Just got my first AR built and the thing won't cycle correctly. I was told it was a gas leak, so I replace the gas block. I am now told it could be the buffer spring is too stiff, but who knows. My question is, for the money, how is an AR better than an AK or SKS? I bought a Russian SKS for $120 and it will flat shoot all day long even if dirty. Never has it jammed. It is accurate too. My buddy has an AK he paid $300 for and same deal. Now I have an AR with name brand parts that won't shoot right, and it cost me $600 to build. Now I get to go through it piece by piece and keep sinking cash into it until I find the problem. So someone please explain to me again what makes an AR worth the money?

Range of engagement.

Accuracy at longer distances.

Versatility.

Effectiveness of the ammunition.

Ar's are not better, they are different. Thats all. Why yours wont run, I dont know. I would have to see it. Most likely you use reloads? Just guessing.
GG

Let me add ergonomics. The AR15 can re-loaded nearly as fast as a semi auto pistol. AK's take far longer to reload. AR15's have far better sights and can take optics. AK's have crappy sights and are difficult to mount good optics on.
PAT

When you say "built"... did you build it...? If so, build an AK or an SKS and let us know how that works out for you...

STP.

PS. Glockfan, amen...!

Sounds like sour grapes...you built your AR wrong, that's all

Typical replies from all you AR-15 SNOBS.  If anyone makes any reference to how well their AK-47 happens to run, just about everyone of you get highly offended.  Why can't you give the guy some constructive advise like he asked for rather than sucker punch him?  I like Gun Guru's reply --Ar's aren't better, they're different. Most of you black rifle types have probably never even shot an AK.  Try it, you might like it!  And, in a fire fight against AR's, I'd happily go up against them with my AK-47.  

Don't panic, it is the best military rifle ever built.  The only countries that don't use it either are too poor or are arming kids for revolution.

Why don't you tell us what it is you have, how you built it, what it's doing, mags you are using, and what ammo.  We will see what we can figure out.

Please keep in mind that most jam issues I've had and have heard about are mag related and easily corrected with either a slight adjustment or wearing in the mag or worse case getting a good USGI mag.  Of my two factory built rifles both had mag jam issues till I wore the mags in.

I have three rifles myself and have built two more and have yet to sink more money into one. Well other than add on toys!

There are alot of guys here who can tell you everything you could ever want to know about an AR and they don't mind sharing.  I've found this site a better source for AR related issues than any local so called it expert. Hell I carried an M16 in the service and these guys taught me more than Uncle Sam.

Anything over 300 meters and you will happily die too my friend. I have both and like both but wouldn't say something like that for I first hand know better.

Most factory built Ar15 type rifles will function very reliably. We would need to know what components you have built the AR with to have a better idea of what the problem may be.

Improperly installed components or mis matched parts can also cause malfunctions.

I have run 8000 rds of ammo thru my issue Colt M4 in the past couple of months in training without one failure.

The AK generally has very loose tollerances which is part of the reason for the well known reliability. Loose tollerances has it's drawbacks though as a standard AK will not shoot as accurately as a standard AR.

I have had both AR's and AK's (in 7.62x39 and .223) and there are differences. The AK is much easier to handle (for me) but the AR is 10x more accurate. I agree with Zardoz.
DogCatcher, please be more specific about your "built" AR and exactly what it is doing. There is a wealth of info here, but you need to ask "humbly", not by bashing the weapons that some of us protect our families with.
Just a suggestion.

And you will die also. I have a Hungarian job. I know its no POS SAR job. I shoot at 400 yrds. Sorry, lack of confidence in the AK got you killed, because you thought you wouldnt get hit at 400. Forgive me for shooting you but I had to prove a point. Yes the AR is more accurate, but dont brush off the AK from your shoulder. Dont go in to terminal balistics because all humans are resilient untill you poke a hole in them. whether it be a .30 cal hole or an icepick.

GG

On average the AK has better reliability than an AR-15/M-16.
On average the AR-15/M-16 has better accuracy than the AK.

The AK has greater [red]clearances[/red] not tolerances than the AR-15/M-16.

As I was driving home tonight, I was thinking of my SAR-1. It is basically a Romanian milspec rifle without the fire control parts. Just think what would happen if FN sold M-16's undrilled, minus fire control parts to a distributor, so they could turn them into semi-auto AR-15's for civi's. A true milspec rifle with aftermarket fire control parts. I bet there would be alot less crappy AR's around if that was the case.
BTW I own 4 AK's and 3 AR's and love them all. The AR is just so much easier to mod up. Each of them get's their time at the range though.

Sorry, did not mean to step on any toes here!

I am not in combat, nor will I probably ever be. But after breaking down my SKS I can see how this really does seem well designed, simplistic and reliable. Plus my SKS shoots very accurately all day long. And I don't believe it is the gun that may make an AR more accurate, it is the round. 223 is generally more accurate than any of the 30's. But then again, my question really was what justifies the price for a weapon that does not seem superior to its commie competitors? (although the AK was a reworked German design that Kalashnikov takes credit for)

As far as my AR goes, it will not eject the shells. And the one time it did, the carrier did not cycle forward all the way either. Yeah, I built it, but I have built lots of things and a trained monkey could put together an AR. All you have to do is match up the proper springs and pins and install them. Assuming your lower and parts are spec then it goes together easily. But, my problems do not seem to be lower related anyhow. Here is what I have (all new):

DPMS forged lower
RRA A4 upper
DPMS Hbar 20"
A2 stock, buffer, spring
new bolt and carrier (FN?)
Model 1 lower parts kit
Model 1 charging handle.
DPMS factory mag, and Orlite mag.

I had my gun smith install and torque the barrel, and check alignment of the tube/key. After it not shooting I took it to another AR guy and he went through the whole gun and checked it over. Thought everthing looked good, decided it had to be the M&A block. So I took off the block and reinstalled the A2 base. Took it out today to try and BANG...JAM. Not sure what else to do because now I am to the point I would have to keep swapping out part(s) until I find the problem(s) which is going to double the cost of this gun. The second AR guy even disassemble my bolt/carrier and even check the alignment of my rings. Everything checked out. Pretty frustrated cause I could have bought 3 AK's with the money I have sunk into this gone already. Bummed cause now I want to part it out and be done with it but I just ordered a scope for it last week. BUMMER

If you actually want to know what is wrong with your AR. Post in the troubleshooting AR forum, with descriptions of problems other than it JAM's.  And get some USGI mags with green followers to try.

The AR-15/M-16 is a weapons system. A system that works with parts that are designed for that system. If you have the parts that fit in the system, then you have a fine rifle.

Just my 2 cents - I read dogcatchers post and did not see where he was bashing the ar or trying to offend anyone. I think he is asking a legitimate question. I personally believe that the AR is a superior weapon system to the AK or the SKS. That said, I feel that the AK and the SKS were both very close to being the most superior infantry weapons of their day. As was addressed, the larger clearances designed into the AK and SKS do help them maintain their reputations for reliability. The sights and the modularity cause the AR to be more versatile and generally more acurate. The ergonomics of the AR ,are also, in my opinion, way superior to the AK. The modularity also enhances the ability to keep the (m16) running in a military role. Parts changeouts are readily accomplished making the AR system cheaper to maintain once the initial cost is layed out. This modularity and ability to change out parts does require much greater adherance to specifications. This cost money. The fact that the weapon is produced in the west with it's greater labor cost also adds to the price. The AR system is also front line and old systems are not available to the public, whereas the AKs and SKS's are available as surplus or manufactured on established equipment. The soviet weapons were designed to be easily and cheaply manufactured, the AR was designed for a specific purpose (though admittedly not as a general issue infantry weapon) and cost was not the overriding consideration. All these explain the higher cost of the AR system and to a degree, why they are worth more. Are they two to three times as effective for 2-3 times the cost? Probably not. I believe the AR is superior, but all are effective weapons.

Coffee

you want to sell it?
i will give ya $200 for it as is, then you can go buy a ak and have all your troubles go away.

AR vs AK......... blah,blah,blah.  

I have both and prefer the AR.  That's my opinion, though and I know plenty of guys that prefer AK's.  

If your going to own an AR then you follow a different set of maintenance protocol.  Sure the AR requires a bit more maintenance, but I think that the benefit's outweigh that small amount of added maintenance.  

My advice is strip the rifle down, and re-verify the way you assembled it.  If you have a properly built AR with good mags, and good ammo, then it should run all day.  

Uh......didn't you just post that you were leaving awhile ago? Get gone already, would ya?

Dogcatcher,

Do you have a friend you can swap assemblies with?  When all fails, that will narrow it down.

Heavy, I met a guy here that is going to check my gun out and get it running for me sounds like. I don't have any friends with an AR so I cannot swap out parts, they are all too cheap. That is why I built mine piece by piece, I am not cheap, just poor!

I am an ar15 newbie and read this forum often for good advice from all the guys (and gals) here.  In the few months I've read through the threads, every time you reply, it is always negative.  I have an AR and an AK and quite a few more guns.....but give the guys a chance to answer before your negativity gets the best of you...I've learned alot here, but I've never read anything helpful from you.....I like my ak also, but if you love yours so much, then stay on the ak forum and don't worry about us 'black rifle 'SNOBS'...as you can see, the guys came through with helpful tips as always....quit wasting bandwidth

Hang in there, you'll get it yet.

This is why I recommend a pre-built from a major manufacturer for your first AR and then go self built on the second or third on.

This gives you a known good AR to compare your work to and gives you assemblies to swap around.

Kit builts can be a PITA.

Once you get it running, clean it well and lube it up and then shoot the shit out of it.

Go at least 1000 rounds before cleaning it.

If something is going to fuck up, it will proabally go in the first 1k.  Infant Mortality of parts and such.

Also, getting it fairly dirty will uncover any marginal function of the rifle that might be masked if you never go more than 200 rounds between cleaning.

When I get a AR, AK or the like, I put 1000 thru it with no clean(unless I am shooting corrosive ammo) till I am satisfied that it is fully functional.

Heavy, thanks for the input. Question, how many rounds can a guy expect to get out of his barrel before it is worn at the throat? I clean my bolt guns about every 20 rounds or so, but I have them tricked out for accuracy. I want this gun for varminting too, but it does not have to be sub MOA like my others as long as it shoots good to say 200-300 yards

Depends on what the bore is made of and what kind of accuracy you can live with.

Chrome lined may give you well in excess of 30,000 rnds if you don't go crazy too often.

Chrome Moly or Stainless should give you between 10,000 and 15,000 if you don't cook it.

Also another point.

Sometimes South African ammo don't like match chambered weapons.  I have only shot this stuff thru Chrome plated military chambered weapons and have had no problems but some people have had extraction issues with match type chambers.

My barrel is standard chromemoly steel. I just replaced a barrel on my 30.06 that lasted 15 years. Too many snowy hunting trips, the barrel finally got too pitted to be accurate. Getting that gun back this week, sent it off to SSS to have it pillar bedded. Hopefully atleast that toy will shoot right!

You should get 15k thru it with your groups staying under 3-4moa max at the end of its life if you don't cook it or kill it with a cleaning rod.

Remember,

You have got to be pickier about you ammo with that match chamber.

check out your extractor.

I've shot AKs and ARs.  But I purchased an AR.  I think they just plain look cooler. As far as shooting goes, my opinion is they are more accurate, better sites, lighter, and just generally better.  If your AR cant take a lil dirt and mud on it, somethings wrong.

infact out at ETHs i dropped my AR in the sand and it still shot atleast 1000 rounds after that.  plus ARs have more options/accessories.

I have all these types, plus the M1 carbine and Garand.  They are all pretty cool, but they are different.  
The 7.62x39 is simply not as effective as good 5.56 ammo, and there isn't anything else really to be said about that.  The 5.56x45 isn't as good as the 30-06 softpoints, either.

The 5.56 penetrates hardened targets better than 7.62x39.  If you want to kill a vest or similar, it's better.
The 7.62x39 is more effective if you need to hurt someone behind multiple walls.  If they are hiding behind cars, whatever, it's more reliable.
30-06 beats them all, hands down.

None of them are really totally reliable; I have had failures with all; usually because of incompatible ammo.  I wish the AR had mags like an AK; hell for tough and nearly unbreakable.

I like to shoot the SKS; they are a lot of fun.
With the new softpoint ammo the 7.62x39 may actually become reliable for hunting or defense.

If the SKS and AK were built by the companies building the ARs (except Hesse) they would shine also.  But I still believe the AR is capable of better accuracy than either of the others.  I haven't heard of anyone shooting the AK or SKS in matches anywhere other than short range carbine stuff.  Over 400 yards?  Either .30 caliber or AR.

Arguing which is better is silly; they have their obvious strengths.  Anyone that lets some silly-boy "mine is better" sports-team mentality affect important decisions is an idiot.

Larry

Ooops, I forgot one point.
If I said "I built my own car from a kit and it don't run" who would think it was the basic platform rather than my skills (or lack thereof)?
To automatically blame the platform because it is executed poorly is not a rational nor mature reaction.  Sorry if that offends.

Every jamomatic I have heard reported on this site was not a factory built rifle from Armalite, Bushmaster or Colt.  It was inevitably pieced together from a parts kit and made in the garage.  If your rifle is a parts kit and wont function well its not the rifles fault.

Check the gas key to see if it is loose or has any play. If so, Tighten the allenhead screws and  
peen the screws.

Right on Bro I'm new around here and I've learned alot. Even more than the Company level Armorers course taught me, well some stuff anyway. I was company level Armorer for an infantry unit in the 82nd and I've seen piles of broken Colt M4's, 203's, FN 249's, 240's anyway not loosing sight of the original question the AR IS NOT BETTER but neither is the AK, SKS, M1A or a host of other battle rifles, save mabye the HK G36 but I haven't shot it but the German soilders I talked to said they where very proud of it. Reasons I like it:

-I know a little about it.

-U can change it from a 9mm 40S&W 10mm 45ACP 50AE 5.56/.223 7.62x39 ect. with very little work

-looking at catalogs of AR stuff gives me something to do when taking a shit.

-when you have a problem with it you can go to AR15.com and people will help you for free

-on and on and on

Glockdog

Airborne!

Kickass point man

In comparing the AK to the AR the issue I have is not the rifle for the AK is one fine ass rifle, it is the round.  A 7.62X39 drops 60" over 300 meters which is the height of a man.

I have both a Saiga and SKS and like both very much but given a choice of what to take in combat it will be an AR varient for acuracy, rate of fire, and amount of ammo you can carry.

Taking time out to adjust your sight can be a hinderence when comfronted with a quick shot senario.  Plus, I just don't like lobbing them in that much for it's way too much room for error.    

I've never fired a smaller cartrige AK and it is on my want list along with a dozen others. LOL

Very true.
The problem with the AK is the 7.62x39 round.
It has a shitty balistic coefficent, too short for
I'ts diameter.
If you can consistantly hit standard IPSC targets
with an AK at 400yds with iron sights, you are
one hell of a rifleman.

However I call  [bs]

hey dog if its not cycling at all firing but nothing happens you could have something blocking the gas tube or port or you could have installed the gas tube upside down,if the carrier comes back half way and does not throw the empty then I would say carrier key loose and check the bolt gas rings make sure they are staggered .

AK SKS, 7.62x39 will not shoot at all like a .223, longer distance will be greatfully chosen over ak etc.   Plus hey,,,  American MADE!!!!

The AR is better because:

Its more accurate
It can be free floated
It has better triggers available
It has a better stock trigger
It is lighter
It it made with higher quality parts (fit finish)
It is more ergonomic
It is more versatile
It mounts optics at the correct height
It has better iron sights
It reloads a fresh mag faster
It has lighter magazines
It can be silenced more effectively
It has swapable uppers and now swapable stocks (MSS)

The AK is beeter because:

It can withstand a poor maintainance regimine
It costs less
It has tougher magazines

The AK is better for the uneducated, the poor and the lazy.  The AR is better for everyone else.  And yes I have owned both.

love them both, id have to say i like my AR better because i can shoot better with it. the AK is awesome because a moron like me cant make it fail. all and all if you sort out the kinks in yer AR i believe you will see the light and favor it over your AK and SKS. IF you do fix it and still like the ak or sks better, thats great too, that what you perfer, dont let others views get you pissed, but at the same time its wise not to preach to those people that their weapon system sucks...to each his own

And that's why this whole issue is silly; none of these systems "suck" at all.  They just have different strengths and purposes.
The AR would be the WRONG weapon for some purposes, the AK or SKS would be better.
The Johnson, the Chauchat, the SA-80, the French everything; these suck.  The three we are discussing, along with the FAL and G3, simply excel in their design purpose.

Anyone that doesn't understand the WWII German and Soviet "tank-rider" doctrine, the Finn "Talvisota" sub-gunners, the battle of Stalingrad or Berlin simply will never understand the point of the AK.  Someone with little to no knowledge of trench battles or the Russian Civil War of 1916-1917 will never understand the SKS.

Ohio:  (Sound of standing ovation!)  One of the most thoughtful, insightful, intellegent statements in this thread.  Salute!