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Posted: 1/4/2006 10:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 10:09:53 PM EDT by Apostolos]
I purchased a TA31F and it’s turned out to be a fine optic after getting it sighted in. However, because of the shorter eye relief, I can't run a Troy rear backup sight in the normal position, behind the ACOG.

I have to run the ACOG farther back on the rail because of the shorter eye relief. I really don't want to crane my head forward so my only option for a BUIS is to place it in front of the ACOG.

So my question is:

Do you agree with keeping the TA31f and running the Troy BUIS in the non traditional spot in front of the ACOG?

Or do you think I should sell the TA31f and replace it with a TA11f with a longer eye relief and put the Troy where it should be? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I do like the higher magnification, wider field of view, and the more compact size of the TA31F over the TA11F. Those were big selling points for me. Is it worth it to run the Troy in the weird position? Thanks again.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:12:47 PM EDT

"Do you agree with keeping the TA31f and running the Troy BUIS in the non traditional spot in front of the ACOG?

Or do you think I should sell the TA31f and replace it with a TA11f with a longer eye relief and put the Troy where it should be? Thanks."



What? Your missing the point-- you are going to have to take off the acog to use the backup sight anyway-- why not then have the back up under the sight? Just remove the ACOG and flip up the iron sight. I reccomend having a QD mount as the ACOG std mount sometimes can become locked up and difficult to remove ever being heavilly tightened whereas a throwlever mount will always readilly come off when you need it to.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 10:37:13 PM EDT by Apostolos]

Originally Posted By Green0:
Your missing the point-- you are going to have to take off the acog to use the backup sight anyway-- why not then have the back up under the sight?



When you say, "under the sight" I assume you mean running the Troy in the normal rear position (behind the ACOG, in the down position, with the ACOG hanging over the top of it), just like in almost ever picture we see in this forum.

I can't run the Troy behind the ACOG. I've got to run the ACOG almost to the complete rear of the upper with only the T1 slot exposed. That does not leave room for the Troy anywhere in the rear.

God Bless,
David
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:21:23 PM EDT
I agree that you should learn to shoot NTCH and then this is a mute point.......
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 11:33:54 PM EDT by Green0]
You need to collapse your stock two positions and swing your rifle to a more forward position in relation to the direction in which your body is pointing. IE your chest is forward, your rifle should be pointing in nearly the same direction.

That old point with the left shoulder method is gone with the wind. In defense you should have a plate facing forward at the enemy, or in otherwords you should be standing behind it.

The forward approach will also help by putting your body behind the weapon, affording you better recoil control. It's a carbine- not a hunting rifle.

Once you collapse the stock slightly and swing your muzzle to the right [assuming you are right handed], you should have your problem solved.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:29:26 AM EDT
I appreciate the advice. I do not feel the need to change my stance/grip with the rifle. I'm just interested in counsel regarding the question(s) mentioned in the original post. Thanks.

God Bless,
David
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:30:22 AM EDT by MadDogDan]
People keep bringing up the idea of moving the BUIS forward of the optic but I don't see how you can use the BUIS even if you take the optic off first. Just by the nature of how a BUIS works, all AR rear sights are considered a "peep" sight. By it's very nature you have to run it up close to your eye so that the sights aperture blocks out your periferal (sp?) vision and you are looking through a very small aperture closing down your field of view. Remember, for those longer shots you switch to a smaller aperture which shrinks down your field of view even farther. If you stick the BUIS mid way on the upper (4" or 5") farther than the recomended eye relief, you can't possiblt see through the aperture. At that point you are looking around the peep sight. I have tried moving my BUIS forward to test my theory and I just don't see how you can make it work. It doesn't.

Just my .02
MadDog
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:46:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 4:49:42 AM EDT by Lancelot]
Get a LaRue fixed BUIS. Mount if forward of the ACOG or on the handguard rails for "storage." The LaRue is a return to zero sight, and is quickly removed and remounted using the throw lever. It is very common for GI's to sight in the irons on their carry handles, then "store" the handle on the forward rails, so this is not unheard of, and has been proven to work.

Oh and the LaRue sight is cheaper then most folders......



Mount the LaRue sight on the rail (all the way back where it belongs) and sight it in. Then remove it and park it someplace else. Forward of the ACOG on the top rail, or wherever you think it will be out of the way. Because most ACOGs are 4x, the LaRue parked in front will not be visible in your scope as it is not in the same focal plane. It will not block your view. (Just like the front sight tower won't block your view.

Mount your ACOG and site it in. LaRue mount preferrred here.

Now if your ACOG fails or is unable to work, you can pop it off and move the LaRue back to where you need it. With the LaRue throw levers this is a very fast process.

You're done. Chances are you'll never have to use the irons, but they are there if you need them.



On the other hand, as much as you hate change, you might want to consder changing your stance or the way you hold your rifle. The military teaches nose to charging handle for a reason. It may improve your shooting. Being open minded and willing to try new techniques is a hallmark of good shooters everywhere.



Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:53:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
On the other hand, as much as you hate change, you might want to consder changing your stance or the way you hold your rifle. The military teaches nose to charging handle for a reason. It may improve your shooting. Being open minded and willing to try new techniques is a hallmark of good shooters everywhere.


+1
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:54:04 AM EDT
Some good suggestions. I just ordered a LaRue mount for my ACOG a few days ago. It should be here today. I should have asked this question earlier, I could have saved some money on shipping by getting the mount and BUIS at the same time. Thanks for the help.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I'd imagine having to move two optics in a giving situation (removing the ACOG and then moving the LaRue toward the back of the upper) is not ideal as opposed to just removing the ACOG and flipping up the Troy from the back where it should be, but it still might be a viable solution for me.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:58:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:18:49 AM EDT by Apostolos]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
On the other hand, as much as you hate change, you might want to consder changing your stance or the way you hold your rifle. The military teaches nose to charging handle for a reason. It may improve your shooting. Being open minded and willing to try new techniques is a hallmark of good shooters everywhere.




I'm not a nose to charging handle guy. I've got a solid stance, squared up more to the target. I've actually modified my stance somewhat after watching Matt Burkett's AR-15 video. However, that did not significantly change the relationship of my nose with the charging handle.

God Bless,
David
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