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Posted: 4/19/2016 3:49:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 3:50:58 PM EDT by cjsoccer4]
Can someone please tell me Daniel Defense hasn't gone to shit? I have a DDM4 MK12 and a MK18 upper (sbr). I love them, so I ordered a DDM4v5. The new cover is plastic. Wtf? I called Daniel Defense to politely inquire. They said it's just as durable, much lighter, and less likely to get bent and mess up the functioning of the bolt carrier.

It sounds reasonable, but come on...it's made of plastic...was this really done to benefit the rifle? Or just cut costs and make more money...
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 3:58:48 PM EDT
Yeah, mine showed up with a plastic pistol grip AND stock!!!

WTF!!!


Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:01:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:05:53 PM EDT
It is a dust cover it just covers the ejection port.  Plastic or metal what difference does it honestly make.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:06:54 PM EDT
That weight savings must be huge!
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:09:36 PM EDT
HK416 has a plastic cover. That's been places basement dwellers can only fap to.







Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:13:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.
View Quote


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:16:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:18:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chibajoe:


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.
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Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.



Technically it is not the materials but a combination of design and materials.

However, I do not like, or should say, I hate plastic guns parts.

Absolutely, unequivocally hate them.




Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:28:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chibajoe:


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.
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Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.


Someone missed the torture test on this subject.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:31:09 PM EDT
A lot of the AR manufactures are going to plastic dust covers on their guns, pretty normal now a days.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:35:01 PM EDT
link to torture test? My search skills have failed me
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:35:24 PM EDT
I used to work at the Remington Factory doing some R&D work.  Really surprised me how so little effort went into "new" designs.  Fact of the matter is that firearms tech hasn't changed much since the early 1900s.  Most of our efforts were geared towards new alloys for 870 receivers, alternate woods for stocks, cutting down unnecessary features that add to the price point.  The reality is that gun manufacturers really struggle to survive; the profit margins on shotguns and the like are shockingly small and they still struggle to sell them in non-panic times.  Anything they can do to lower the price point and get new folks to buy guns, they'll do.  And I don't blame them one bit.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:35:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DontBuryMe:


Someone missed the torture test on this subject.
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Originally Posted By DontBuryMe:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.


Someone missed the torture test on this subject.



How exactly do you torture test a dust cover lol.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 4:38:54 PM EDT by EdgecrusherXES]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:



Technically it is not the materials but a combination of design and materials.

However, I do not like, or should say, I hate plastic guns parts.

Absolutely, unequivocally hate them.




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Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.



Technically it is not the materials but a combination of design and materials.

However, I do not like, or should say, I hate plastic guns parts.

Absolutely, unequivocally hate them.






Hate them based on what..... in some circumstances polymer/plastic is a better option than metal.  Plastics have advantages that metals just cannot replicate and vis versa metals have advantages that plastics cannot replicate.  So to say you hate plastic gun parts just does not make sense.  What is your stock made of or grip?  Do you also hate plastic car parts?

Link to Test
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:40:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bes53181:



How exactly do you torture test a dust cover lol.
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Originally Posted By bes53181:
Originally Posted By DontBuryMe:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.


Someone missed the torture test on this subject.



How exactly do you torture test a dust cover lol.


Read the red and bold text in the quote tree.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:31:34 PM EDT
HK 416/417/MR series have plastic ejection port covers, too.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:34:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:54:11 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lancelot:


The most durable folding sights are polymer.
View Quote




 


Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:00:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 6:02:03 PM EDT by mouthpiece]
An AR rifle with Magpul Mbus sights was leaned against a steel table at the range, the butt was on the ground, the barrel slid down the edge of the tabletop and both sight hit the cement and broke.
Magpul did replace both.
I do not prefer plastic sights but plastic grips and stocks have proven to be durable.
I am not sure about plastic dust covers, time will tell.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:04:07 PM EDT
That really would not bother me.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:07:33 PM EDT
For the most part, unless you are crab crawling through the sand or swimming in the canal, you don't need a dust cover and plastic or metal, they all do the same exact thing.  My current build does not even have the mounts for a dust cover and it does not have the mount for a Forward Assist.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:15:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 6:16:37 PM EDT by JJREA]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES:


Hate them based on what..... in some circumstances polymer/plastic is a better option than metal.  Plastics have advantages that metals just cannot replicate and vis versa metals have advantages that plastics cannot replicate.  So to say you hate plastic gun parts just does not make sense.  What is your stock made of or grip?  Do you also hate plastic car parts?

Link to Test
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Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES:
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.



Technically it is not the materials but a combination of design and materials.

However, I do not like, or should say, I hate plastic guns parts.

Absolutely, unequivocally hate them.






Hate them based on what..... in some circumstances polymer/plastic is a better option than metal.  Plastics have advantages that metals just cannot replicate and vis versa metals have advantages that plastics cannot replicate.  So to say you hate plastic gun parts just does not make sense.  What is your stock made of or grip?  Do you also hate plastic car parts?

Link to Test


I'll be honest.  I'm skeptical.  Plus this is ONE test.  Which I'm guessing was done well, but I'm still skeptical.   I know the magpul sights have been out for a little while, but I'm not sure if they've been out long enough to quantify if they're as good or not as good.  1 test just doesn't make me all confident.  As someone else just posted in this thread theirs busted from falling from a standing position.  

That being said, all the flippy ones make me a little nervous and I use detachable ones that are like the fixed.  A cut Carry Handle or LMT rear, and LMT front.  OR one of those HK fronts...  Something like that.  The folding ones, IMHO, are best left to emergency only.   That's how I see it.  But I'm no expert.  

But yeah, an ejection port is probably nothing to get your underwear in a bundle about.  I love the comment about how much it will save you in weight.  LOL.  
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:19:05 PM EDT
I want the plastic one in Tornado Grey
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:21:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 6:22:23 PM EDT by tweeter]
The only Daniel Defense parts I have ever coveted are their barrels.  And now that I can procure cut-rifling barrels easily on the East Asian black market more freely, I no longer want them.

They have fallen from my favor.  I have banished them.


p.s. - lol dust cover.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 6:58:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 7:00:56 PM EDT by DefenderAO]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lancelot:

  If you read the BUIS torture test, the Magpul polymers sights won.


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Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.

  If you read the BUIS torture test, the Magpul polymers sights won.




It went up against sights that wouldn't give when hit either.  The locking versions are going to lose a drop test.  The plastic magpuls just fold.

I've also seen plastic magpuls melt under barrel and rail heat.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:12:32 PM EDT
I'll stay with my steel folding sights.
One drop test isn't exactly a scientific experiment.



Dave N
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:16:41 PM EDT
the sight deal's moot, real rifles have fixed IRON sights.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:18:49 PM EDT
I've replaced all my dust covers with strike industries covers.  Guess what they are plastic
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:26:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stickman:



Is it in their product description?  
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Originally Posted By Stickman:
Originally Posted By cjsoccer4:
Can someone please tell me Daniel Defense hasn't gone to shit? I have a DDM4 MK12 and a MK18 upper (sbr). I love them, so I ordered a DDM4v5. The new cover is plastic. Wtf? I called Daniel Defense to politely inquire. They said it's just as durable, much lighter, and less likely to get bent and mess up the functioning of the bolt carrier.

It sounds reasonable, but come on...it's made of plastic...was this really done to benefit the rifle? Or just cut costs and make more money...



Is it in their product description?  


This is the only reason I'd think you'd be upset if you were expecting a different ejection port cover... then again its dirty cheap and easy enough to change if one had a preference
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:36:19 PM EDT
If this thread isn't a new record low for petty bullshit, I don't know what is



Coming from someone that has actually used their rifle off the one way range, I can tell you first hand that after the barrel, the ejection port cover is the quickest to rust. Also have had a bent one that wouldn't close because of that. Give me a plastic one all the way.




Hating a part because of its materials is offensive to your "feels"? Liberals make decisions based on feels.




And having fixed iron sights make it a "real" rifle? How about whatever makes me more effective at killing my enemy makes a real rifle.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 7:57:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 8:06:19 PM EDT by cjsoccer4]
Daniel Defense seemed to be a staple in the "mil spec or better" market. At least prior to this, I considered them mil spec. Now I'm debating buying a new dust cover so I don't have to look at the ugly thing.

It doesn't even look nice, sturdy, or whatever...If it's not broken don't fix it, Daniel Defense, like who has heard of a dust cover bending? This had to have been a money decision.

This is new new. The gun's on DD's website don't have this dust cover on them; it looks very different, and imho, it looks like crap. Wish DD would update the photos we all knew what we were getting.

Once you see the plastic, you may run, idk. I'm just saying, it...actually...looks awful. This is my third Daniel Defense configuration; I ought to be a complacent "fanboy," and I'm actually upset about it...
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:04:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 8:04:58 PM EDT by DontBuryMe]
Yeah I'm sure they're really raking it in now that they've made the switch to polymer ejection port covers.

ETA: Let's get a pic, OP.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:08:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 8:10:07 PM EDT by DaveP1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cjsoccer4:
Daniel Defense seemed to be a staple in the "mil spec or better" market. At least prior to this, I considered them mil spec. Now I'm debating buying a new dust cover so I don't have to look at the ugly thing.

It doesn't even look nice, sturdy, or whatever...If it's not broken don't fix it, Daniel Defense, like who has heard of a dust cover bending? This had to have been a money decision.

This is new new. The gun's on DD's website don't have this dust cover on them; it looks very different, and imho, it looks like crap. Wish DD would update the photos we all knew what we were getting.

Once you see the plastic, you may run, idk. I'm just saying, it...actually...looks awful. This is my third Daniel Defense configuration; I ought to be a complacent "fanboy," and I'm actually upset about it...
View Quote


You poor baby, I am crying crocodile tears for ya!  Send my your address and I will send you an original DD dust cover, free of charge!  My guns that have dust covers have been replaced with poly covers, they don't dent, they don't bend and they work every single time.


Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:25:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cjsoccer4:
Daniel Defense seemed to be a staple in the "mil spec or better" market. At least prior to this, I considered them mil spec. Now I'm debating buying a new dust cover so I don't have to look at the ugly thing.

It doesn't even look nice, sturdy, or whatever...If it's not broken don't fix it, Daniel Defense, like who has heard of a dust cover bending? This had to have been a money decision.

This is new new. The gun's on DD's website don't have this dust cover on them; it looks very different, and imho, it looks like crap. Wish DD would update the photos we all knew what we were getting.

Once you see the plastic, you may run, idk. I'm just saying, it...actually...looks awful. This is my third Daniel Defense configuration; I ought to be a complacent "fanboy," and I'm actually upset about it...
View Quote


I am very happy for you not to mention envious. I only wish I could live such a happy zippity doo dah life that a dust cover on a rifle could make me "actually upset".
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:28:13 PM EDT
I hate scrolling through general discussion and seeing this thread. Daniel Defense has not gone to shit and the quality is exceptional. /thread
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:32:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeviantHero:
I hate scrolling through general discussion and seeing this thread. Daniel Defense has not gone to shit and the quality is exceptional. /thread
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hold on, we've seen a few threads of late on issues with DD.  No one is immune to qc issues but as much as I like DD, see no reason to spend the extra coin over a Colt

I won't use plastic on hard use rifles at all.  I've seen magpul sights break in class when dropped and agree, one test is not scientific.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:38:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 8:38:43 PM EDT by Scuds03]
My slick side upper didn't come with a dust cover at all!  Much dust will enter my rifle.  I'm pissed!
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:38:54 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ElvisTCB:
I am very happy for you not to mention envious. I only wish I could live such a happy zippity doo dah life that a dust cover on a rifle could make me "actually upset".
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Originally Posted By ElvisTCB:



Originally Posted By cjsoccer4:

Daniel Defense seemed to be a staple in the "mil spec or better" market. At least prior to this, I considered them mil spec. Now I'm debating buying a new dust cover so I don't have to look at the ugly thing.



It doesn't even look nice, sturdy, or whatever...If it's not broken don't fix it, Daniel Defense, like who has heard of a dust cover bending? This had to have been a money decision.



This is new new. The gun's on DD's website don't have this dust cover on them; it looks very different, and imho, it looks like crap. Wish DD would update the photos we all knew what we were getting.



Once you see the plastic, you may run, idk. I'm just saying, it...actually...looks awful. This is my third Daniel Defense configuration; I ought to be a complacent "fanboy," and I'm actually upset about it...




I am very happy for you not to mention envious. I only wish I could live such a happy zippity doo dah life that a dust cover on a rifle could make me "actually upset".




 
Lol, no shit.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:39:16 PM EDT
is it this?? if so wash the sand out of your vagina

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:39:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scuds03:
My slick side upper didn't come with a dust cover at all!  Much dust will enter my rifle.  I'm pissed!
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This!  WTF is this "dust cover" you speak of...
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:48:55 PM EDT
One test means jack shit.

If its consistently reproduced, that's a different story.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:51:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 8:58:16 PM EDT by cjsoccer4]
In my opinion, old Daniel Defense had it a lot better. This is the old.
New. I get that it's just a dust cover; what irks me is what else have they changed? At least update the website and talk about your "upgrades." I actually care about and read the specs. If the MSRP of your gun is $1700..you wouldn't be down to play Guinea pigs, either. A lot of you guys who made Daniel Defense orders recently will be getting mystery rifles in the mail...
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:57:09 PM EDT
This has been common knowledge to anyone who frequents the DD industry forum.

Please link to all of these other threads highlighting issues with DD products. They are still one of the best in the industry.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:59:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chibajoe:


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.
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Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Lancelot:
The most durable folding sights are polymer. Glocks are polymer. I'm sure a dust cover made of polymer is no different. Probably cheaper to make, and potentially more durable.


No, they're not, and I can't believe a mod would say something like that.  The most durable folding sights are made out of steel.  


While I'm sure plastic dust covers are more than adequately durable, the likelihood of them being as durable as steel dust covers is miniscule.


Nope he's correct.

There's been some drop testing done on BUIS and the Magpuls held zero better than Troy and a bunch of other metal sites.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 9:16:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 9:16:07 PM EDT by Lancelot]
no longer techincal, just purse swinging
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