89
IMI 55gr FMJ 5.56.. .................IMI 14 2 digits.............Av 3158.....ES 69...............Av 3180....ES 38 ........................'14 IMI

Independence 55gr (XM193I).. FC 2,1, 13.................Av. 3195, ES 50.................Av. 3343, ES 94..........................Same type of headstamp as IMI 77gr , 4 MOA

I am sending you an IM concerning more accurate 55gr FMJ ammo.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 9:10:44 PM EST
I didnt care for the Independance ammo either but have several thousand rounds of IMI and the only stuff

I liked as much as IMI was the ADI ammo and it was very accurate ammo as well.

Both will shoot 1 inch or better at 100 yrds.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:47:58 PM EST
Thanks for the help guys.

Bfoosh - I am IM you back. Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 11:17:35 AM EST
I shot 40 rounds of the Independence today with no issues. Can't speak to accuracy as I was shooting fast from around 25yd.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:31:42 PM EST
Just an FYI there seems to be one ( or more ) lots of Indepedence that are loaded very hot... that is the one I tested.

Some other people have had perfectly normal velocities... that is why I dislike it.

It should be more consistent then it is... somewhere along the production line that fast lot got thru the Quality control... and if the QC is that bad then who is to say there isn't a worse over-pressure lot.

I truly believe OEM ammo needs to be consistent in the QC aspect... we rely on the manufacturer to do through QC... especially in context to operating pressure.

The current IMI 5.56 M193 hasn't had these issues... so that "line" is more than likely getting all the quality checks, more so since it is "front line ammo".

Sometimes dirt cheap ammo ( or products ) from the other side of the globe cut corners to keep costs down.

BTW, It is my understanding that the Indepedence line is loaded by IMI , to Federal specifications. I am not pointing fingers... I am saying that the Current Indepedence 5.56x45 is not a consistent ammo. One that I do not recommend because of the velocity inconsistencies, and the resulting in-accuracy.

There is other, consistent ammo for about the same price that I would buy instead.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:57:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
SNIP

There is other, consistent ammo for about the same price that I would buy instead.

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Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:02:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:



Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
SNIP

There is other, consistent ammo for about the same price that I would buy instead.




Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.


The Wolf Gold on Aim is a good deal. I shot some Saturday and shot sub 1" groups
at 50 yards.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:42:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:



Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
SNIP

There is other, consistent ammo for about the same price that I would buy instead.




Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.

I would not hesitate to purchase the IMI. Especially when the M193 is pretty cheap right now.


Link Posted: 1/20/2015 9:23:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:



Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.
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Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
SNIP

There is other, consistent ammo for about the same price that I would buy instead.




Well what is it??? Is it a secret? Pm me if needed,I'm about to order a case of IMI.


IM sent.
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