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Posted: 1/29/2016 1:22:44 PM EDT
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Hey AR15.com members! Great site you got here with a plethora of information.
I'm looking to pick up my first AR and need some advice. Just looking to do some plinking with it and familiarize myself with the platform. Here are a few of the options I'm currently looking at, with a max budget of around $800 (I'll allow quite a bit more for add-ons and ammo) S&W M&P15 ($646) http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/36913 S&W M&P15 Sport II ($625) http://tooeleshootingsupply.com/shop/smith-wesson-mp15-sport-ii-ar-15-rifle-5-56-nato-223-rem-with-16-barrel-adjustable-sights-collapsible-stock-smith-wesson-10202/ RRA CAR A4 ($750) https://www.kygunco.com/rock-river-car-a4-6-position-stock-223-556mm-nato-16-bbl-4477 Anderson AR15 ($599) http://www.wisearms.com/products/copy-of-anderson-ar-15-with-15-inch-free-float-keymod-and-utg-red-dot-1-9-wylde-barrel What is the biggest difference between the M&Ps? The price on the 811000 seems really cheap! I like the idea of a two stage trigger on the RRA and the chrome moly barrel. The Anderson has some upgraded furniture and a 1/8 twist, which is also more attractive for a being a bit more universal for shooting different loads. Thanks for your input! |
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Well, I can tell you that you have a shit load more options than I did when I bought my first one back in 05 or 06. I had the choice between RRA and Bushmaster. That was it unless you could find a Colt in stock somewhere. I ended up with the RRA and that rifle has seen numerous configurations and thousands of rounds in the last 10 years. I just use mine for plinking and range trips and to that end it has been an excellent rifle and I've never had a single issue. Mind you, it has never been run hard so I have no idea how it would react in such an environment, but my gut says it would be fine.
IMHO, for your purposes anything RRA or S&W will serve you well. If you plan on taking classes with it, or if it is going to see high volume shooting or hard use, I might save up a little more and grab something from BCM or Daniel Defense. |
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I would suggest you also take a look at Spikes and BravoCompany (BCM). For the money they are hard to beat the quality of product especially for your first AR.
Have you considered building as well in my opinion you can build exactly what you want (yeah it might cost more initially) but in the long run it will save you money over buying a put together rifle and upgrading it and modifying this and that. The forum has great tools and tacked up threads that can guide you through the process and it is actually unbelievably simple. |
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I would suggest you also take a look at Spikes and BravoCompany (BCM). For the money they are hard to beat the quality of product especially for your first AR. Have you considered building as well in my opinion you can build exactly what you want (yeah it might cost more initially) but in the long run it will save you money over buying a put together rifle and upgrading it and modifying this and that. The forum has great tools and tacked up threads that can guide you through the process and it is actually unbelievably simple. ^^This! Even if you don't feel comfortable building your own you could at least buy a complete lower and a complete upper (from different companies, even!) and slap them together to get a better feel for what you want! I was about to recommend a Spikes Mid-length for a little bit more money. You can pick up a standard BCM mid-length upper receiver group (BCG and charging handle included) for a little over $500, add $30 for basic handguards and another $275 for a decent complete lower (as low as $189 in some places) and you're in business with a quality piece! ATW! -Fox |
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I'm far from an AR guru but I went with the Core 15 Scout. The only thing I've found on the negative side is that the Core does not like Tula. Other than that I haven't had an issue with it. Along those lines you may be interested in the following:
https://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/?cat=52&dir=asc&order=price Good luck, Al |
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Quoted: I'm far from an AR guru but I went with the Core 15 Scout. The only thing I've found on the negative side is that the Core does not like Tula. Other than that I haven't had an issue with it.Along those lines you may be interested in the following: https://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/?cat=52&dir=asc&order=price Good luck, Al |
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You could pick just about any brand you find in a box store or honest gun store and it will be just fine. There is very little difference in ARs at the same price points.
Beyond that you just get a lot of what brand people personally own garbage. Any of the ones you posted are just fine. |
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Quoted: Core posted some hokey groups a while back. I havent heard great things about Core either. With prices so low, you would be better off with a different brand than Core for the money. Quoted: Quoted: I'm far from an AR guru but I went with the Core 15 Scout. The only thing I've found on the negative side is that the Core does not like Tula. Other than that I haven't had an issue with it.Along those lines you may be interested in the following: https://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/?cat=52&dir=asc&order=price Good luck, Al Core posted some hokey groups a while back. I havent heard great things about Core either. With prices so low, you would be better off with a different brand than Core for the money. |
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PSA Blem Premium Kit
This may be a good option for you. Stole it from the deals thread. |
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Aero Precision OEM
This would be a good choice if you are wanting a specific hand guard. |
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Just made my entry as well with a Sport II. Great buy right out of the box, having shot numerous ARs before. It had everything I needed without anything I didn't, and I was hitting nice groups from 100 yards my first day out with just the MBUS. The Forward Assist and dust cover weren't really selling points for me as upgraded over the Sport, but the price was right, the Sport was (and really is) relatively unavailable anymore. COmpared to the Ruger AR-556, which is also where I was looking for reasons discussed at the bottom, the M&P had a better reputation overall. The Ruger forum had detailed enough QC issues that I simply ruled it out.
Part of the reason I bought it is because I also knew I wanted to build. but I knew that would be in pieces over time and that I would inevitably want things on it that the M&P didn't have. So even though I have the M&P, I've also been steadily building an Aero Precision lower. Since it's no rush, I pick up odds and ends I want while I save for a nice upper. Not sure where I want to go with that yet, so I've just been reading, researching and shooting the M&P so in a few months when I have the $, I'll be able to buy what I want at a price I'm happy with. Already having the M&P, it's easy to wait and learn what I like. Right now, I'm leaning towards saving for a BCM 14.5 mid-length, has some features I like and it'll be different than the off the rack carbine I already have. Right now, I'm about $200 in but I have a mostly completed lower of relatively high end parts of exactly what I want, and I still have my M&P to keep learning with. At this point, for me, I just didn't need a free-float rail on a plinking gun, so I wanted a nice simple carbine as an entry point. To be continued.... |
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As for the add-ons of something like an Anderson, if you're unsure of the furniture it doesn't make that much of a value-added proposition. I already knew I liked the MOE+ grip, most rack rifles upgraded come with the MOE, so I'm still spending $20 to get what I want anyway. Ditto on the optic, which if you anticipate wanting something else, it'll just be another addition in your parts bin when you could have had the rifle you really wanted and bought the optic you wanted. May cost a few $ more, but I think you'll be happier in the long run.
One thing that pushed me over on the M&P was that for my first AR, I wanted a reputable company-backed warranty and S&W is solid on that. Really, in terms of the rifles themselves, there's not too much difference in quality as I perceive it among the choices you have, just prices and a few details here and there, but in that mid-tier budget most everything from a reputable company seems G2G. I have no experience with Core or others, and I hear good things, but for my first time out, I just wanted the peace of mind that I was more or less guaranteed a reputable customer service backup if the need arose since I knew with a build of differing parts and manufacturers, it might be an issue down the road. Just my two cents from someone who was in your shoes recently |
| Any recommendations on a 20" kit? I would love to build something with retro furniture (my father carried a 602 in the jungle). The retro forum is insanely loaded with talent and really cool builds, but I would never want to delve that deeply into a build. Keep it modern with just some simple changes like carry handle, triangle handguards, buttstock, etc. |
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For $800, you could do better than the choices you mention. For 16" barrel, mid length gas will give you a longer hand guard which will help with shooting accurately.
BCM upper with BCG and charging handle, $510 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16 Aero complete lower, $205 http://aeroprecisionusa.com/lower-receivers/complete-lowers.html?limit=all LaRue rear sight, $100 (there are cheaper ones, but this one is really nice...) http://www.larue.com/larue-tactical-buis-qd-lt-103 Cheap A2-style handguards, $20 OK, so over budget by $35... |
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Quoted: Also new here and thinking of a tax return purchase. I know colt is a good brand but is this a reasonable price? http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6721-ar15-a3-carbine-detail.html?Itemid=0 http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-freedom-16-m4-1-7-nitride-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ |
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OK, question here, for those who know far more than I...
Complete upper and complete lower means just sticking them together and engaging the two takedown pins -- done. Right? If so, then adding a $15 PMAG, $50 MBUS, and shipping from PSA at $35 puts that PSA rifle right at $600 total cost -- and in line with the same "stuff" (mags, sights, stock, foregrip, etc.) as you'd get with the Sport II. So, my question is, if you could pick up a Sport II for the same $600 total cost, can anyone talk about what things would make the PSA rifle a better option? I did note M4 feed ramps on the PSA upper, which I don't think the Sport has (and I have come to understand is a feature considered to be higher-level). Can anyone speak to anything else that makes the PSA rifle a higher-quality option than the Sport/Sport II? I'm curious to learn more about the "quality" of the individual components within these rifles, as I look forward to the future... Quoted:
Check the post above yours. Or: http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-freedom-16-m4-1-7-nitride-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ Quoted:
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Also new here and thinking of a tax return purchase. I know colt is a good brand but is this a reasonable price? http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6721-ar15-a3-carbine-detail.html?Itemid=0 http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-freedom-16-m4-1-7-nitride-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ |
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If you are looking at rifles in the $600-750 price range then you aren't going to beat the quality of piecing one together from PSA or BCM. So many people have echoed this comment and it is good advice from those that are more knowledgeable. You really should listen to it. You don't even have to "build" anything if you don't want to you can just buy a complete lower and a complete upper as mentioned here and it would literally take you 10 seconds to slap them together just like you would have to do if breaking it down to clean it.
One of the cheapest ways to go is to get a PSA kit and then get a stripped lower. But if you aren't wanting to put anything together then this way isn't the way to go. It isn't hard to put the lower receiver pieces in and would probably only take you about 45 mins if you follow a Youtube video. But if you don't want to do this, for roughly the same price you can just get the complete upper and a complete lower such as: 16" mid-length $409 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/8555/ or if you don't mind carbine gas $380 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14183/ or something a little cheaper and lesser quality but probably still a better rifle then most of the ones you are looking at $330 http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-midlength-slim-stainless-steel-5-56-nato-1-7-freedom-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html There are so many options available and you can choose whatever you like, my advice would be to stick with one of the Premium kits since it is in your price range and still much cheaper then the rifles you are looking at but of much higher quality in my opinion. After you get one of the upper kits like above you will need a lower receiver assembly such as: $160 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ Or if you want a Magpul MOE stock $190 http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/15072/ As mentioned above I highly recommend going with one of their Premium kits and if you add it up the price comes out to - $410 for the upper and $160 for the lower for a total of $570 for a mil-spec rifle with 16" mid-length gas and a chrome lined FN barrel. Doesn't get much better then that for something that is on par with the higher dollar rifles out there. If you'd picked the carbine upper from that group the price would be $540, and if you decided to go with the cheaper Freedom series it would be $490 total for something of equal if not better quality then the $600-750 ones you mentioned. And again, this is NOT building it is basically the same as buying a complete rifle except it is just in 2 pieces when you receive it. If you want something that is even higher quality and probably as good as if not better then a Colt then check out BCM for not much more. Here is a 16" lightweight upper that costs $510 after you add the BCG and charging handle to the options. This would be my top pick out of them all because the BCM BCG sells for $170 alone, and you also get their nice extended charging handle that costs $45, and it also comes with their Mod 0 Compensator that is $60-70 I believe. So this is one heck of a value for $510. You will still need a lower receiver assembly and a handguard. The best thing to do in this case would be to get the cheaper PSA lower receiver for $160, pick up a handguard for $15 and then you would only have a total of $685 plus shipping in a very high quality lightweight BCM rifle. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm The reason it is such a good price for such a high quality rifle is you are getting the lower receiver assembly from PSA. All lowers are basically identical so this makes for a great bargain by getting the PSA lower, and getting a BCM upper for the parts that really count. You will not find a better rifle for the price then this at $685 since it is in your price range. |
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Any lower will do the job. If you're unsure about building a lower you can always pick up a Palmetto state lower for $159 + ship. I just put one together for my father using the same lower and a 16" upper from androcorp industries. $170 (lower) $375 (upper) + $60 (bushnell red dot) $75 (sights). Throw in a couple p-mags and you're ready to go for $700.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ |
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Any lower will do the job. If you're unsure about building a lower you can always pick up a Palmetto state lower for $159 + ship. I just put one together for my father using the same lower and a 16" upper from androcorp industries. $170 (lower) $375 (upper) + $60 (bushnell red dot) $75 (sights). Throw in a couple p-mags and you're ready to go for $700. http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/14434/ Roger that, thanks. Now I just wish their was some quality 20" uppers in stock. 
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If you are set on a 20" rifle I would call BCM and ask em when they plan on getting their uppers back in stock because that is the best quality upper for the price you will find. Or another good option if you still are set on not building would be to look at the Equipment Exchange here - often times you will find many FN upper assemblies here. Not sure if you want a flat top upper or an A2 carry handle upper? A 16" mid-length is really a great option if you are on the fence. And another way you can save a few bucks is to take off the Comp 0 that comes on the BCM 16" and sell it for $60 or so and buy a standard A2 flash hider for $8. I don't like to add the Comp 0 into the total price because I don't care if it has it but I always remember you can sell it and take $50 off which makes it that much better. And their charging handle is worth another $25-30 over a standard one.
If you have any hands on skills what so ever then maybe you should consider building your own if you can't find what you are looking for already put together. It is very very easy and you only need a couple tools. An AR15 armorers wrench for $30, and an upper receiver vice block that can be had from Ebay for $15 shipped. Other then that you need a vice press which you probably already have, a set of needle nose pliers, and a smaller sized punch to push in the roll pins, and a hammer. From start to beginning it will probably take you an hour and half or so if it is your first time, and about a half hour for your second time. It isn't really building as much as it is assembling. The hardest part is getting the roll pins in the lower receiver. A lot of people are intimidated on installing a barrel, but I guess they don't realize it is as simple as turning a wrench and tightening it up like you would any other nut. There are so many options out there if you decide to go this way. But for one already put together I would wait on the BCM upper of your choice to come in stock, or get a Premium one from PSA. |
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FN barrel by PSA is great.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-hammer-forged-madness-stripped-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html ....but what are your thoughts on the PSA vs this Aero below (barrel wise)? http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-556-20-complete-upper-fsb.html |
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That is a hard question to answer between the 20" CHF PSA barrel vs the AERO that is QPQ treated. You will probably get divided answers on this one but the consensus is that they are both great barrels and probably fairly equal in terms of how well they are liked. But for the price the PSA will be cheaper if it ever is back in stock. You can see what the prices of the items are by adding them to the compare list and that upper is $399 from PSA - although their prices change quite often. But the Aero does come with a detachable carry handle sight and if you intend on using that it is probably at least a $60 value.
For my personal preference if it came down to picking one barrel or upper I would go with the Aero assuming they were the same price. I love QPQ/Melonited barrels and think they are nicer then chrome lined ones. But the PSA one is also CHF which is highly sought after and said to make a barrel that will last longer - this is sort of questionable and I don't think it would last much if any longer then the QPQ Aero one. And by that point you have already shot 15k rounds or so anyways so the cost of a new $150 barrel is not very much compared to the $5k of ammo you just shot through it. If you aren't against building your own you can have it for much cheaper. Get that exact same barrel from Ballistic Advantage (they are same as Aero) for $220 shipped with a FSB and Deltaring and Handguard cap. Add a gas tube for $10, Flash hider for $10, Handguard for $20, and pick up a stripped upper receiver from many places for $60-80. The total comes out to $320-340 total for the exact same thing minus the carry handle sight which you can pick up used here on the EE for around $40 if you want one. You would need 2 tools though that you could reuse forever and if you wanted to sell them after your done with them I am sure you could. Cost would be $30 for armorers wrench, and $15 shipped for receiver block for a total of $50ish shipped. Still comes out to be cheaper then buying the complete one and you will have the tools to build your own from there on out. Edited to add -if you go with Ballistic Advantage use their coupon code for 10% off at checkout it is " save10now ". |
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Edited to add -if you go with Ballistic Advantage use their coupon code for 10% off at checkout it is " save10now ". Like this one? http://ballisticadvantage.com/20-inch-556-gov-rifle-cmv-modern-barrel.html Thanks a ton 
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| Yup, no problem! I would add all the options for an extra $60, especially having the FSB pinned since they do it for free just the cost of the base itself. But you also get the 10% off on the added $60 option so it makes it cheaper. The total with everything comes out to $220.50 with free shipping. That is one heck of a deal for everything you get on such a high quality barrel. I love BA barrels and plan to get more in the future. I just wish they offered more lightweight options since that is what I like. |
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Any advice for a good entry level AR10? I'm guessing it won't be as affordable as the S&W M&P 15 sporter but I guess I'd still like to know. Thanks in advance. Large format ARs are more expensive because of the more limited suppliers and smaller number of buyers. In any case, DPMS Oracle is an inexpensive option for a complete rifle (~$800) while Palmetto State Armory (PSA) and Aero Precision offer some version of assemble (pin the built upper to the built lower) or build-it-yourself from parts AR-10s. Also, the longer range and capabilities of the .308 round attracts precision enthusiasts and mid-to-large game hunters so the cost of the equipment goes up to meet their needs. |
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20" and 16" PSA CHF MP CL 1:7 ...been very happy with durability quality accuracy and price on each one I have had for last 2 years and have Ben on Oly, Bushmaster and PSA lowers
Sign up for PSA in-stock notification : last week at 6am I got a notification and paid $309. for each of 2, 16 " premium CHF CL MP uppers + tax & ship. Delivered in 4 days and look great. With their "Blem" $189 lower, $125. full auto mpi BCG+CH will make a better equipped setup for same/less than a non chrome lined, no m4 feed ramp DPMS or S&W with no forward assist or dust cover. Same money: could have gotten less ... no way that some of these AR'S (some out there are "semiautomatic rifles") around 600-800$ are all the same. |
| This is what you want Bro. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_802555_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_YWill last you forever, never have to upgrade major components and has that pimp Magpul Integrated Trigger Guard Lower. |
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Aero AC-15M, $619 @ Brownells...
A quality mid-length rifle, just add a rear sight and your mags. |
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Core posted some hokey groups a while back. I havent heard great things about Core either. With prices so low, you would be better off with a different brand than Core for the money. Quoted:
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I'm far from an AR guru but I went with the Core 15 Scout. The only thing I've found on the negative side is that the Core does not like Tula. Other than that I haven't had an issue with it.Along those lines you may be interested in the following: https://www.classicfirearms.com/long-guns/?cat=52&dir=asc&order=price Good luck, Al Core posted some hokey groups a while back. I havent heard great things about Core either. With prices so low, you would be better off with a different brand than Core for the money. Since you haven't heard great things about Core, thought I'd post something so you can say you've heard great things about Core Just picked one up, along with a lady friend of mine picking hers up (her first AR), Both had excellent fit and finish, both performed perfect from the initial trigger pull on. Both were 620 bucks from Buds gunshop. What I liked about the particular model we picked up was that it already had the lo pro gas block installed with a hand guard end cap and m4 hand guard. If a person wanted to free float a hand guard it would be as simple as buying the hand guard, Simple removal of old parts and installing new hard guard. No pesky front sight post to replace or mess with removing those sometimes bitch of a FSP pins. So unless you just have it out for Core, you can say you've heard positive things about them now. I personally don't care what someone thinks of something, when it's hearsay, that's usual worth it's weight which is lighter than air. I've got a Colt, 3 M&P's, Ruger, Adams Arms, and 4 built with parts from Anderson, Palmetto, Tactical Machining, Faxon, VooDoo. I have no bias, only my personal experience, and I've had no issues with any of them. |
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