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Posted: 10/22/2004 10:01:23 AM EDT
The ground rules. But dynamics at Colt being what they are, the two contenders would probably be either Bushmaster and Rock River Arms. I have a Colt (old HBATR) and I have a BM (VMatch Carbine). Never had a RR, but DEA aparently liked them?

Background. This time I was initially going to go nuts and just have local order me a 6 position telescoping lower from BM, and I was going to order the upper wiwth the ARMS SIR System. While that was turning into the nightmare from hell that it did, I started thinking, "what are you going to put on the gun?" Answer was rear sight optics and a light So I though why all the SIRS gear for THAT?

So I kind of abandoned that idea and decided to just order a quasi military type AR Carbine from either BM or RR.

Then when I went on RR's website I was able to build EXACTLY what I would have wanted (by adding a Hoague Grip and a Qud Rail forearm). Plus they come with two stage triggers (matter of taste - I like them). They'd have to be special ordered on the BM.

Anybody not like Rock River Arms or have any insight as to why one over the other? Or neither?


Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:24:19 AM EDT
RRA is excellent quality, but they don't chrome line all of their models. you better check first.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:30:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 10:30:25 AM EDT by Retched_Rick]
I put a RRA M4 togther using RRA upper and lower and sent the upper to Bushmaster for a 14.5 barrel with phantom.

Best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:31:27 AM EDT
I'm building an Ameetec lower using all RRA parts. I just ordered the LPK, Hogue grip and M4 stock. I'll be putting a RRA complete upper on it from Adco. After reading everything I could find here I decided RRA is the best for the money. I'll be able to build this M4 for nearly $150-200 less than a comparable store bought Bushmaster and will probably be just as good of a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:37:25 AM EDT
Yeah. The chrome barrel thing on their website has me confused. But you (I) want chrome, not chromoloy? Right?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:42:05 AM EDT
Half of my AR is RRA (the upper). The quality is excellent so for that alone, I'd recommend them to you. The part I hate most about BM is how much they jack up their prices. The simplest thing will be 1.5 times as expensive if ordered from the BM website versus any one of the dealers supporting this board. The fact they put in a 2 stage in all their guns makes them unique among non-custom/specialty builders. The reason the DEA chose RRA over everyone else was for durability and consistency of parts.
The biggest problem with the SIR is weight. I guess if you're using your AR as a blunt imact device on a regular basis, extreme durability would matter. If it's just going to be used for home defense and a range gun, I'd suggest getting something lighter.
The RRA rail is from what I understand one of the heavier rails out there. For a carbine though, and for $120 installed, it's hard to beat. I have a FF aluminum tube on mine right now but I just don't like the way it looks, so it will be getting replaced with a PRI Gen III tube in the future.
If you want a chrome lined bore though, call up RRA and ask them if you can replace the standard CAR barrel with the chrome-lined R-4 barrel. It will lighten up your barrel by using the R-4 profile as well as making it easier to clean. You're from my home state (temporarily in Illinois) so we both know rust isn't too big of an issue.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FED-up:
Yeah. The chrome barrel thing on their website has me confused. But you (I) want chrome, not chromoloy? Right?

Chromoly is not chrome lined.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:49:06 PM EDT
I love my LMT. You may want to look at them as an option.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:31:24 PM EDT
RRA is great. I have (1) colt (1) bushy and several RRA. RRA is a great value at the price. nothing against colt or bush, but they do inflate their prices. ADCO has been getting most of my business for the uppers.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:54:10 PM EDT
Call Grant at Gander Tactical and ask him about LMT uppers! Denny @ Denny'sGuns/GTS has LMT, LMT/DSA, and LMT/PWA, lowers at great prices too.(although I don't think the LMT marked lowers are sold stripped). I would highly suggest looking into LMT, mine is fantastic!JMO
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:42:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 2:45:14 PM EDT by Vinh]

Originally Posted By caneau:
The reason the DEA chose RRA over everyone else was for durability and consistency of parts.

Didn't Colt and SigArms both get larger DEA contracts than RRA?

Edited to add that I recommend LMT as well, although quite expensive (you didn't mention a budget).
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:03:46 PM EDT
Budget's not a problem. Within the confines of "reasonable." I'm not chasing a $3k target gun. Just looking for portable, reliable, combat worthy AR. I think I'm going to try the RR? Just for the pure heck of it. Thanks for everybody's input. Keep talking, I'll keep checking.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:13:44 PM EDT
I have no problems with my RRA M4 (with chrome lined barrel) I would not trade it for anything.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:58:06 PM EDT
I have a Bushmaster Varminter and a RRA lower with RRA 20" varmint upper. Both shoot very well.
One day the the BM has the edge and the next day it's the RRA. The RRA upper and lower fit better. The bolt carrier and bolt are machined better on the BM. The finish on the RRA is a little coarser. Over all I give the Bushmaster a very very slight edge, but tomorrow I may change my
mind. I think you can't go wrong with either one.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:16:28 PM EDT
For many federal agencies, the agents have an option of choosing which weapons they prefer. Sigs, especially the 226 and 228 are very popular and the standard carbine used to be a Colt. What was so revolutionary about the RRA DEA Carbine is that it was one of the first guns used by the non-military government to really start adopting all the off-the-shelf accessories we take for granted. Before, most of the federal agencies never used a rifle with a rail system, light, VFG, flat-top upper, EOTech, etc. Most used A2 uppers and sometimes even 20" barrels. Not exactly the ideal combination for an entry team. The DEA Carbine is the first weapon to really incorporate all the features that have appeared over the last few years into one, consistent, reliable design. So have Sig and Colt had larger contracts in the past? Absolutely.
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