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Link Posted: 8/5/2004 8:33:07 AM EST
Down the road I want to get a railed forend for my M4-gery carbine... Right now I have the regular two pieces handguards. My question is:

Which is better... the two piece RAS systems or would I be better off just spending the extra  money and getting a free floater?

I should mention I am also considering taking off the sight tower for a railed gas block... I think that might also dictate what I get as I'm pretty sure doing that would mean I would have to get a floater.

Thanks guys.

Also, I didn't see any changes in the chart but was wondering if anyone was working on a comparison for the inside/outside diameters of the various RAS/RIS systems. I'd like to add some textured Magpul panels to it when I get one, but I'd alos like to keep it as slim as possible.
Link Posted: 8/5/2004 12:37:55 PM EST

Which is better... the two piece RAS systems or would I be better off just spending the extra money and getting a free floater?


I vote free float. With any standard hand guard, the force applied to the handguard is also applied to the barrel. So, if you use a sling to steady your shot, the force used to pull the rifle into your body will torque the barrel. This is true whether your sling is mounted to the forearm or the front sight. If you use a "sling thing" mounted to a free float system you can pull on that sucker has hard as you want and not move the barrel.
If you don't use a sling like that, (I don't. I have a single point sling.) It still applies if you use a rest or a bipod. You may exert some force on the forearm that puts force on the barrel. With a FF system this won't happen.
Also, you might want to mount optics on the rail. If you ever want to add NV behind a red dot or holo sight, you can't hold zero. Or, like me, you might like the sight as far forward as possible. I mount my EOTech on the hand guard. Mounting your sight as far forward as possible has many advantages that have  been covered in many threads before.
There are too many reasons why a FF sys is better than a standard railed hand guard to buy the standard based only on price.
To modify Troy's sig line...
"Go Free Float or Go Home!"


So GG&G and LaRue are both good products?

Yes, they are good products. HOWEVER, the LaRue is brand spanking new and does not have a lot of feedback yet. Grant at GandRTactical has the only one that I know of. He sold through his first batch and we should be getting feedback soon. With that said, LaRue has a good rep and I doubt they made a POS forearm.
I have the GG&G  and I love it. I have yet to hear anything bad about the product, although some dealers don't like working with the company.
Both of these rail systems are considered mid level for quality (IMHO) and that is reflected in the price.
There is a reason that Daniel Defense, Knights and ARMS cost what they do. The Troy Ind. and PRI systems have gotten really good reveiws too.
And back to YHM, they are a good product for the money as well. They make the RRA quad rail and I am sure some others. Even though this is to the lower end of the price / quality range, it isn't a POS rail.
The only thing a don't recommend are the plastic rail systems. (YMMV)
This is what I love about AR's! You can truly customize it anyway you want. If you want to save a little on a hand guard and spend that money on optics, you can. If you want a differnt stock or front sight, go get it. Hell, you can call CAV and get different colors if you want!



Link Posted: 8/5/2004 11:20:23 PM EST
Thank you greatly for the reply and the help.

Sammy
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:29:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By EmanP:
Yes it's level. Did I miss it or is there a weight for the new Troy rail yet?



I've also been tracking the weights of the forarms (Heck I track the weights of ALL AR assemblies and accessories in a spreadsheet).

Here they are:

Troy MRF-C (Carbine)  13.0oz
Troy MRF-MX (Mid Length) 17.5oz
Troy MRF-R (Rifle) 20.5oz

Weights are 'installed weights' and include 2oz for the barrel nut.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 4:59:53 PM EST
Les Bear just came out w/ a rail system. I think I read 7 oz ?
just  my .02
He makes a geat product.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 5:45:14 PM EST
Has this already been addressed in a big comparison chart? A listo f the various diameters of the railed forends? I'm looking to put the Mag Pul covers on mine and I don't want to have this huge thing that I can't even wrap my fingers around by the time they're installed... I think I read that the Daniel Defense ones are the smallest inside/outside diameter .
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:18:55 PM EST
Anybody add the LaRue FF'ers in there yet?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:22:23 AM EST
This is my first post, and I know it is an odd place to start.  That being said, I will commence by jumping into the middle of this discusion.

What about floaters from RRA.  Are those manufactured in house or are they simply 3rd partied out to other companies like those already listed?

See ya around the forum guys!
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 10:19:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By grooVe:
What about floaters from RRA.  Are those manufactured in house or are they simply 3rd partied out to other companies like those already listed?



IIRC they are YHM products
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:40:27 AM EST
I got back from Gunsite 223 today, and I just thought I'd throw my experiences from class in:

1. SIR 59m was too heavy to hold at Ready 10 minutes into class. Rifle went back into the car, and stayed there for the rest of the week.

2. The YHM 2 piece carbine rail takes the Tango Down grip without issues on the bottom rail. It also held up the whole week without any issues.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 11:50:19 PM EST

The only two manufacturers I know of where all four rails meet Picatinny specs for the 1913 rails are KAC and Larue. Daniel Defense has the top and bottom rail to spec; but the side rails have les depth than spec (in order to get that oval profile).


Anyone know if the Troy rail (all four rails) are mil-spec?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:15:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By SRFL:
Anyone know if the Troy rail (all four rails) are mil-spec?


Yes all 4 are to the spec.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:28:30 PM EST
anyone seen the new Armalite Alostyr?

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/ALOSTYR.htm
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:10:18 PM EST
I'll hold out for a titanium model  Does anyone make one yet?  I'm sure somebody would buy them.  I personally think its kind of ridiculous to worry about a few ounces when your hanging all the doo dads on them anyways, you could save the money and buy a bowflex and carry heavier guns.  Really though the extra weight would make perceived recoil even less noticable.  
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 10:12:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By RELTOR:
I'll hold out for a titanium model  Does anyone make one yet? .  



Yes - see Hawkeye's recent post on it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:41:26 PM EST
I have looked through this list, and am not sure if I've missed it, but what info is available on the YHM-9803?(20" rifle length 2 pc. unit)  Bushmaster website shows info on it as a new product, and I asked a vendor about it, but what kind of specs exist for it.  What kind of reviews is it getting?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 12:41:20 AM EST
SBR project, Troy MRF-C, Ameetech Predator P-4, or ARMS SIR?? I'd like a continuous rail(hence the last two)but hear that the Troy is close enough to mount optics etc. in any position on the rail.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:27:12 PM EST
Just weighed my new Troy MRF-CX on the postal scale.  

It is 13.5 oz. on the nose.  

Very nice finish and machine work.  

The extended side rails should make adding a light easier.  
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:29:01 PM EST
Some more detailed weight info on the PRI tubes, thanks to M700Police (received info in an email from PRI).


Originally Posted By M700Police:
PRI tube weights courtesy of PRI:

PRI rifle free float fore with all rails, steel nut 1.19Lbs (19.04 oz.)
PRI free float forearm with steel nut, no rails .855 lb. (13.68 oz.)
PRI rifle free float forearm with aluminum nut, no rails .700 lb. (11.20 oz.)
PRI rifle length, all rails and aluminum nut 1.015 lbs. (16.2 oz.)
PRI carbine length, all rails and steel nut .95 lbs (15.2 oz)
PRI Intermediate forearm with rails 1.010lb. Steel nut(16.2 oz.)
PRI Intermediate Forearm with Rails and High strength Aluminum nut .865lb. (13.8 oz.)


Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:07:12 AM EST
I was under the understanding that Titanium was heavier than Aluminum?
Only possibility is that with its added strength, it could be thinner, which would make it weigh less overall.
To me, the KAC MRE and the Troy MRF-CX look like real winners to me.
Does anyone even have the KAC MRE in stock?

-Steve
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:32:16 PM EST
Getting the YMH LIGHTWEIGHT 4RAIL FREE FLOAT. Can anyboydy tell me anything about it. is goodbuy for $89.98 installed on my LMT upper.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:51:41 PM EST
btt
Link Posted: 11/7/2004 10:42:56 AM EST
Does anyone know anything about the Young Manufacturing forend?  Here's a pic from M1S's site:



From this pic it doesn't look as tall as a Predator, and may be better for co-witness mounting.  However, I can't find info anywhere.

At under $200, it may be too good to be true... ?
Link Posted: 11/13/2004 12:48:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/13/2004 6:42:52 AM EST by NickDrak]
I recieved my LaRue 7.0 two weeks ago from LaRue. It is simple to install (with the correct tools) and is the most secure design I have seen. They designed a small bracket which
keeps the tube from spinning, which is a concern with other systems that dont mount onto the recievers top rail like the SIR. The LaRue is much lighter than the SIR though,
I used to have a SIR, but replaced it with the LaRue 7.0.



In my opinion, the LaRue is the best out there. Mine was $245 directly from LaRue.

Just got word from Mark LaRue that their 9.0 handguards for Mid-length set-ups will be available starting next week. Most dealers probably wont have them for a couple of
weeks, so if you want one ASAP, I suggest calling LaRue directly and putting in a order. Great people to deal with!

Give 'em a call @ 512.259.1585

And no, I dont work for LaRue!!!
Link Posted: 11/16/2004 7:07:51 PM EST
NickDrak, did you get a chance to weigh your 7.0? I noticed that there are no weight data for Larue's stuff in the chart on page 1.
Link Posted: 11/16/2004 8:10:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By chiz45:
NickDrak, did you get a chance to weigh your 7.0? I noticed that there are no weight data for Larue's stuff in the chart on page 1.



Negative. I could weight the entire upper and post the numbers.
Link Posted: 11/20/2004 6:45:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2004 8:05:22 PM EST by JTinIN]

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
I recieved my LaRue 7.0 two weeks ago from LaRue. It is simple to install (with the correct tools) and is the most secure design I have seen. They designed a small bracket which
keeps the tube from spinning,  ..... snip - jt ....
In my opinion, the LaRue is the best out there. Mine was $245 directly from LaRue.
..... snip .....



Looking at rifle lenght rail handguards and have not seen any of the LaRue, since you like yours in the M4 lenght was wondering if you could point out plus or minus compared to a reference, the Knights free floating RAS.   P.S. Off line is find also.

Edited to Add:  Besides the YH and KAC rail rifle lenght forends, do not see many around here in person.  Appreciate any recommendations of "must" check manufacture with postive and negative features (with the KAC FF RAS being a good base line for me).
Link Posted: 11/21/2004 1:42:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By JTinIN:
Looking at rifle lenght rail handguards and have not seen any of the LaRue, since you like yours in the M4 lenght was wondering if you could point out plus or minus compared to a reference, the Knights free floating RAS.   P.S. Off line is find also.

Edited to Add:  Besides the YH and KAC rail rifle lenght forends, do not see many around here in person.  Appreciate any recommendations of "must" check manufacture with postive and negative features (with the KAC FF RAS being a good base line for me).



JTinIN,
   I cant find any negatives when comparing any of the set-ups that you mention. I have owned/installed: LaRue, Knights, and ARMS S.I.R. systems, and the LaRue (in my opinion) is the best quality of the bunch. I have also handled Daniel defense which seem very HQ also. The LaRue has the benefit of the anti-spin device, and is the least expensive of the set-ups I have owned (mentioned above). The LaRue's "LIVE FREE OR DIE" logo is a big + also.

Hope this helps
Link Posted: 11/21/2004 9:21:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2004 5:56:02 PM EST by JTinIN]

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
..... snip ....
JTinIN,
   I cant find any negatives when comparing any of the set-ups that you mention. I have owned/installed: LaRue, Knights, and ARMS S.I.R. systems, and the LaRue (in my opinion) is the best quality of the bunch. I have also handled Daniel defense which seem very HQ also. The LaRue has the benefit of the anti-spin device, and is the least expensive of the set-ups I have owned (mentioned above). The LaRue's "LIVE FREE OR DIE" logo is a big + also.

Hope this helps



Thanks for the feed back, When you get into high end products, start to find instead of negatives, different solutions for the similar problems, with a slightly different take on the final system.

As an example, another option pointed out to me is the PRI forend, which is a different direction, but also interesting .

Link Posted: 11/22/2004 8:16:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2004 8:19:19 PM EST by pathfinder74]
Got a couple questions...

1.) Is there a semi-accurate price listing of (carbine 7.0) RAS FF forearms? I was looking at several of the sites and some didn't seem to list the prices, or at least list them in the obvious place; where the product is "showcased".

2.) I was checking out the Troy Ind. MRF-C and while I am not a fan of RAS systems where the rails are mounted on a separate tube (as this appears to be on their website, kind of like PRI tubes) vs. the entire handguard being on piece (like the DD or KAC), I love how the top rail appears to run almost flush to the (flattop) receiver rail.

PRI

Troy Ind.


Are there any one piece RAS systems that also do this? I'm not talking about the ones like the ARMS SIRS where you are essentially adding an additional rail on top of your receiver rail.

I'm leaning toward the Daniel Defense M4Rail 7.0, Larue Tactical or the KAC




Link Posted: 11/22/2004 8:52:54 PM EST
Linking in another thread on the subject... just to keep a little continuity.

Link
Link Posted: 11/23/2004 3:51:57 AM EST
Larue 7.0

11.50 oz on a USPS digital scale
Link Posted: 11/23/2004 4:34:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2004 4:39:16 AM EST by NickDrak]
pathfinder74,

I believe that the Troy is only three pieces (including the bottom clamp) with the rails being machined into the two seperate handguards (top & bottom).  There are some good pics of the Troy set-up on: www.militarymorons.com Click on "site map" and then click on "weapons page 1" and scroll down to the pics of the Troy.
Link Posted: 11/23/2004 3:25:29 PM EST
Man, that link is awesome.... some pretty cool reviews of stuff in there. Does that guy actually own all that shit?
Link Posted: 11/23/2004 8:14:20 PM EST
I have no idea, just stumbled upon it. That Troy f/h looks pretty tuff also.
Link Posted: 11/23/2004 8:48:26 PM EST
What I'd really like, although I'm definitely not willing to pay the big bucks for it, is the LMT monolithic rail system. That thing seems pretty sweet. Way over my price range for a a upper receiver though. For the cost of that you could buy a complete rifle.

I'm leaning toward the Troy now because it seems to be what I'm looking for and the price is nicer than the Daniel Defense. Plus I love how it sits pretty much flush with the receiver.

This will definitely be my next purchase... just a matter of time and money. Then it's on to other expensive things like lights and VFG's... expensive because I have my eye on the Surefire m900...
Link Posted: 11/30/2004 10:48:05 AM EST
what about TDI??? anyone see this!
How does it attach?

www.botachtactical.com/tdix6.html
Link Posted: 11/30/2004 6:58:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By swatbwana:
what about TDI??? anyone see this!
How does it attach?

www.botachtactical.com/tdix6.html



Doesn't seem to work... got another link?
Link Posted: 11/30/2004 7:21:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By swatbwana:
what about TDI??? anyone see this!
How does it attach?

www.botachtactical.com/tdix6.html



It mounts by clamping onto the FSB. Kinda limits your options
Link Posted: 11/30/2004 8:17:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2004 8:21:12 PM EST by swatbwana]
I saw that, but by the shape of the rear portion it also appears to clamp over either the barrel nut or delta ring???Edited to add  it looks by the bottom picture that it is the exact opposite of a FF tue , putting the entire weight of the fore end on teh front sight tower.. uggggh they HAVE run out of new ideas.
No wonder it's on DEEP disount.


here
Link Posted: 12/2/2004 10:44:51 AM EST
Larue 12.0

16.50 oz. on a USPS digital scale.
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 9:23:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By sovereign:
Larue 12.0

16.50 oz. on a USPS digital scale.



 This looks like Armalite mounting design. Will the fore end mount to existing Armalite nut?
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 4:40:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 4:42:34 PM EST by rifleduck]
Please guys help me out with the brand and model on this handguards / RIS system
instead of looking at the girl, please I would love to have it installed on my AR.

Thanks

DUCK


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/rifleduck/BP1a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/rifleduck/BP2.jpg
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 3:32:16 PM EST
Im thinking of a Danials 7.0 and a PRI gasblock/front flip sight. Is there a provision on the Danials FF for a sling mount or will I have to go with a YHM front sight with the sling mount????  
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 4:56:57 PM EST
You need a rail-mounted sling mount.  They are available from GG&G, KAC, YHM and others.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:36:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 6:24:06 PM EST by wyv3rn]
Larue 9.0 is 13.2oz complete as per GandR.

Also here are some corrections for the chart:

-The Troy MRF-MX is 17.5oz (as per Forest) installed, the MRF-CX is 15.5oz installed (13.5oz + 2oz for barrel nut only).
-KAC FF RAS 2 is 11.3oz (13.8oz is the installed weight) as per coldblue.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 9:29:10 PM EST





Link Posted: 1/14/2005 11:33:05 AM EST
I have heard that the new LaRues have a different internal shape that will only fit over their
new gas block. I already have a low profile gas block and am wondering if I have to purchase a LaRue gas block to install a 12.0 on a 16" barrel?

Thanks, Crizz
Link Posted: 1/15/2005 9:11:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2005 9:25:42 PM EST by JTinIN]
Been an interesting thread, Thanks!

Fournd a few of the KAC FF RAS for the A4 upper at the local show and before letting a KAC FF follow me home, was wondering on comments about some of you guys liking the LaRue 12 a little better. ... interested (on line or off) on the reasons besides price and the anti spin clipe (price the Larue is $100 less, antispin clip is only on the Larue ) as if these might not be enough by themself ....

Found the infomation on Mounting LaRue 12 Forend

Other option is the Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) Monolithic Rail Platform, which if could have gotten a 20" barrel and another in 7.62 x 39 or 6.8mm ... which have been gotten long ago just for the easy change barrel option.
Link Posted: 1/19/2005 12:29:12 AM EST
Hello.  This has been a great thread, but I have a question.  Are the diameters of all these forends pretty much the same, because I currently have an Olympic Arms FIRSH forend on my carbine, and I find the diameter wide enough to be uncomfortable.  I'd like a smaller diamter, but with the top rail extended to stay flat with the upper receiver.
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