post a reply. Regarding the  Bottom of page 128 in the pay it forward,, by Stoner.
I was not there when the very original PIF was started,, BUT was there when Heatnbeat went looking for it, could not find it and started the new one we have today.
The pay it forward was establish out of "pure clean generosity" PERIOD.. Followed by honesty and integrity. Simple as that. Don't take what you don't need. If you put something up,, send it out. Don't put something up EXPECTING to get something back. The idea was to help out the next guy who REALLY needs help. I was ALWAYS VERY  proud of the members here for "cheering on" and helping out other peoples builds rather then knocking them.
When a person takes something,, then out of the same generosity the "taker" should put something up as soon as possible. Is it ok to put up an A2 pistol grip??  In my opinion, Yeah if that's all you have and you don't make a habit out of it,, I doubt anyone will mind. The idea is "pure generosity"
Is the PIF a WTT forum,, hell no. It's NOT a "I'll put up XXX if someone can send me YYY part." The ONLY expectation should be that the person putting an item up SHIPS IT OUT.
I personally have been disgusted with the pay it forward for a couple years now. And the thought of having to have moderators "police" the PIF ,,well just the thought is one of the reasons I'm disgusted. We are supposed to be mature adults with a common goal. Rescue, restore, preserve, and display our  historic firearms. I don't go to it at all. I send parts out when I read a thread where someone is down to needing a few last goodies. A silent PIF.  I hope that that person will do the same for someone else in the future. I've made several friends in this manner.
I only knew about Stoners request for "old timers" because of an email from one of my VERY close friends that  I made here. While I don't feel I really qualify as an "old timer" per say, I'm flattered that he requested my thoughts.
I would love to hear what Heatnbeat, PrivateSnafu, Hal143, OlGunner, Boywonder, and real old timers like Leid, Ekie, Tgus, ScottRyan, Madmanblake and others I'd have to try to remember have to say.  I also wish everyone would  take the time to read Morgs separate post,,, he's pretty fed up too. Thanks Morg....
Thanks for listening (reading) and now on to the tech info.
Note the difference in the steel followers in this pic. The left is an original waffle,, middle is an original full curve 30 rd. I've heard it mention in the past that the full curves used the exact same followers,,they don't.

It seems like the area I live in is an AR "dead zone". I've really paid attention the last couple years at gun shows, looking for retro. Parts are pretty few and far between. Looking does make it interesting though.........always the thought in the back of my mind that I'll score some green furniture........a real full curve instead of the AR180 I have.......I think I did see a unicorn once, but never anything green. Well, something greeen that didn't take all the green out of my wallet.

appreciate Rob and all his help with my builds here as well



straight shooter

Great points M1. I am a member on a few other gun boards and I have never run into a group like the retro "family" always willing to help and offer up their hard found treasures for free or to help a fellow "retro head" finish - or start a build. I do not offer on the PIF for a bunch of reasons, many like what M1 states. I will and have "donated" parts when I know the need is genuine and not someone trying to trade-up or sell the part off later. The PIF is a great idea at it's core, just  too easy to take advantage of someone's genuine generosity.

I couldn't have said it better,...worse yes.  This is the only forum in 15 years that I come too regularly.  Unique place, people and perspective.  Plus no one else will talk to me but you guys.

i'll take the full curve 30.  oh wait... this isn't the PIF thread

i gotta agree with rob in seeing the mods stepping into PIF was somewhat disappointing.  the fact that a thread based on paying it forward had to be moderated.

it looks like it's getting back on track.  maybe we just all need a gently reminder every once a while what the original intent was and self police like we always have.

But,,butt,,,buttttt dat would only leave me wifff 4 den.

Well said m1sniper. It is sad that a mod had to 'get into it', but I want to remind people that coctailer is not just a Mod, he's one of us. He's been here a long time, and does a great job. There are several other heavyweights, such as Aimless, who stop by here on a regular basis, and who have given us a great deal of latitude over the years. My impression is that they dig this forum just as much as we do, so let's all be cool. It's that simple. Just be nice to each other. Period. How hard is that?

I know that I am a newbie to the RETRO forum.......only a couple years even though I've lurked around Arfcom for a decade +.  I've always considered m1sniper one of the "look to" members. Thank you Rob for your input. I've noticed an absence of many long time RETRO members lately. I know that I am not ready for a "changing of the guard", and really do respect the opinion of those that have been active here in the retro forum for the length of time that you have been.

ohhh,,I'ma juss updating and fillin in some weak spots in de ole sniper rifle collection. I was hoping to post something new,,,ahhh,,ummm,,old at Christmas time, but the specialized machinist didn't finish yet. It'll be "retro", and it'll be an "anal meticulous" final product.
And just food for thought whether or not we realize it. Our "retro" forum is a pay it forward in it's own right. The guys before us passed on info to the next set of guys, who then pass it on to the next, etc, etc. and as new info is discovered,that gets added in too..... ALL FOR FREE,,ya hear that???? Lemme say it again,,,,,
ALL FOR FREE and out of the kindness of their hearts ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, imagine that.......................Mind boggling ain't it...
And BTW Stoner,, you have become an important and valuable family member here..........Ya FNG ya.....

I covet a full curve mag.

I don't like being covetous.  

Understand, I'm not interested in controlling said covetousness.

I simply want to have everything nice so there will be nothing left to covet.

...Does that make me a bad person?  

As for the other topic, I agree completely with sniper.  That thread is about doing something nice for someone else. Period.  "Rules" tend to diminish the purity of generosity.
Honestly, I don't even like the idea of "if you take something, put something up."  The benefit of paying it forward is not always instant, and that's cool.  If you need something that's offered, I think you should take it.  If you don't have anything to offer others, okay!  Someday, hopefully, you'll find a way to help a retro brother.
The only thing I'd ask from anyone who takes something that's offered is this: Appreciate the Gesture.  When we appreciate a kindness, we're almost certain to extend it to someone else...when we can.  That's how we Pay it Forward.

One last observation.  If you're not comfortable in the PIF thread, just remember it's just one way to help someone.
I've seen a lot of generosity around here, from a lot of members.  That's the way friendships are supposed to work (even digital friendships).

So remember, dudes-- Be Excellent to Each Other!  

IM and e-mails sent !

Just kidding

Umm, I have not said anything about PIF, and probably should not say much. I participated in it briefly back in the day, and then dropped out. Probably I should stop being so stingy and rejoin the human race in that regard. Never stopped browsing PIF, it is a nice reminder of the basic generosity of folks here. Thanks to those who post there and keep it alive and running

^ This and extra bonus points for the "Bill and Ted" reference

I have enjoyed the forum as well - even though I am also an FNG compared to others!  My PERSONAL approach is to keep the PIF alive and active regardless of when I can do it.  But I do try to be especially vigilant at participating when I have taken something.  Sometimes I think we keep score - in well meaning ways - and often for other people.  So I understand the feeling, but what we all need to keep in mind is, no one has a complete view of PIF activities and so we shouldn't worry about fairness per se.  

Take when it seems right, and don't sweat it, give when you can - regardless of who takes it.  As the saying goes "Time wounds all heels".

Now - on the technical info... So what is the story on follower progression here - the matte vs the shiny aluminum must fit after the full curve but before the green one?

I have spoken to most of you privately about this situation and I think/know we will get passed this hiccup, and just want to say I have the greatest respect for each of you and over the years have become real good friends with a few of you retroheads. Even though we literally spent our youths in the same small town m1sniper and I have never met but I consider Rob to be a good friend that I can call, Email, etc. It can either to B.S. about Colchester and Lebanon or to pick his brain about my OCD complex concernimg the right little Retro parts like bronze port door springs on 602's and early 604's or about building a M14 Clone. I' m honored to know you all and to those that are my true friends(You know who you are), Thank You for being my friend and being there for me, especially through my Broher's Cancer Diagnosis and Surgeries.

I would like to thank, Rob also as he has helped me out in the past and just a few days ago He is well versed on the retro forum and has a lot of connections and recourses that are of great value, and agree with his take on pay it forward. There seems to be a few that are taking a lot of parts this site is to help everyone in the retro world. I personally don't go to that site for that reason. Rod has always been in the forefront of helping with Tec questions and data Thanks again Rob

All is right in Retro Land once more.

Saint Eugene is pleased.



Let's NOT piss him off again!

The smoke is again white from the blessed chimney.

To be honest I haven't been on here much. So I went back on the PIF a few pages.
I happen to agree with Rob, Morg,  ( and pretty much everyone else) we need to get back on track with helping out a brother, just to be helping out a brother. Slow down and take a deep breath and act your age.
Now I am sounding like old geezer.

And just to stir to (tech) pot.
The last follower to be used in the waffle magazine is stamped steel like the one in the full curve.
I don't know who's photos these are that I saved many years ago, but look at the follower in far right mag. It's not the same, but they both used stamped steel followers.

Pretty sure creds go to Peter_Sam for those pics..^^^^^^^