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Posted: 9/20/2004 2:08:38 PM EDT
First off I want say hello because this is my first post. I've been looking around the site for a couple of weeks now. An realized how much a really dont know about the accessories for these rifles.

Backround:Im a former Marine 0311 with alot of time behind the M16A2. Im now a LEO and plan on carrying my AR at work. I just bought a flat top Bushmaster M4 with a collapsible stock. Right now the rifle has no sights at all just the rail system.

I need some opinions on how to set this thing up. Im tempted to put a scope on it but dont really think thats practical for every day LE use. I have looked at some sights and I like the ACOG but cant spend that kind of money. I dont want to spend more than $400 on optics. I looked at the eotech sights but they are big, bulky and look like somthing out of the movie starship troopers.
Any opinions would be great. thanks
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 2:19:46 PM EDT
IMHO, for LEO work, the detachable carry handle sight works just fine. Here's my reasoning (don't flame me, I'm just a lowly civvy ): most of the time when you pull the AR instead of your sidearm, you are facing down only 1 or 2 tangos, and most likely, you are using the AR as a "this is so going to fuck you up if you don't comply in about 2 seconds" kind of a tool instead of trying to put down a half dozen enemy soldiers. Also, the ACOG is just steep as hell, and probably backordered into the next decade. The carry handle sight can easily make COM shots out to a long way (as you probably already know) and is darn reliable.

For LEO duty use, I would get a good sling (CQB Solutions, Troy Industries, etc) and make sure it retains the weapon well. Also, a weapon mounted light for it is also crucial (target ID, intimidation factor: see above, etc), and some way of holding a couple of extra mags is nice too. I like the dual mag pouches in the drop down format offered by CQB Solutions.

Link Posted: 9/20/2004 4:43:25 PM EDT
a3 flattop, aimpoint comp m2 ,sling and surefire flashlight.
too bad ya cant afford the acog, it is really an awesome optic. ta-31 with bac.
if your dept. wont let ya put the goodies on, then learn to shoot again with irons.
but at least a sling and rail mounted flashlight.imho.
i'm no operator, but a simple armchair commando.

Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:04:37 PM EDT
Just a civilian here too. I would seriously consider one of the many mount-able surefire lights that are available for the AR platform. The Trijicon night sights available from Bushmaster and others are great for low light scenarios too.

Lord forbid should you ever have to shoot someone in a low light situation. The subject of proper target acquisition could be one less point of contention for a prosecuting attorney. I would also make sure your trigger is not set too light. Just more food for the attorneys in a wrongfull death lawsuit.


Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:18:08 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies guys, any one else?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:27:54 AM EDT
i'd go with an eotech/aimpoint and a good non flip up buis. when your expensive optic breaks, you just transiton to irons, but until then, you've got something a lot faster.

if your duty light has a tail cap button, you might be able to get away with just holding the light under the handguard and pushing back against the mag well. never tried this in the field, but seems to work around the house.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:04:56 AM EDT
Ideal LEO setup for me...on a slight budget...

YHM 2 peice railed forearm with vertical foregrip and some sort of surefire setup. Since you're an LEO, spend the extra money to get one thats will hold up to anything, dont trust a G2/shock isolated bezel to do the job. Works fine for my purposes, but if I were an LEO/when I become one, I'll spend the extra dough to make sure I have the best stuff out there to keep not only myself safe, but everyone around me as well.

Pick up a used ML2, a LaRue M68 mount, and a Larue BUIS.

Since your life will be on the line, dont skimp on quality. For your purposes, YHM rails will do just as well as anything else, but aside from that, there are no exceptions. The light/rail/foregrip in my opinion is a MUST. Red dot and BUIS can come later if you want, a carry handle will do you just fine for now.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:41:34 AM EDT
A full out rail system is a waste of money IMHO. You're looking at at least $100, up to $300 if you want a high-quality ARMS. Especially for law enforcement, what I call the "snag factor" is way too high on any quad-rail system. A light's a good idea because you have to ID your target first although on a budget, a Surefire probably isn't the way to go. ITI and Streamlight have teamed up to make the M3 and M3X lights. You can pick those up for $100 and $150 respectivly and mount them on a $20 bolt-on rail. The cheapest Surefire that'd I'd recommend mounting on an AR (M2 Millenium) goes for about $160 and that's without a rail or a mount.

If you go with optics, BUIS are a must. The truth of the matter is, you can pick up a nice set of flip up BUIS (front and rear) for around $200. If you find that the a fixed front sight doesn't annoy you when looking through the optics, then you're down to $120 or so for the rear sights. A carry handle alone will run around $130 and installing one will make putting optics on a pain. EOTechs are not big and bulky. I've held one and got a chance to look through it on a really bright Las Vegas day. I could still see the image without a problem. Compared to red dots which require rails and sometimes a mounting platform, the EOTech with the N-cell batteries is probably one of the smallest optical sighting systems you can find.

Don't forget a sling too!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:17:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:57:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 1:04:05 PM EDT by USCG_Always_Ready]
Im no LEO either but my next build on a budget will be.

YHM rails .. around 115 bucks

EOtech 551... I live in America.. Plenty of N-cell batts for me and 350 hours runtime should be good.. info from cmmg website. 330 bucks

Maybee the larue eotech mount.. but not necessary.. 115 bucks

ARMs 40L or YHM flip up sight... Arms .. 110 .. YHM 80

I put the ACE colapsable stock on ( meat clever ) only because its built like a tank.. but your 6 postion stock is fine. 150 bucks

Going to try out the OP-6 light from g&r tactical 185
Tango Down grip.. 60

Plus you should have something to carry your mags in should SHTF and need to get alot of lead out in a hurry.. so I got a Weesatch.. plus its a plate carrier for those close encounters.. 165 without the plates of course.

Extra mags.. about 15 bucks a shot now.. cmmg website.

And take some good clases to get some CQB training... plus thats alot of fun... 150 bucks.. priceless...

Hope that helps.


Edited to add.... Oh yea... and welcome to the site and congrats on your purchase.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:04:13 PM EDT
Troy, what kind of buttstock is that?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:33:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 3:34:56 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:49:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 3:49:31 PM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By Kingcobra:
Thanks for the replies guys, any one else?

Get a back up iron sight (BUIS) and get qual'd with that first. I am guessing that you have a standard front sight, and no carry handle? After you are on a little longer, and you get some OT gigs set up, or some court time starts coming your way, then look at an optic. The M68/Aimpoint and the Eotech are both used by the military, and both work well for LE work.

I've carried a standard carbine with the Carry Handle as my sight system, I eventually moved to a BUIS, and then to a Eotech. Start basic, get qualified with what you have, then see what the range Sgt will allow you to carry for your department.

I still use this carbine when I am teaching classes, and it still works quite well.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:51:12 PM EDT
I used to carry this one for patrol....

Then moved to this....

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 3:55:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 3:58:23 PM EDT by nhsport]
I also am just a civi.
Start with a standard carry handle,you more than likely can borrow one from one of your fellow ar toteing LEOs
This will give you a great gun that will work right now.If you are a LEO that only seems right.After all even a plain jane rifle works way better than a pistol. (when you need a rifle)
See what is working for your fellow LEOs and try to get to the range to try them all out,a carbine course,Quallifying course or even a 3 gun type of IPSAC match might shed some light on what works for you. Save your cash untill you know what you want in the way of add ons.Stuff you buy because it looks cool but you end up not useing is wasted cash.
A quick guess is you will want some type of cary sling before you spend on lights and optics.I am not a LEO but have shot competition to know 'PRACTICE WITH WHAT YOU CARRY" is good advise

Oh Yeah---Welcome!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 1:48:02 AM EDT
Troy, I like your set up. You mind if I ask how much, and where to find some of those pieces?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 12:32:58 PM EDT
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