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Posted: 9/18/2004 2:31:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 2:32:54 PM EDT by Marco]
I own an AK and love it but recently have fallen for the EBR's. With so much conflicting opinions on what to expect price and availability wise now with the ban done, Im having a hard time deciding which lady to go with. I believe I have narrowed my search to either a Bushmaster or RockRiver.
I like the fact that RR has 2 stage triggers and a lifetime limited warranty. From all Ive read, I understand they make a fine weapon. Bushmaster seems to be an undeniable favorite for many, and they have a great selection. I am interested in a PreBan Bushy CAR 15 XM that has a 2 pos stock, and perm flash suppressor at 900.00. Will there be any collectable "value" in the approx
150-200 more I pay, than to get a new one? The main qualities that I want are an adjustable stock, shorter barrel, and lighter weight. Can anyone help me narrow down the field? Id like to keep it in the 750-950 range but more if the extra is well worth. Oh, btw, I love to modulate but will buy a complete for my first. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 2:50:10 PM EDT
Keep shoping around and the two you mentioned are fine. You should see some good deals coming out shortly after the dust settles.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 2:55:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 2:56:08 PM EDT by underdog75]
As a paying ARFCOM member im required to respond to you questions with GET BOTH!

Now thats out of the way both RRA and Bushy make a fine rifle, Im not a fan of the twostage triggers in "fightin carbine's" but to each his own,.
RRA's are a bit cheaper than Bushmaster's, Your Bushmaster's are all going to be chromelined and 4150 steel in the barrels, which is worth the extra cash IMHO.
Best advise I can give is to look around this site, ask alot of questions. Decide what you want then buy. We'll be here when your ready....................Udog
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 2:57:17 PM EDT
Welcome, Marco enjoy the site.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 2:57:32 PM EDT
Welcome, And between the two I would buy the RRA.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:25:03 PM EDT
Both are great rifles, but B-master has the best variety by far in terms of barrel types lenghts fluting etc. and they will mix and match whatever barrel to upper combo you want, mill off the front sight, whatever. I even sent them another manufacturers upper and they put a barrel on it for just the barrel cost, there m-4 contour barrels are quite nice and the post-ban model is a 14.5 inch with welded muzzle brake giving it an OVERALL 16" length including muzzle device, I am pretty sure you can't do that with a threaded muzzle rifle as the lenght is measured with muzzle device removed. Someone correct me if I am wrong.So my vote goes to the Bushmaster M-4 and put a set of First Samco M-44 handgaurds on it, my favorite for the money.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 5:17:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:49:11 PM EDT
As a paying ARFCOM member im required to respond to you questions with GET BOTH!hats
"there m-4 contour barrels are quite nice and the post-ban model is a 14.5 inch with welded muzzle brake giving it an OVERALL 16" length including muzzle device, I am pretty sure you can't do that with a threaded muzzle rifle as the lenght is measured with muzzle device removed"

Now you see, its just theses tastey bits of fact that make deciding sooo tough. There are already Bushy LE models like this showing up


and thats one Id take tonighthatwell maybe 3. Some of those DPMS are sweet.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:56:37 PM EDT
both make holes
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:39:14 PM EDT
Build one yourself. Get a kit from model 1 and a lower then put it together. You can get a Stag Arms or Mega Lower for a lot less than a Bushy.

AR's are very easy to put together, and you can save a bit on building your own.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:21:27 AM EDT
welcome Marco.

I 'd get the Bushmaster. They are a good company, appreciate their customers, and have all the options you could ever want. I have one, and have been back to BM more than a dozen times for accessories, parts, etc. and every time it has been 100%

I would also say that I have read and heard from scores of RR fans, who are every bit as proud of their rifles and support of the company.

hard to go wrong with that decision.............


Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:10:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 7:14:02 AM EDT by FMD]
Welcome aboard, Marco!

Since I'm not a team member [yet] I don't have to respond with "get both", and I won't (for the time being).

I'm also (fairly) new here, but lurked for ages (several years) soaking up info.

I finally decided that if I was going to spend money, I'd build eactly what I wanted. Because of the modular design, if you can change the plugs on your car, you prolly have the mechanical aptitude to assemble an AR.

Some suggestions:

Take your time, reasearch here, take your time, and do more research here. Then build yourself an AR. If you're really hot to buy a "complete" AR, both RRA and Bushy are excellent companies to buy from. Realize that you'll end up spending half-again as much as the rifle in add-ons sooner or later.

Buy what you want, but ask questions here to determine what you want first. I thought I knew, and then was sent in other directions by the good folks here (based on my criteria, they steered me in the right directions).

Now to your specifics questions:

There is no "collector value" in a pre-ban rifle outside of the few states that still have a AW ban. You're in Kansas (ie no state AWB), so the "pre-ban" status now just means "used" since the Federal law sunset last week. Buy new.

If you want a colapsible stock, look for a 6 position M4 stock, or a Magpul 93A. With either, the multiple adjustments will come in super-handy. The Magpul stock is expensive, but worth every penny IMO. Once set up, it can also be utilized as a "2 position" stock (it can be set with a preset so that you have two, almost instant positions; full collapsed, and open to your LOP preference).

Opinions are split on the permanent flash hider. In true Arfcom tratition, I ended up buying both (two different uppers) . It is the way to go if you can't or don't want to SBR your rifle. You won't notice a weight difference between them, if the barrel profiles are the same.

Two stage triggers are very nice for National Match and varminter guns. At the same time, a little work (search for "The 15 minute trigger job" here at Arfcom) and you will have a single-stage that is very precise. More of my opinion; don't bother with the springs, just use the mild abrasive to smooth the bearing surfaces.

If you want to mount an optic, go for a flat top upper.

I hope that helps!


Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:27:12 PM EDT
I am beginning to understand the value of "personalizing" my purchase(s). From what I am learning, the "feel" is in the lower and the general look and "functionality" is in the upper. I want a match barrel but want the comfort / agreement with the mechanisms of the lower. Does this make sense? I know the upper and barrell will do its thing based on its construction-the execution though is in the lower and is the most significant factor in determining the pleasure and efficiency factor with a complete. Whoop Im soundng educated?his Ok then. Selecting my lower will be paramount but easier than deciding the specs for the upper. Here barrel twist, weight, muzzle status, barrel length are more difficult for me to put together. How should I focus my efforts
still with the desire for a shorter barrel and keeping the overall weight controled? Thanks guys. Im having a blast mixing all the ideas and possabilitieshug.gif
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:22:50 PM EDT
Are you planning on shooting more than 200 yds?

Are you looking for a flat top or A2 carryhandle?

You mention short barrel. Unless you want SBR and all that that implies (NFA, tax stamp, FBI check, etc...) you can go as short as 16 inch barrel, or 14.5 inch with elded/pinned flash suppressor.

these would be some starting points/questions to help uyou move in the right direction.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:58:48 PM EDT
11.5 barrell with supressor is what Im looking for. The weight and balance is my primary concern.
I know how to shoot whatever the barrel length may be. For me its in the foundation of what I can lay down in a pair of irons quickly and comfortablyhin The A3 carryhandle is a definite plus but not necessity. But Id still value it greatly
for sight options. Point to rest-iron sighting with optic support as needed.hug.gif
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 7:24:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 7:31:18 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Here is one option from a 100% trustworth company, here at AR15.com....

A4 CAR $375.00 RRA Complete Uppers (here is where this goes over my head, as I don't know if an M4 can be cut down to 11.5", since they are turned down so thin, ask the ADCO guys in their Industry Forum.
Carry Handle $110.00 RRA parts
Cut Down Barrel and thread $80.00 ADCO shop services (I'm pretty sure this is the right shop service and price for what you are looking for)

The two best arguments for this would be they are trusted and respected, and their turnaround is usually about 4-5 days to your door.

Your best be would be to tell them exactly what you want, and how they would do it, and how much.

Another good option might be some sort of 4-rail fore end (especially if you use a flip up front sight). I used a YHM because they are inexpensive ($125). They are 2 piece, and slip on like handguards. This might be your best bet, as you would have a welded on suppressor, and couldn't swap a free float without removing that first. YHM handguard page
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 6:27:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 6:31:09 PM EDT by Marco]
Great site! Ill give the ban a little time to settle down just to see how prices for completes settle out. Not seeing anything to my like, its great to know that there are co's like this to accommodatehis

Ahhh, this is my threadhttp://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=201291
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