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Posted: 9/15/2023 4:09:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think non LEO's can buy TAP.
Hornady Black has a 75gr soft point. But there are plenty of other 62/64 gr soft points out there. Or some 75/77gr OTM/SMK/TMK options work great as well. Just depends on what you want. Hell, some people still rock the standard 55gr fmj's. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 4:13:33 PM EDT
[#2]
You can still buy TAP, but tends to be at LE supply stores. With that you usually need LEO/public servant credentials to shop. In my experience, military affiliation has been included to qualify patrons
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Posted: 9/15/2023 4:38:32 PM EDT
[#3]
So you are saying that, as a civilian, I cannot purchase TAP ammo? Would the 55gr VMax not be the same round? They are both ballistic tip 55gr ballistic tip bullets, aren't they?
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Posted: 9/15/2023 5:01:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I hope so. I have 19 rounds left out of the 300bo TAP I have in my HD Rattler.
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Posted: 9/15/2023 5:28:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are saying that, as a civilian, I cannot purchase TAP ammo? Would the 55gr VMax not be the same round? They are both ballistic tip 55gr ballistic tip bullets, aren't they? In 300blk, 110gr TAP Urban is 110gr V-max in a different box. Might have a nickel case and some flash suppressor in the powder (maybe), but the same bullet. https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/110-gr-tap-urban-300-blackout#!/ https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-blackout-110-gr-v-max-black#!/ I'm guessing the 55gr Urban TAP is probably the same thing. https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/55-gr-tap-urban#!/ https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/223-rem-55-gr-v-max#!/ |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 6:01:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are saying that, as a civilian, I cannot purchase TAP ammo? Would the 55gr VMax not be the same round? They are both ballistic tip 55gr ballistic tip bullets, aren't they? In 233 55gr vmax doesn’t penetrate deeply enough to be used as a Duty or Defensive load. I’d rather use M193 over any Polymer Tipped round other than TMK. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 6:28:31 PM EDT
[#7]
M193 at close range gets it done.
Alternative might be Bonded like the Federal Fusion line (over the counter no LEO credentials required). Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 9/15/2023 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 9/15/2023 7:04:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Saw it on the shelf a couple months ago but it was LEO purchase only.
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Posted: 9/15/2023 7:17:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are saying that, as a civilian, I cannot purchase TAP ammo? Would the 55gr VMax not be the same round? They are both ballistic tip 55gr ballistic tip bullets, aren't they? I’m not saying that at all. I’ve seen it come up for sale at online retailers every now and then. The hurdle is not due to the ammo construction, but it’s tax status. I believe ammo produced for LE use, or at least intended for LE use, is exempt from excise taxes and is why you don’t see it offered in general retail outlets. Federal has similar distinction with its LE HST and those marketed for home/personal defense. Probably why you see personal defense lines packaged in 20rd boxes vs 50rd boxes sold as LE ammo. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 10:02:14 PM EDT
[#11]
How about something like this as an alternative -
https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rifle-ammo/223-remington-ammo/federal-223-rem-ammunition-ft223t-55-grain-tactical-tru-ballistic-tip-20-rounds/ |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 10:50:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about something like this as an alternative - https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rifle-ammo/223-remington-ammo/federal-223-rem-ammunition-ft223t-55-grain-tactical-tru-ballistic-tip-20-rounds/ Like the TAP urban/Vmax it fails to meet minimum penetration standards. However if you absolutely insist on using a Poly tipped round the TRU is crimped and sealed plus I like the Nosler BT for varmint hunting but that’s me. If you’re absolutely concerned with the over penetration non sense Federals 64gr soft point loaded in the TRU line is better or any Load using the Hornady 75gr BTHP. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 9:29:54 AM EDT
[#13]
How about this one? Seems to knock the dogshit out of critters. Might be good for the two-legged variety?
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/review-federal-premium-barnes-tsx-ammo/ |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 11:11:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Is this still a viable option in a home defense rifle or is there a better alternative in 55gr. 55 grain Hornady VMAX has NEVER been a viable load for self defense. It is about the worst possible choice someone could make in selecting a self defense load. The ONLY ballistic tip bullet that has adequate penetration in .223,/5.56 is the 77 grain TMK. Yes, there are better alternatives in 55 grain. Though, you should not select a 55 grain load IMO unless you have a 1/12 twist. Better alternatives include Federal Tactical Bonded and 55 grain Barnes TSX based loads. If you have a 1/9 twist or faster the Federal Fusion MSR is a great choice with the 62 grain Gold Dot bullet and is widely available. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 11:15:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about something like this as an alternative - https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rifle-ammo/223-remington-ammo/federal-223-rem-ammunition-ft223t-55-grain-tactical-tru-ballistic-tip-20-rounds/ How about, something with established, effective terminal ballistic properties . . . Fragmenting: Sierra 77 grain Tipped MatchKing Nosler 77 grain CC Hornady 75 grain Tap T2 Blind to barriers: Nosler 64 grain Bonded Solid Base Speer 62/64 grain Gold Dot Federal/Speer 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Black Hills/Barnes 50 grain TSX .... |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 11:33:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about, something with established, effective terminal ballistic properties . . . Fragmenting: Sierra 77 grain Tipped MatchKing Nosler 77 grain CC Hornady 75 grain Tap T2 Blind to barriers: Nosler 64 grain Bonded Solid Base Speer 62/64 grain Gold Dot Federal/Speer 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Black Hills/Barnes 50 grain TSX .... I'm posted those because they seem to retain the most weight after penetration. I'm looking at these because of positive reviews from large game animals such as deer. I'm pretty new to ballistics but have had ar's for several years. I've mostly plinked. The last time I shot for score was '89 in the USMCR. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 12:40:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm posted those because they seem to retain the most weight after penetration. I'm looking at these because of positive reviews from large game animals such as deer. I'm pretty new to ballistics but have had ar's for several years. I've mostly plinked. The last time I shot for score was '89 in the USMCR. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How about, something with established, effective terminal ballistic properties . . . Fragmenting: Sierra 77 grain Tipped MatchKing Nosler 77 grain CC Hornady 75 grain Tap T2 Blind to barriers: Nosler 64 grain Bonded Solid Base Speer 62/64 grain Gold Dot Federal/Speer 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Black Hills/Barnes 50 grain TSX .... I'm posted those because they seem to retain the most weight after penetration. I'm looking at these because of positive reviews from large game animals such as deer. I'm pretty new to ballistics but have had ar's for several years. I've mostly plinked. The last time I shot for score was '89 in the USMCR. As Hyrum-22 pointed out, the Federal ft223t load won't even meet the minimum specification for penetration in bare gel. .... |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 5.56mm Hornady TAP My God it is expensive. I paid $35 a box of 50 last time I bought it. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 1:51:04 PM EDT
[#19]
I think I'm just going to save everyone time and bother by just explaining what I am using and them based off of that, let everyone give me their recommendations.
PSA 16" pencil barrel, 1n7 twist, midlength gas, freefloat, trigger is a CMC/Lantac ECT1 Single Stage Trigger 3.5lb. Optics are an Eotech XPS2 with circle/dot reticle Practice/Plinking ammo is a mix of 55gr ball ammo from various manufacturers I am not a 3-gunner, hunter, or varminter. My intended usage will be practice/training/home defense/SHTF. I am looking for maximum weight retention and intermediate barrier penetration to include car windshields. Now, give me your recommendations. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 2:20:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not a 3-gunner, hunter, or varminter. My intended usage will be practice/training/home defense/SHTF. I am looking for maximum weight retention and intermediate barrier penetration to include car windshields. Now, give me your recommendations. We have been. Bigger_Hammer, Molon and myself have made suggestions on better ammo than varmint rounds. The list that Molon posted is THE list of top preforming duty/defense ammo. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 2:53:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I'm just going to save everyone time and bother by just explaining what I am using and them based off of that, let everyone give me their recommendations. PSA 16" pencil barrel, 1n7 twist, midlength gas, freefloat, trigger is a CMC/Lantac ECT1 Single Stage Trigger 3.5lb. Optics are an Eotech XPS2 with circle/dot reticle Practice/Plinking ammo is a mix of 55gr ball ammo from various manufacturers I am not a 3-gunner, hunter, or varminter. My intended usage will be practice/training/home defense/SHTF. I am looking for maximum weight retention and intermediate barrier penetration to include car windshields. Now, give me your recommendations. To answer your original question. The 55gr TAP Urban is not really a thing anymore. It is basically the 55gr V-max round, and there are better HD rounds than 55gr Vmax. Plus, non LEO's often struggle to get TAP ammo. As far as what to get, that is up to you. I went with the 75/77gr BTHP/OTM/SMK's for my 5.56 guns. Some folks with went the 62/64 gr soft point/bonded stuff. There is also the 50gr TSX. Some folks stuck with 55gr M193 I think a vast majority of folks are either in the 75/77 gr rounds or 62/64gr rounds if they are not sticking with M193. Very few folks run light V-max in 5.56. (110gr V-max at 300blk velocity is a different story.) |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 3:25:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Fellas, I appreciate your patience. I'm not trying to be a horse's ass, I'm just not a shooter. I rarely get to shoot so I don't know what works and I've fallen out of really reading about the current trends and developments. I'm just getting back into shooting, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to school me.
I just want to get back into shooting and get ammunition that my gun likes and approximates what I practice with since it's what I can afford and what my gun is sighted in with. If heavier equates to better, then I suppose that I will have run with. I was initially looking at what is referred to as a monolithic bullet (62/64 gr solid copper) that retains much of it's weight with "petals" even after passing through auto glass. I don't foresee having to do so, but I want to cover all of my bases just in case. If that style of bullet is not as effective as say a 75/77 gr, then I suppose that is what I will be running. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 4:19:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Generally speaking
The 62/64gr stuff is expands, is barrier blind, retains its weight, and is more consistent. The 75/77gr stuff delivers more energy, is (often) more accurate, and carries its energy a longer distance (better BC). "When" it fragments, it is more devastating, but consistent fragmentation isn't always a thing (except for the TMK)'s. Look at it like this: The 75/77gr BTHP, OTM's, and SMK's are basically bigger, better versions of M193 (hence Mk262). 77gr TMK's are basically, bigger better versions of 55gr V-max. The FBI uses the 62/64gr stuff. What is "better" is a Coke/Pepsi thing. I got into 75gr Frontier and 77gr IMI because of the carried energy, and at the time, the super cheap price from Midway. I'm sure a bunch of folks got into 62/64gr Gold Dots (or Fusion, can't remember) because PSA was running them on clearance for cheap. Edit: This is arfcom. Get both. Shoot what your barrel likes best, and/or what is best on your wallet. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 4:31:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not a 3-gunner, hunter, or varminter. My intended usage will be practice/training/home defense/SHTF. I am looking for maximum weight retention and intermediate barrier penetration to include car windshields. Now, give me your recommendations. How many different times do you want us to say the same thing? The four bullets that I listed for you under blind to barriers are some of the best performing duty/self defense projectiles manufactured for 5.56/233 Remington for use where intervening barriers are likely to be encountered. ... |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:40:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many different times do you want us to say the same thing? The four bullets that I listed for you under blind to barriers are some of the best performing duty/self defense projectiles manufactured for 5.56/233 Remington for use where intervening barriers are likely to be encountered. ... I'm apologize for not being as knowledgeable as you. I thought I made it clear that I was merely a hobbyist and not serious shooter. Thank you for the information. . |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:12:54 PM EDT
[#26]
So why are you looking for the gun shop buzz word ‘barrier blind’ rounds if you are just a hobbyist? How many car widows and barriers do you foresee having to shoot through with a 5.56?
If you are hung up on that buzzword I’d just buy some aac 5.56 70gr tsx and be done with it. Outside of that I’d stack mk262 clones or tmk deep. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:38:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Outside of that I’d stack mk262 clones or deep.
That's what I'm doing. I wasn't looking for buzzword ammo. I was looking for best bang for my buck ammo. Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:52:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Barrier Blind isn’t a buzz word the most effective duty ammo is barrier blind. Also TSX sheds its petals after passing through auto glass except for the Black hills 50gr optimized. 62gr Gold dot/ Fusion is what you should look into.
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Posted: 9/19/2023 10:09:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Just buy 62 grain Federal Fusion MSR. It is the 62 grain bonded Gold Dot bullet, with cannelure, crimped for use in a semi auto. It is what we use at my department as our .223/5.56 duty load. It is not hard to find like Black Hills TSX or Federal Tactical TBBC loads.
It is capable of sub MOA groups in good barrels. It is sub 2 MOA in pretty much all barrels. It is not going to be as cheap as FMJ. Nothing is. Just use FMJ for 25 yard and in speed drills where 4 MOA ammo still shoots under 1" group sizes. The hold over will be identical to your duty/defense load. The zero shift will also be indistinguishable at 25 yards. Use your Fusion for everything else... long range zero, long range practice, or checking long range dope. Use it for your home defense magazine and on your load bearing gear. Stack it back until you have over 1000 rounds saved up at least. You never know when it will get discontinued, be hard to find, have a powder formula change, etc. For 25y and in speed practice you should never waste your good ammo. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 10:54:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm apologize for not being as knowledgeable as you. I thought I made it clear that I was merely a hobbyist and not serious shooter. Thank you for the information. . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many different times do you want us to say the same thing? The four bullets that I listed for you under blind to barriers are some of the best performing duty/self defense projectiles manufactured for 5.56/233 Remington for use where intervening barriers are likely to be encountered. ... I'm apologize for not being as knowledgeable as you. I thought I made it clear that I was merely a hobbyist and not serious shooter. Thank you for the information. . Molon is an absolute asset when it comes to ammunition performance. Whether hobbyist or “serious shooter” if you ask a question about ammo and Molon responds it is beneficial to listen and take his advise. Many have learned well from him. YMMV |
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