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Posted: 11/1/2015 2:08:49 AM EDT
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I was wondering if anyone had an idea of what all parts were marked? I know the list below contains the parts, but due to my extreme OCD, I want to make sure it's done as authentically as possible.
The parts I'm pretty sure were marked are as follows: Upper Receiver Selector Switch Hammer Trigger Pistol Grip Stock Forward Assist From what I can gather, the bolt was only "MP" marked, the carrier group MAY have been marked between the gas keys (uncertain on that), and the charging handle....I'm not sure if it was marked (guessing so, but not sure how). Barrel I think was MP 12 marked with a forged FSB/no drainhole (later ones may have had them, but the contract expired in the span of only a couple years....so I doubt it). I'd greatly appreciate help with locating additional pieces as well. I'm mainly at this point pricing things out, but I'm finding some pieces cheap here and there...(or comparatively cheaply....since my 2 previous builds are 601s....neither FULLY complete yet). Thanks in advance for the help. v/r, Jon |
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Check out the information in this subject within the "Information Link" section...
HR or GM upper |
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Here are a few examples.
Selectors have numbers on back of lever with a half moon roll over from the mold number. If that makes sense. Just look at the photos. The early ones are dimpled on both ends. 
Hammer have raised numbers inside a recessed circle. And can be on either side of hammer. 
Triggers, mold numbers same as hammers. 
Pistol grip is fat with a crude raised number. 
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I have seen that piece. I haven't seen anything indicating what parts were marked besides the upper receiver (Yes...I know that having anything other than H&R upper and forward assist in agreement is pure OCD. I have a problem....lol.
The other challenge is that the parts jump back and forth between the H&R and GMs. I can't find something specifying how the H&R bolts were marked (if they were), pistol grips, etc. I saw WillyP's guide, and that helped on a couple of parts. There are still other markings that I haven't seen, so I figured I'd put something together. Maybe it's in there and I'm missing it, but the back and forth between the H&R and GMs. I'll post some pictures and stuff as well as I find components. PrivateSnafu: Thank you for the photos of the grip!! That was one I'd been looking with. It seems that 1 and 3 were contract numbers awarded to H&R parts (have seen 1 on selectors, forward assists, hammers, and triggers, 3 on pistol grips and hammers....I'm sure that all numbers were on both....just from the pieces I've seen). The 4 markings I've only seen on GMs. Not arguing the point, but merely a question/observation. Do we know if the buttstock were marked (I know GMs were)? v/r, Jon |
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I'm unaware of HR uppers being marked at all other than the presence of flash. The rear of GM charging handles have a small series of impressed dots. Possibly the same for HR.
GM stocks and HG's have a stylized cross mold mark. Possibly the same for HR but not sure. Bolts are said to be marked MP parallel to the extractor per Private Snafu. |
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Quoted:
I'm unaware of HR uppers being marked at all other than the presence of flash. The rear of GM charging handles have a small series of impressed dots. Possibly the same for HR. GM stocks and HG's have a stylized cross mold mark. Possibly the same for HR but not sure. Bolts are said to be marked MP parallel to the extractor per Private Snafu. Per Weaponsmans first. |
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Quoted:
I have seen that piece. I haven't seen anything indicating what parts were marked besides the upper receiver (Yes...I know that having anything other than H&R upper and forward assist in agreement is pure OCD. I have a problem....lol. The other challenge is that the parts jump back and forth between the H&R and GMs. I can't find something specifying how the H&R bolts were marked (if they were), pistol grips, etc. I saw WillyP's guide, and that helped on a couple of parts. There are still other markings that I haven't seen, so I figured I'd put something together. Maybe it's in there and I'm missing it, but the back and forth between the H&R and GMs. I'll post some pictures and stuff as well as I find components. PrivateSnafu: Thank you for the photos of the grip!! That was one I'd been looking with. It seems that 1 and 3 were contract numbers awarded to H&R parts (have seen 1 on selectors, forward assists, hammers, and triggers, 3 on pistol grips and hammers....I'm sure that all numbers were on both....just from the pieces I've seen). The 4 markings I've only seen on GMs. Not arguing the point, but merely a question/observation. Do we know if the buttstock were marked (I know GMs were)? v/r, Jon The numbers on the parts are the mold numbers. Used to identify each the mold or die being used in manufacturing the part. I have observed numbers 1 through 4 on H&R hammers and triggers. And also bolt catches and forward assists. I have also observed handguards with the same crude numbers(were the plus or cross is on the GMs) as the H&R pistol grips. Since all the handguards I've seen are off of the rifle, we can't say these are H&R handguards. Not until someone can verify this on unaltered H&R rifles. |
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I sent a request to a guy with a gunbroker unfired M16A1 made by H&R. good to know on the mold numbers. I appreciate the info, and the learning is greatly appreciated.
I know that the bulk of this is nothing more than my own desire/twerpiness,it's just something that I want to do as authentically as possible. ....and the details matter. Although I know that some of this is speculation, especially with the military doing a lot of mix and match. V/R, Jon |
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On the charging handles (Yeah...I know...splitting hairs) or bolt carriers, are there any markings that you have seen? I see the forge markings for the GM carriers, but cannot recall if there was something specific to the H&Rs.
The project is coming along beautifully. I'm hoping to post updates here very soon as well. v/r, Jon |
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Quoted:
<trim> Pistol grip is fat with a crude raised number. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/H%20and%20R%20Stuff/IMG_3499_zpsasezcro4.jpg Quoted:
<trim> Pistol grip is fat with a crude raised number. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/H%20and%20R%20Stuff/IMG_3499_zpsasezcro4.jpg I just noticed all the cool stuff going on in this thread, that grip is what I have been calling "number in circle" in other threads, the ones I have come across have more spacing in the checkering than other grips. Quoted:
I sent a request to a guy with a gunbroker unfired M16A1 made by H&R. good to know on the mold numbers. I appreciate the info, and the learning is greatly appreciated. I know that the bulk of this is nothing more than my own desire/twerpiness,it's just something that I want to do as authentically as possible. ....and the details matter. Although I know that some of this is speculation, especially with the military doing a lot of mix and match. V/R, Jon If we are thinking about the same current auction, that might be a very helpful example. Things I have noticed on that one are: 1) take down pin dimpled on both sides, pivot pin not dimpled 2) upper receiver forging looks the same as a crushed upper I posted recently on the tacked GM H&R thread, I can't tell if there is front / rear flash 3) checkering on the grip looks the same as the ones with the numbered grip that PrivateSnafu posted earlier in this thread (what I have been calling "number in circle") 4) numbered bolt catch and hammer 5) step in bolt carrier that I believe willp mentioned in earlier posts We don't know who will win that auction, if you are in communication with the seller can you ask for some more pictures / information? Things I would like to know are: Forging flash on the front / rear of the upper receiver? Forging flash on the FSB? Forge codes on the FSB bayonet lug? Confirm the "C" is in line with the "MP" on the barrel Confirm the "MP" marking / orientation on the bolt Confirm the grip is numbered Picture of the top, back, and left side of the charging handle "T" |
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Quoted:
I just noticed all the cool stuff going on in this thread, that grip is what I have been calling "number in circle" in other threads, the ones I have come across have more spacing in the checkering than other grips. If we are thinking about the same current auction, that might be a very helpful example. Things I have noticed on that one are: 1) take down pin dimpled on both sides, pivot pin not dimpled 2) upper receiver forging looks the same as a crushed upper I posted recently on the tacked GM H&R thread, I can't tell if there is front / rear flash 3) checkering on the grip looks the same as the ones with the numbered grip that PrivateSnafu posted earlier in this thread (what I have been calling "number in circle") 4) numbered bolt catch and hammer 5) step in bolt carrier that I believe willp mentioned in earlier posts We don't know who will win that auction, if you are in communication with the seller can you ask for some more pictures / information? Things I would like to know are: Forging flash on the front / rear of the upper receiver? Forging flash on the FSB? Forge codes on the FSB bayonet lug? Confirm the "C" is in line with the "MP" on the barrel Confirm the "MP" marking / orientation on the bolt Confirm the grip is numbered Picture of the top, back, and left side of the charging handle "T" Quoted:
Quoted:
<trim> Pistol grip is fat with a crude raised number. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/H%20and%20R%20Stuff/IMG_3499_zpsasezcro4.jpg I just noticed all the cool stuff going on in this thread, that grip is what I have been calling "number in circle" in other threads, the ones I have come across have more spacing in the checkering than other grips. Quoted:
I sent a request to a guy with a gunbroker unfired M16A1 made by H&R. good to know on the mold numbers. I appreciate the info, and the learning is greatly appreciated. I know that the bulk of this is nothing more than my own desire/twerpiness,it's just something that I want to do as authentically as possible. ....and the details matter. Although I know that some of this is speculation, especially with the military doing a lot of mix and match. V/R, Jon If we are thinking about the same current auction, that might be a very helpful example. Things I have noticed on that one are: 1) take down pin dimpled on both sides, pivot pin not dimpled 2) upper receiver forging looks the same as a crushed upper I posted recently on the tacked GM H&R thread, I can't tell if there is front / rear flash 3) checkering on the grip looks the same as the ones with the numbered grip that PrivateSnafu posted earlier in this thread (what I have been calling "number in circle") 4) numbered bolt catch and hammer 5) step in bolt carrier that I believe willp mentioned in earlier posts We don't know who will win that auction, if you are in communication with the seller can you ask for some more pictures / information? Things I would like to know are: Forging flash on the front / rear of the upper receiver? Forging flash on the FSB? Forge codes on the FSB bayonet lug? Confirm the "C" is in line with the "MP" on the barrel Confirm the "MP" marking / orientation on the bolt Confirm the grip is numbered Picture of the top, back, and left side of the charging handle "T" He didn't respond to me, which I didn't think he probably would. When discussing a $32k rifle, having someone asking you to unscrew stuff to get pictures to appease those of us who are beyond OCD is a bit of a stretch. I did have the MP orientation confirmed via another "guaranteed original", but also was advised that there are apparently two fonts used for the MP on the bolts. I just recently picked up a bolt that was apparently an early H&R. I was going to offer to pay him for the time, but ultimately I don't know that he'd do it as it could potentially affect the resale value of the weapon if there is ANY disassembly involved. BCG, rear sight, and barrel/FSB are the parts that I REALLY am interested in having reviewed. I did see that there are two other low-round H&Rs that had the MP C all in-line, but it did not look like there was a forge code on the same area on the FSB as the one shown. If I can get the funds, there's an MP marked barrel that I'm trying to work on getting that has the MP C and an unmarked FSB that I suspect may potentially be a H&R....but wanted to see it. I can confirm numbering on FCG as well....as I've managed to locate a H&R FCG. v/r, Jon |
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In doing the parts hunting, still looking for a few parts, but I'm struggling to find H&R parts here and there. However, there are a few things that I'm looking to clarify.
From reading up the forums, I know that the GMs had solidly rounded ejection port doors, but cannot tell for sure if the H&Rs had the same?? Likewise, the rear sight assembly seems to indicate interchangeability between the two styles of "3" shapes. Both had the flat tops, but GMs seemed to have the "downward pointing 3", whereas both GM and H&R seemed to have the flat top 3 with "perky butt" (where the bottom half circles back up towards the top). Furthermore, does anyone know how a H&R stock was marked??? I know I'm really splitting hairs here, but I'm very interested in the learning, and there doesn't appear to be much information available. Likewise, if anyone has a lead on hardware, barrels, or other contract parts, I'm interested for sure. So far I've located a good number of pieces, but am simply trying to verify on some stuff....as my own retro parts collection grows. Wanting to make sure and make the retro community proud with the best that I can offer ;) v/r, Jon |
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