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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 12/21/2003 9:52:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 9:54:22 PM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
This subject came up in another thread. If the AWB sunsets, will there be a rush of folks adding a bayonet lug equipped front sight? Or do you even care? I believe many want one because they are not currently allowed, but if they were allowed, most wouldn't care/bother. Are bayonets still useful?
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 9:58:14 PM EDT
wouldnt care, but I want my barrel threads, FS, and collapsible stock
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:01:34 PM EDT
I'm not really worried about the bayo lug as much as a FH and collapsible stock and new 30 rd mags and cheaper betas. I may add one down the road, just in case they ever get banned again but...its not at the top of my list.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:06:07 PM EDT
That's what I suspect most would say. Not many serial bayonettings out there... they just aren't very useful items. Good call adding that into the AWB. America is safer. [;)] I'm curious if there are folks who really like them or feel they have their place, still.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:12:40 PM EDT
Bayonet for what????
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:20:23 PM EDT
I want one just to piss off the idiots that say I shouldn't have one! Plus it keep my short barrel in the rack, otherwise it wouldn't fit.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:27:33 PM EDT
Bayonets are dangerous. You could put an eye out.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:31:37 PM EDT
Same here. The only reason I want one is to be contrary. Flash hiders and collapsable stocks, on the other hand...
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:33:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 10:42:18 PM EDT by Kisara]
I have a Mossberg 590 that has one from the factory, for AR bayonets. But my Benelli doesn't have a lug. Guess which one I'd pick in a firefight... PS leisure shoot I love your avatar..
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:37:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kisara: I have a Mossberg 590 that has one from the factory, for AR bayonets. But my Benelli doesn't have a lug. Guess which one I'd pick in a firefight...
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The Benelli? [;)]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:59:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kisara: PS leisure shoot I love your avatar..
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Thanks. Kind of just happened. People associated the name with the game... It turns out to be a good way to find out how old people are. Under 30 probably have no idea.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 11:38:39 PM EDT
I want the lug back, if only so they look like they’re supposed to.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 12:48:51 AM EDT
I have a preban and have no bayo lug anyway. Leisure, I resent that comment I am not 30 yet but I still know that game lol!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 12:57:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Originally Posted By Kisara: PS leisure shoot I love your avatar..
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Thanks. Kind of just happened. People associated the name with the game... It turns out to be a good way to find out how old people are. Under 30 probably have no idea.
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I remember Vesion 1 & 2. I used to play them on my IBM PCJr back in the mid 80's.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:53:29 AM EDT
Bayo and threaded will be on mine 14 Sept. Cheap mags will be bought. I never liked collapsibles until someone told me they were illegal.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:34:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pup-dawg: Bayonet for what????
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It's valuable for home defense as that is close quarters combat - if anything happens that precludes you from firing the needed shots at an intruder (malfunction, child in background, out of ammo) the bayonet gives you that last ditch option that no one should be without, as rudimentary as it may seem. Granted, it turns your AR15 into a medieval weapon, but at close range it can be just as effective.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:38:59 AM EDT
Do you want a bayonet lug if AWB sunsets? No, but I want to be able to have seven lugs all over the rifle, if I so choose, without some asshat with a badge being able to break my beans if it suits him.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:01:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 6:03:30 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By MisterSkippy: Do you want a bayonet lug if AWB sunsets? No, but I want to be able to have seven lugs all over the rifle, if I so choose, without some asshat with a badge being able to break my beans if it suits him.
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That brings up something I never thought of! Why couldn't you take 3 of those clamp on type bayonet lugs, and space them apart, with the lugs on the sides and top as well as bottom, and have 4 bayonets mounted on both sides, top and bottom? Then you could take a picture and send it Diane Feinstein. The QUAD-bayonet evil assault rifle. I may have to try this on my preban.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:47:54 AM EDT
I want a bayo lug just because they can help your rifle look mean!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:15:32 AM EDT
As far as I know the only (US) military application for using a bayonet is when handling POWs. If your weapon malfunctions at a critical moment the best thing for you to have is a handgun, not a bayonet. Besides if your close enough to bayonet someone your close enough to bash them in the face with butt of your rifle if need be. My Mosin Nagant came with a bayonet lug and a steel plate on the butt(very painful), 2 features I have no use for.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:17:32 AM EDT
Yes, I want the lug, along with everything else that the AWB took away. If the military and law enforcement can have those items, why can't law abiding citizens.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:00:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 8:04:36 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: As far as I know the only (US) military application for using a bayonet is when handling POWs. If your weapon malfunctions at a critical moment the best thing for you to have is a handgun, not a bayonet. Besides if your close enough to bayonet someone your close enough to bash them in the face with butt of your rifle if need be. My Mosin Nagant came with a bayonet lug and a steel plate on the butt(very painful), 2 features I have no use for.
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In the case of an intruder in the middle of the night, I will be grabbing only one weapon, and that will be my AR w/surefire tac light. (Although on second thought you are probably correct in that it would take more time to fix a bayonet than to draw a pistol). Secondly, though, I can assure you than unless the doctrine has changed since I was in (Honorable discharge, 1990) the bayonet is still taught as an offensive weapon. As a graduate of the Fort Benning bayonet assault course, I can tell you that it is taught to be used in violent assault for close quarters combat (granted, mostly for morale purposes). But there is evidence that bayonet assault is still very effective in modern combat as late as the Korean War at Hill 180 by the 27th Infantry under command of Captain Millet where it was used to devastating effect:
On February 7, 1951, Millett led his men up Hill 180 as part of Operation Punch. Throwing grenades, turning back to call for more firepower when he saw the ground ahead crawling with Chinese, he seemed constantly upright and exposed standing under fire, urging the others on. At the crest he took shrapnel from a grenade. The men saw him silhouetted on the skyline and heard him now, shouting "Use grenades and cold steel!" That day the bayonet was used liberally. Some say it was the most complete bayonet charge by American troops since the Civil War. Of 47 enemy dead, 18 had been killed by the bayonet. For his courage and leadership in the action, Captain Millett was awarded the Medal of Honor. And atop Hill 180, like their own special medal to their new commander, the men left a bayonet stuck in a crack in a rock holding a sign which read, "Compliments of Easy Company."
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Source: [url]http://www.infantry.army.mil/museum/inside_tour/photo_tour/17_case23.htm[/url] I'll keep my bayonet lug, thank you!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:20:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 8:24:42 AM EDT by LoginName]
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but unless the person installs one of the set-screw clamp-on type of lugs it's not that simple a task. Adding a standard sight tower lug isn't feasible because the sight tower is fitted at the factory to each individual barrel. I assume it's to align the sight post correctly and/or align the gas port correctly. Surprisingly though, if one of the more extreme AWB bills does pass, bayonet lugs are alowed. (I guess the antis got tired of hearing the old drive-by bayonetting jokes).
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:28:54 AM EDT
As the good Dr posted previously, the bayonet is a great psychological booster. Above the din of battle comes the cry: "FIX BAYONETS!" This means it's time to get down and dirty. I spose us infantry types can only relate. Although one of my pre-ban carbines will lose it's bayo lug (front sight is being replaced with a PRI flip-up front sight), I will purchase a 'stock' A2 upper with all the trimmings.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:38:12 AM EDT
Hey didn't the Marines get into a nasty bayonet fight in Iraq with some foreign arab volunteers? Plus, the Corps just issued that new bayonet, so I'll have to have some place to mount it. Actually, I already do, but if you don't there is a nice F.U. factor involved in having one.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:49:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Originally Posted By Kisara: PS leisure shoot I love your avatar..
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Thanks. Kind of just happened. People associated the name with the game... It turns out to be a good way to find out how old people are. Under 30 probably have no idea.
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Might want to bump that up a bit. I am 28 and played all those games YEARS ago.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:19:24 AM EDT
Nah, I've already got 4, but will need another lower to complete No. 4.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:33:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR: It's valuable for home defense as that is close quarters combat - if anything happens that precludes you from firing the needed shots at an intruder (malfunction, child in background, out of ammo) the bayonet gives you that last ditch option that no one should be without, as rudimentary as it may seem. Granted, it turns your AR15 into a medieval weapon, but at close range it can be just as effective.
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You're serious? Theres this thing called "Civil Litigation" that will eat you alive. Not to mention, I can almost GUARANTEE you that you WILL be charged with homicide if you bayonet the 19 year old punk kid who used to be the high school track star until he turned into a crack head and started stealing for money. I cant even imagine the field day the media would have with this one. You'd have been better trying to make the argument why the bayonet is still viable for the military. Im sorry, but justifying its use for civilian home defence is asinine to the extreme.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 11:30:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 11:32:31 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By _DR: It's valuable for home defense as that is close quarters combat - if anything happens that precludes you from firing the needed shots at an intruder (malfunction, child in background, out of ammo) the bayonet gives you that last ditch option that no one should be without, as rudimentary as it may seem. Granted, it turns your AR15 into a medieval weapon, but at close range it can be just as effective.
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You're serious? Theres this thing called "Civil Litigation" that will eat you alive. Not to mention, I can almost GUARANTEE you that you WILL be charged with homicide if you bayonet the 19 year old punk kid who used to be the high school track star until he turned into a crack head and started stealing for money. I cant even imagine the field day the media would have with this one. You'd have been better trying to make the argument why the bayonet is still viable for the military. Im sorry, but justifying its use for civilian home defence is asinine to the extreme.
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OK, I see your argument Lumpy, but tell me how using a bayonet for home defense is different from using a knife? There have been many historic cases of Grand Jury No-Bills in the State of Texas over the years for self defense against an intruder in the home with a knife. The common factor for avoiding litigation is that you don't leave the intruder alive. A bayonet thrust to the carotid and a few minutes to call 911 will take care of any litigation by the intruder. There are laws against booby traps, etc, but using a deadly weapon such as a knife for defense in your own home is considered a no-bill situation, unless there are extenuating circumstances. In Texas, if it is at night, you will likely be no-billed even if the intruder is not armed. So explain to me how a bayonet is different than a knife for self defense?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 11:40:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR: A bayonet thrust to the carotid and a few minutes to call 911 will take care of any litigation by the intruder.
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So a guy breaks into your house and cut his throat and bleed him out on your living room floor...for the simple stupid act of breaking in. Does he at least get to be a threat before you go Rambo on him? Seriously, you might want to learn about civil liability. So he dies. His parents will sue and so will the girl who had his illegitimate baby.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 11:56:08 AM EDT
I want a bayo lug!!! I know it's cheesy but I think they would intimidate the hell out of me if I was a badguy. What sizes of barrels can I use a bayo on?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 11:59:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 12:10:46 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By _DR: A bayonet thrust to the carotid and a few minutes to call 911 will take care of any litigation by the intruder.
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So a guy breaks into your house and cut his throat and bleed him out on your living room floor...for the simple stupid act of breaking in. Does he at least get to be a threat before you go Rambo on him? Seriously, you might want to learn about civil liability. So he dies. His parents will sue and so will the girl who had his illegitimate baby.
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The Texas penal code is quite clear on this. I can kill a burglar even if he just stealing my VCR. I WILL kill an intruder if my family is in the house at the time. A civil suit would be ill advised, as I would be well within my rights by state law using a knife, gun, bayonet or even a brick. While I will identify the intruder and not shoot or stab blindly, if I determine he does not belong in my home, and it is night time, he is a dead man. Texas is not Massachusetts or California. You won't read about many lawsuits of this type in Texas where the intruder was killed. I have both researched it and spoken with my attorney about it. I know the local CLEO and he is in agreement with me on this, to the extent that DEADLY force is used. Here is what the Texas penal code says; note that I am empowered to use DEADLY force even to protect simple property in Texas. The presence of nighttime gives a great deal of leeway in Texas law, as you may note: § 9.42. Deadly Force to Protect Property A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and (3) he reasonably believes that: (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. SOURCE:[url]http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0000900.html#pe009.9.31[/url]
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 12:52:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: As far as I know the only (US) military application for using a bayonet is when handling POWs. If your weapon malfunctions at a critical moment the best thing for you to have is a handgun, not a bayonet. Besides if your close enough to bayonet someone your close enough to bash them in the face with butt of your rifle if need be. My Mosin Nagant came with a bayonet lug and a steel plate on the butt(very painful), 2 features I have no use for.
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crowed control: I seen where someone posted a pic of troops in Iraq hold back a Mob of protester's there bayonets were attached!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:27:18 PM EDT
A knife in the hand is FAR more effective than a stupid bayonette on an M4.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:58:08 PM EDT
The only thing that will change on my post ban, is to get rid of the Gogogadgets.net vertical grip for the regular grip. With my vertical grip i can keep my threaded barrel.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:01:19 PM EDT
I want a Flash Surpressor and telestock more than anything. I might buy a carbine upper and tele stockand change it on Sept 14th.
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