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Posted: 8/1/2009 2:46:31 PM EST
I was carrying my Colt Match Target in a soft gun case and some idiot (me) left the end unzipped. The rifle slid out and fell to the wood floor in my room. The gun landed on its stock and fell to the side. The great majority of the impact was absorbed by the stock. Unfortunately now the charging handle can only be pulled out about an inch. The ejection port cover is stuck in the closed position. I took off the upper and nothing looked out of place to my very untrained eyes. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 2:48:55 PM EST
When you pull on the charging handle does the bolt carrier group move at all??
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 2:51:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 2:51:44 PM EST by smithc6]
when you took the upper off were you able to get the charging handle and BCG to come out no problem?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 2:52:47 PM EST
Could the port cover be bent back into the receiver? Seems like a VERY long shot but I guess it could happen.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 2:53:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 2:55:36 PM EST by fxntime]
You probably bent your stock and the bolt carrier no longer lines up to go into it.

Take the lower and upper apart using the takedown pins, if should come apart so you can see what has happened inside.

The cover isn't moving because the carrier isn't going back far enough to contact it, a small screwdriver carefully inserted between it and the reciever will release it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 2:57:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
You probably bent your stock and the bolt carrier no longer lines up to go into it.

Take the lower and upper apart using the takedown pins, if should come apart so you can see what has happened inside.

The cover isn't moving because the carrier isn't going back far enough to contact it, a small screwdriver carefully inserted between it and the reciever will release it.


is it really possible to bend a buffer tube just from a drop?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:02:25 PM EST
He said in his post that he took the upper off of the lower.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:04:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
You probably bent your stock and the bolt carrier no longer lines up to go into it.

Take the lower and upper apart using the takedown pins, if should come apart so you can see what has happened inside.

The cover isn't moving because the carrier isn't going back far enough to contact it, a small screwdriver carefully inserted between it and the reciever will release it.


is it really possible to bend a buffer tube just from a drop?


Yes, depending on the height. If the lower and upper are seperated and it's still stuck then you bent the charging handle somehow.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:08:44 PM EST
Very strange
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:10:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
You probably bent your stock and the bolt carrier no longer lines up to go into it.

Take the lower and upper apart using the takedown pins, if should come apart so you can see what has happened inside.

The cover isn't moving because the carrier isn't going back far enough to contact it, a small screwdriver carefully inserted between it and the reciever will release it.


is it really possible to bend a buffer tube just from a drop?


Yes, depending on the height. If the lower and upper are seperated and it's still stuck then you bent the charging handle somehow.


I would assume that would be something like 15-20 ft for that to happen...how far was the drop OP?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 3:56:34 PM EST
Check the forward assist.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:02:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
You probably bent your stock and the bolt carrier no longer lines up to go into it.

Take the lower and upper apart using the takedown pins, if should come apart so you can see what has happened inside.

The cover isn't moving because the carrier isn't going back far enough to contact it, a small screwdriver carefully inserted between it and the reciever will release it.


is it really possible to bend a buffer tube just from a drop?


If its a Colt.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:07:30 PM EST
you are supposed to throw them down the driveway
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:12:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By higgite:
Check the forward assist.


Yup, I bet it is stuck in. Forward assist holds the bolt in place, bolt cant move to knock the port door open.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:17:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By cwebbcam:
Originally Posted By higgite:
Check the forward assist.


Yup, I bet it is stuck in. Forward assist holds the bolt in place, bolt cant move to knock the port door open.


Might have something there

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 4:26:40 PM EST
Considering that banging the stock is one of the procedures for clearing a jam I find it hard to believe that he bent the buffer tube with a drop like that.

Stuck forward assist sounds very plausible though.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:00:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:04:09 PM EST
Is the inside of that upper lubed at all? Try dripping some CLP down along the body of the bolt carrier and let it sit for a while before pulling on the charging handle again.

If that doesn't loosen it up, (and if it were my rifle), I'd be tempted to GENTLY do some prying on the front of the carrier... It is NOT normal for this to happen, not normal at all.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:15:38 PM EST
just to verify, is there a chambered round in there? or dummy round? how knew is the rifle?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:20:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 5:21:06 PM EST by lunker]
There is a dummy round in the chamber. I was instructed by the range officer at my pistol range (a sergeant in Army) to let the hammer down on a spent round when done shooting.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:21:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
just to verify, is there a chambered round in there? or dummy round? how knew is the rifle?

we have a winner
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:23:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 5:28:25 PM EST by fulautotank]
Edit: dummy round
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:24:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 5:27:26 PM EST by fxntime]
Originally Posted By acman145acp:

Originally Posted By bob332:
just to verify, is there a chambered round in there? or dummy round? how knew is the rifle?

we have a winner


Ahhh, reassemble, hold charging handle back and slam the stock against the floor several times. The case is stuck in the chamber.

And..........STOP DOING THAT!!!! [putting a "empty" in the chamber] The guy is 100% wrong, it's dangerous, [think WHOOPS that was a live one] and dropping the hammer on a empty chamber is perfectly OK to do without any damage occuring to the rifle.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:25:36 PM EST
that could be the problem right there. I would put a cleaning rod down the barrel and give it a good tap. THe case may be stuck in the chamber keeping it from extracting/opening. If you pull on the charging handle or try to pry the bolt carrier you could rip the rim off.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:26:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By acman145acp:

Originally Posted By bob332:
just to verify, is there a chambered round in there? or dummy round? how knew is the rifle?

we have a winner


Ahhh, reassemble, hold charging handle back and slam the stock against the floor several times. The case is stuck in the chamber.

And..........STOP DOING THAT!!!! The guy is 100% wrong, it's dangerous, [think WHOOPS that was a live one] and dropping the hammer on a empty chamber is perfectly OK to do without any danage occuring to the rifle.



THIS
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:35:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By lunker:
There is a dummy round in the chamber. I was instructed by the range officer at my pistol range (a sergeant in Army) to let the hammer down on a spent round when done shooting.


Take the rifle back to the range and use the range officer's pointy little head to pry the dummy round out.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:35:24 PM EST
The spent case came out. Thanks for all the advice. If anyone finds themselves in Sandy Hook New Jersey, look me up and I'll buy you a beer.
I am a dyed-in-the-wool handgun guy. I've always been told never to dry-fire any of them except my Glocks (the 22 rimfires will peen the chamber, the old revolvers with the firing pin in the hammer don't like dry-firing either). Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:39:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By lunker:
There is a dummy round in the chamber. I was instructed by the range officer at my pistol range (a sergeant in Army) to let the hammer down on a spent round when done shooting.
I'm not giving you a hard time about this, because you probably just didn't know any better. But what this knucklehead told you is BS. If you really feel some overwhelming desire to let the hammer down after shooting, just pull the trigger on an empty chamber, or toss a snap cap in there. But don't use a spent casing, because this will likely happen pretty often.

Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:39:11 PM EST
[ Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?


yes
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:40:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By lunker:
... Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?

Yes. Dry fire all day long until the cows come home. Actually it's a great way to work on trigger technique.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:44:15 PM EST
Thanks for not getting on me too bad. I will try to show the same restraint one day when I have accumulated a fair knowledge of this weapon.
I would have went with the snap caps but they were all out at the range. I wonder if they teach you the spent round thing in the military, or did at one time (the guy who told me that is retired). I looked all through the manual that came with the Colt and nowhere did it mention dry-firing unfortunately. I went with (what I thought was) the conservative approach. As a followup, I guess it doesn't hurt anything to leave the hammer cocked with the selctor on Safety? I was thinking about wearing out springs under tension.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:46:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By kcr121:

Originally Posted By lunker:
... Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?

Yes. Dry fire all day long until the cows come home. Actually it's a great way to work on trigger technique.


Never "dry fire" with the upper removed. It may be tempting to watch how it works but you could screw stuff up.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 5:50:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By cwebbcam:
Originally Posted By kcr121:

Originally Posted By lunker:
... Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?

Yes. Dry fire all day long until the cows come home. Actually it's a great way to work on trigger technique.


Never "dry fire" with the upper removed. It may be tempting to watch how it works but you could screw stuff up.


The rifle's receiver is a very hard aluminum, but the hammer is a much, much harder heat treated steel - eventually your receiver will lose the contest.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:35:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2009 6:38:02 PM EST by kcr121]

Originally Posted By lunker:
Thanks for not getting on me too bad. I will try to show the same restraint one day when I have accumulated a fair knowledge of this weapon.
I would have went with the snap caps but they were all out at the range. I wonder if they teach you the spent round thing in the military, or did at one time (the guy who told me that is retired). I looked all through the manual that came with the Colt and nowhere did it mention dry-firing unfortunately. I went with (what I thought was) the conservative approach. As a followup, I guess it doesn't hurt anything to leave the hammer cocked with the selctor on Safety? I was thinking about wearing out springs under tension.

Maybe someone teaches the spent round thing somewhere in the military, but I've never heard of it.

Also, no, it doesn't hurt anything at all to leave the hammer cocked so you can flip the selector to Safe. ARs are much tougher than many give them credit for. But like one of the posters above me mentioned, don't dry fire the lower with the upper receiver removed. You don't have to worry about the receiver, but if you dry fire the lower separated from the upper you can crack the bolt catch.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:39:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By higgite:
Originally Posted By lunker:
There is a dummy round in the chamber. I was instructed by the range officer at my pistol range (a sergeant in Army) to let the hammer down on a spent round when done shooting.


Take the rifle back to the range and use the range officer's pointy little head to pry the dummy round out.


LOL this!
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:08:21 PM EST
you can buy dummy rounds - i will use them and have my wife load mags so i don't know where the dud is and if something goes "in the heat of the moment" it is no big deal since i have already had a "non firing round and was able to calmly deal w/ it". now if something bad ever happend that is one thing i feel i am able to stay a little calmer than if i had experineced a dud for the unthinkable need to be done. i know the chances of that happening are small, but look at how many of us have firearms and thankfully never have to use them to save our loved one or ourselves.

i had a new rifle do this to me - it was shot at the factory but that was it, so i am guessing maybe 3-5rnds if that? everything was still very sharp edges on the lugs so when i went to pull the ch back it felt locked. a quick holding of the ch back w/ a bit of tension and a light slam on the buttstock on the ground pulled it out. i was using the magpul dummies fwiw and after i worked the action for maybe 50x or so by hand seems like everything is g2g even w/ hand cycling a dummy.

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 4:03:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By kcr121:

Originally Posted By lunker:
Thanks for not getting on me too bad. I will try to show the same restraint one day when I have accumulated a fair knowledge of this weapon.
I would have went with the snap caps but they were all out at the range. I wonder if they teach you the spent round thing in the military, or did at one time (the guy who told me that is retired). I looked all through the manual that came with the Colt and nowhere did it mention dry-firing unfortunately. I went with (what I thought was) the conservative approach. As a followup, I guess it doesn't hurt anything to leave the hammer cocked with the selctor on Safety? I was thinking about wearing out springs under tension.

Maybe someone teaches the spent round thing somewhere in the military, but I've never heard of it.

Also, no, it doesn't hurt anything at all to leave the hammer cocked so you can flip the selector to Safe. ARs are much tougher than many give them credit for. But like one of the posters above me mentioned, don't dry fire the lower with the upper receiver removed. You don't have to worry about the receiver, but if you dry fire the lower separated from the upper you can crack the bolt catch.


I've had some doozies for qualification instructors in my day, people who would explain how the rifle worked completely wrong (because that's how they were trained), but I've never had anyone tell me there needs to be a case of any sort in the chamber of an M16 when you drop the hammer. Dry fire the living crap out of an AR, there's no problem with that at all. Nor is there a problem with leaving the hammer cocked for extended periods of time.

If you MUST have a round in the chamber for some reason, whether it's function testing, FTF drills or whatever, use PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED DUMMY ROUNDS. I made up a bunch of them to use up some "not terribly consistent" Winchester bullets, and I did it right-fully sized cases without primers, bullets seated precisely (for length anyway), and crimped in like there's no tomorrow to keep the bullets in the cases. Popping in some fired empty is like playing roulette; maybe the little ball will land on your number and you win, but more likely you'll pop in someone else's empty and it'll cause problems.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:30:05 AM EST
No one else has said it, so I will ... it looks like the BCG is rusty and dry as all hell.

Lube that sucker!!!

.
.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:35:00 AM EST
I know it looks like that in the pics, but it really isn't. For some reason the flash made the metal look like rust. There isn't a speck of rust on the gun. And it is lubed. Thanks for the head's up" though.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:07:33 AM EST
If your afraid to dry fire it, you can push the rear take down pin out and open the upper from the lower and gently let your hammer down with your thumb.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:26:35 AM EST
The only harm from dropping the hammer can occur of the upper is not attached to the lower. In this case, the hammer can damage the bolt catch or rear of the mag well.

Springs wear out from cycling, not being held in tension. Just like leaving your mags loaded won't hurt the springs, leaving the hammer cocked won't hurt the springs.

And dry firing is perfectly OK with the vast majority of firearms, and particularly all center-fire firearms. Not so good on rimfires, and not so good on some older revolvers.

Perfectly OK on ARs, 1911s, and just about every modern centerfire gun (handgun and long gun)
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:22:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By cwebbcam:
Originally Posted By kcr121:

Originally Posted By lunker:
... Just to confirm, it is OK to dry fire my AR?

Yes. Dry fire all day long until the cows come home. Actually it's a great way to work on trigger technique.


Never "dry fire" with the upper removed. It may be tempting to watch how it works but you could screw stuff up.

"Screw stuff up" = broken hammer

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:24:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By FredMan:
The only harm from dropping the hammer can occur of the upper is not attached to the lower. In this case, the hammer can damage the bolt catch or rear of the mag well.

Springs wear out from cycling, not being held in tension. Just like leaving your mags loaded won't hurt the springs, leaving the hammer cocked won't hurt the springs.

And dry firing is perfectly OK with the vast majority of firearms, and particularly all center-fire firearms. Not so good on rimfires, and not so good on some older revolvers.

Perfectly OK on ARs, 1911s, and just about every modern centerfire gun (handgun and long gun)


Not good for shotguns. They fuck up the firing pin springs. Always use snap caps on your shotguns.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:06:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 11:07:36 AM EST by chris_arnet]
If you still want to put dummy rounds in to drop your hammer on, its not hard to make your own. Pull the bullet out, dump the powder and punch the primer. Then replace the primer with a circular piece of eraser and re-seat the bullet. Then make sure to draw all over it so you have no chance of putting a live round in the chamber instead of your dummy. But dry-firing your AR is 100% A-OK.

Also, it's fine to leave your weapon cocked. Just like its fine to leave mags loaded. Repeatedly compressing and decompressing the springs is what affect mags (an an AR), not leaving them compressed.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:53:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 11:54:43 AM EST by js308]
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By acman145acp:

Originally Posted By bob332:
just to verify, is there a chambered round in there? or dummy round? how knew is the rifle?

we have a winner


Ahhh, reassemble, hold charging handle back and slam the stock against the floor several times. The case is stuck in the chamber.

And..........STOP DOING THAT!!!! [putting a "empty" in the chamber] The guy is 100% wrong, it's dangerous, [think WHOOPS that was a live one] and dropping the hammer on a empty chamber is perfectly OK to do without any damage occuring to the rifle.





Based on what you posted before, wouldn't slamming the stock against the floor bend the buffer tube? You said it could have bent by it falling out of his gun case, wouldn't slamming it against the floor be worse? Just trying to find out if it's really that possible to bend the buffer tube that easily, I would think you would have to drop it from a 5 story building onto pavement for this to happen.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:55:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 11:56:21 AM EST by MikefromTX]
The only thing I'd say about leaving the hammer cocked is that you're never going to accidentally drop the hammer on a gun that isn't cocked. We were taught in the Corps to NEVER leave a weapon cocked when coming off duty. Even guns with disconnector or trigger safeties or hammer blocks. The exception would be in an active combat zone where you'd probably be in Condition 1 - cocked and locked - because you never know when you might wake up to gunfire.

As several others have already said, there is no harm at all in dropping the hammer of an AR on an empty chamber. When you reach the last round and the bolt locks open, just drop the magazine, hit the bolt release, point the weapon safely downrange and pull the trigger.

.
.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 12:31:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By js308:


Based on what you posted before, wouldn't slamming the stock against the floor bend the buffer tube? You said it could have bent by it falling out of his gun case, wouldn't slamming it against the floor be worse? Just trying to find out if it's really that possible to bend the buffer tube that easily, I would think you would have to drop it from a 5 story building onto pavement for this to happen.


Maybe if you swung it like a baseball bat against a tree. But smacking the butt on a table or the ground while simulataniously pulling the charging handle absoluetly won't hurt it and is a common method to unlocking a stuck bolt.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:06:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Josh3239:
Originally Posted By js308:


Based on what you posted before, wouldn't slamming the stock against the floor bend the buffer tube? You said it could have bent by it falling out of his gun case, wouldn't slamming it against the floor be worse? Just trying to find out if it's really that possible to bend the buffer tube that easily, I would think you would have to drop it from a 5 story building onto pavement for this to happen.


Maybe if you swung it like a baseball bat against a tree. But smacking the butt on a table or the ground while simulataniously pulling the charging handle absoluetly won't hurt it and is a common method to unlocking a stuck bolt.


Yeah that is what im trying to get at, but the other member stated that the rifle falling out of the guys gun case onto the floor could have bent the buffer tube. Which sounds absolutely impossible in my opinion.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:03:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By js308:
Originally Posted By Josh3239:
Originally Posted By js308:


Based on what you posted before, wouldn't slamming the stock against the floor bend the buffer tube? You said it could have bent by it falling out of his gun case, wouldn't slamming it against the floor be worse? Just trying to find out if it's really that possible to bend the buffer tube that easily, I would think you would have to drop it from a 5 story building onto pavement for this to happen.


Maybe if you swung it like a baseball bat against a tree. But smacking the butt on a table or the ground while simulataniously pulling the charging handle absoluetly won't hurt it and is a common method to unlocking a stuck bolt.


Yeah that is what im trying to get at, but the other member stated that the rifle falling out of the guys gun case onto the floor could have bent the buffer tube. Which sounds absolutely impossible in my opinion.



Depends on the ANGLE of the strike. Straight back, no worries, at an angle and on a hard surface and high enough, yeah, it could happen. There are only a few things that will prevent the bolt carrier coming back if already unlocked and a bent buffer tube is one of them tho I'd figure a carbine would have a greater issue with this then a rifle stocked AR.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:05:56 PM EST
It sounds like you are under the impression that you should unload and dry fire the AR for transportation or storage. There is no reason to do that. When you are done firing, let the bolt go home on the empty chamber and put the rifle on safe. You aren't hurting anything, and you have already verified an empty chamber. Reverify every time you pick it back up, and nothing can go wrong. You aren't going to damage or wear the hammer spring by leaving it cocked.
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