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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/23/2004 8:42:27 AM EST
When I shoot at 50 yards, I have the rear sight (with the center than can flip back and forth). I am shooting thru the smaller size hole at 50 yards. Is this wrong? I just read somewhere that I should be shooting thru the bigger aperture hole at close range and the smaller one at longer distance? Does this make sense?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:44:20 AM EST
if yer shooting at targets...yer doing just fine the larger arperature is for CQB type stuff, shooting at the real deal, not just plinkin at targets.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:45:33 AM EST
the small hole is for 200 plus.
the big hole is for 25 and less.
if your shooting at 50 yds. use what ever hole you like.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:45:44 AM EST
Whew cool..... thanks man!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:46:47 AM EST
and don't feel like a dork for asking a simple question.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:47:40 AM EST
At 50 yards, the sight you choose is up to you. You should zero your sights at 50 yards using the small apature (small hole in the rear sight) via the Improved Battlesight Zero by LTC Chuck Santose. For fast aquisition of targets at typical combat ranges (<100 meters, and usually <50 meters) use the large apature. For precision shooting, use the small.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:37:01 AM EST
I find I can get tighter groups with using the smaller apature.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:01:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
use what ever hole you like.



Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:06:21 AM EST
I was reading some USN Special Warfare training materials, and they use the small aperture for daylight shooting, and the large aperture for night time.

But hey, do what gets you the best results for your shooting!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:26:28 AM EST
The 93 colt ar15 manual that came with mine shows a picture of the large hole and a shadow figure of a man running. It shows the small hole beside a shadow figure of a man standing still. I am sure that political correctness has changed this in current manuals.

I use the small hole at all distances. Never shot at running shadows.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 12:35:53 PM EST
That's what she said.

(I had to say it).


Originally Posted By hk940:
the small hole is for 200 plus.
the big hole is for 25 and less.
if your shooting at 50 yds. use what ever hole you like.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:32:43 PM EST
Also consider that if you have an A1 rear sight, that the apertures are not the same height above bore; they are actually calibrated for different ranges. You most likely have an A2, and the only difference is the size of the hole.

~Doug
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:33:29 PM EST
No problem Jivana, I do that all the time when shooting at targets. The large hole is "too" big.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:13:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:23:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
You most likely have an A2, and the only difference is the size of the hole.



The apertures of the A2 also have different heights above the bore. The difference varies between 3-6MOA depending on manufacturer. This offset is designed in to bring a 300M zero closer to the line of sight at the max ordinate.

The large (marked 0-2) aperture of the A2 is described by various manuals as the "close range, moving target, low light" aperture. Some, like me, know that 0-2 stands for 0-200 metres.



+1

Also:

First, at 50 yards you should be using the LARGE aperture. There are many reasons for this, the main ones are faster sight acquisition and enhanced low light capability.

Zero at 50 with the LARGE aperture. If you zero with the small aperture and then shoot with the large aperture, your zero will be off (you will be shooting low).

Use the large aperture back to 250 yards or so, then switch to the small aperture - you will be close to a 300 yard zero with the small aperture. Beyond 300 yards, just crank up your elevation wheel as required.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:35:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By steveamy:

Originally Posted By hk940:
use what ever hole you like.






Look through the pooper and post pics.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:38:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By gaijin:

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
You most likely have an A2, and the only difference is the size of the hole.



The apertures of the A2 also have different heights above the bore. The difference varies between 3-6MOA depending on manufacturer. This offset is designed in to bring a 300M zero closer to the line of sight at the max ordinate.

The large (marked 0-2) aperture of the A2 is described by various manuals as the "close range, moving target, low light" aperture. Some, like me, know that 0-2 stands for 0-200 metres.



+1

Also:

First, at 50 yards you should be using the LARGE aperture. There are many reasons for this, the main ones are faster sight acquisition and enhanced low light capability.

Zero at 50 with the LARGE aperture. If you zero with the small aperture and then shoot with the large aperture, your zero will be off (you will be shooting low).

Use the large aperture back to 250 yards or so, then switch to the small aperture - you will be close to a 300 yard zero with the small aperture. Beyond 300 yards, just crank up your elevation wheel as required.




WRONG! Tweak has it correct. Set BZO with the small ap. at 50 yards set at 8/3 -2. Adjust front sight post ONLY (except for wind). Adjust so you're dead on to just slightly low at 50 and you will be dead on at 200, dead on at 300 @ 8/3.

0-2 (large) ap. for low light, close up and should put you close @100 yrds using above method.

Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:31:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 11:37:00 PM EST by Tweak]
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:45:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 4:56:16 AM EST by TeuffelHunden1775]

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:
WRONG! Tweak has it correct. Set BZO with the small ap. at 50 yards set at 8/3 -2.



I never said anything about how to zero Devil Dog, just corrected the info about the apertures.

There are a thousand ways to zero these things and the "how" of it doesn't matter. Only hits count.

The A-2 ap was designed for use with the Army 300M zero. That's POI/POA at 25M with the RSB set 8/3+1 (then rotated back to 8/3 after 25M zero) but that process results in a high (head shot) 300M zero. A better 300M zero is obtained by zeroing low (~.8") at 25M or zeroing POI/POA at 25M with the RSB set at 8/3+3 then rotated back to 8/3 after zeroing. Both result in a COM 300M zero.

I use M and Yds interchangeably. At the distances these rifles are commonly used that doesn't matter. It does matter when someone starts mathematizing the trajectories tho

Your zero is your business but if you show up for a class and can't hit my targets I will laugh at you.



I realize you didn't say anything about how to zero. I added that as own 2 cents based on original post. I was just reiterating your statement on the aperture use. And, yes, we also used the 1,000 inch BZO in the Corps @8/3 +1. This put you on at 300 with rear sight set @8/3. The Corps now uses a 36 yards BZO @8/3. However, I feel, through experience the Improved is a much better method, especially for civilian use or close up (CQB). Like I said, I added that BZO method for the benefit of the original poster.

And, as an aside, I gaurantee I'll hit my targets at any range. No "high-speed" gizmo's, either. Just a good 'ole fashion heavy barrel 20" A2. It is good to see you know which hole to shoot through, though.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:32:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 2:10:54 PM EST
A little off the subject. A machinist friend of mine that shoots Highpower Comp. did a neat little trick. He made an aperature insert, by taking a 1/4" flat head screw and cut it down to where it had just a few threads left, then drilled a very small hole dead center (he's a perfectionist) (sorry, don't know the exact diameter) that was the size of the 10 ring on a 100 yd. match target. This is a smaller hole than the long range aperature. He gave me one that he made. All I had too do was thread the battle aperature with a 1/4" tap and screw in the insert (a little Loc-tite recommended). Works great. If I ever need a battle sight, I just unscrew it. A smaller front blade would help also if you're going for the accuracy option.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 2:26:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 2:31:32 PM EST by Bradd_D]

Originally Posted By gaijin:

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
You most likely have an A2, and the only difference is the size of the hole.



The apertures of the A2 also have different heights above the bore. The difference varies between 3-6MOA depending on manufacturer. This offset is designed in to bring a 300M zero closer to the line of sight at the max ordinate.

The large (marked 0-2) aperture of the A2 is described by various manuals as the "close range, moving target, low light" aperture. Some, like me, know that 0-2 stands for 0-200 metres.



+1

Also:

First, at 50 yards you should be using the LARGE aperture. There are many reasons for this, the main ones are faster sight acquisition and enhanced low light capability.

Zero at 50 with the LARGE aperture. If you zero with the small aperture and then shoot with the large aperture, your zero will be off (you will be shooting low).

Use the large aperture back to 250 yards or so, then switch to the small aperture - you will be close to a 300 yard zero with the small aperture. Beyond 300 yards, just crank up your elevation wheel as required.




A portion of the Santose IBZ from the Maryland AR15 website:

"6. Battlesight the rifle per the -10 with the following exceptions:

1. Sight should be at 8/3 -2 clicks, that is, all the way down, not up a click. Please note removable handle sights are marked 6/3 (rather than 8/3); also some are in ‘half-clicks’ as well. There should be 3 clicks between 3 and 4 on the knob. If there are 6 clicks then the sight needs to be set at –4 clicks (instead of –2).

2. Small aperture, nose to firing handle weld.

3. Distance is 50 yards.

4. Point of aim should be point of impact of bullet.

7. Remember you're adjusting the FRONT SIGHT for elevation, not the rear, and that each click is about 1/2" (actually a little more) at 50 yards. You won't get it closer than that. Don't frustrate yourself trying.

8. You're done. Leave the sight in this position for 99% of your shooting.

9. If you have to shoot targets you KNOW are 300 meters away or more, just click to the right number on the sight.

10. If you're patrolling, set the sight to 8/3 and snap the aperture forward to 0-2. This will provide the same trajectory as above but with a larger, easier to see thru rear sight. Use this setting if you also have the M68 mounted as it's quicker to transition to if the sight fails."

This method keeps both apertures on the same plane.



Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:42:49 AM EST
Define Dork. I define dork as "That stage of life for a human beings when they can walk but can not talk." Usually comes between toddler and terrible two.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:49:36 AM EST
I never use the larger hole unless it is low light or shooting with a pro mask. Even doing CQB I dont use the larger hole. In CQB I sight over the top of the rifle, not even useing sights at all. This is the way I have ALWAYS been taught in both the Marine Corps and the Army. I have seen a lot of people in the Army use the larger hole for certain things but I have never heard it in any PMI class.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:41:46 PM EST
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