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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/17/2003 5:58:31 AM EDT
I've narrowed my list of upper possibilities to Kuehl or KKF. Drawing from experience from those lucky enough to own either a Kuehl or a KKF .22lr upper could you please describe the accuracy. I'm primarily interested in the M4 version i.e. short barrel (14.5-16"). I'm sure either way I go will be great.

Link Posted: 7/17/2003 7:10:24 AM EDT
I have owned both. Both were M4 profiles. Kurt's used the full Ciener conversion unit and Keuhls has an integral chamber and doesn't use the ciener chamber adapter. I liked them both. Both run great. If I HAD to pick one for better accuracy, I think Kurt's had a slight edge. However, a buddy's 20" SS Keuhl 22RF is quite impressive. I'm a big fan of KKF and while i have no experience with the 20" units Kurt makes, I am sure they would also be tack-drivers. Between my shooting buddy and myself, we have owned dedicated 22RF AR15 style uppers from KKF(M4 & FF 16"), Keuhl (M4 & 20" FF SS), Lietner-Wise (2, both M4), Fulton (16") and CZ (16"). The units from KKF and Keuhl are at the top of the pile.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 8:27:36 AM EDT
Thanks Duc... I guess I was kind of leaning toward the Kuehl due to the fact I can get a shorter overall lenght. Both are about the same price. However I like the KKF stuff too and haven't heard anything but glowing reviews of his stuff.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 8:39:56 AM EDT
I like that Keuhl's barrel looks shorter than it is. The built in chamber adapter lets the muzzle be close to the front sight post and still be a 16" long barrel. Mine is pre-ban and it is nice to be able to unscrew the flash suppressor if I needed to. The M4-22 barrel Kurt made for me was post-ban and had a fake a2 style muzzle device that covered the end of the barrel. The muzzle extended to the end of the fake A2. This made its length from muzzle to front sight post almost exactly the same as Keuhl's. You will not go wrong with either one of these.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:27:11 AM EDT
I was wondering if you had the barrels floated on those rifles? I'm likely going to add an arms 46 or 50 to mine. Once the barrel is floated I'm hoping for 1 MOA. (I'll likely use good ammo too.)
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:58:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2003 11:59:53 AM EDT by Dan0341]
I've never shot my Kuehl upper and seriously measured groups on paper (although it seems extremely accurate). So I'll let someone else comment on that. As far as fit, finish, and reliability - it is excellent! I could not be happier with it. Also, I like the fact that it does not use the chamber insert so the barrel looks shorter (more like the M4 length). I'm trying to think of something negative to say, but I can't. Rick Kuehl is also great to do business with. You can't go wrong by getting a Kuehl upper. Here's a pic of mine: Dan [img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/M16Commanchediagnol.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:12:22 PM EDT
Dan, Do you see tha shadow of the front sight with through the scope? Also, what distaces are you shooting? Ball park is fine.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:25:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2003 1:26:08 PM EDT by Dan0341]
The front sight does not show in the scope whatsoever. It's as if it doesn't exist. I just went outside and paced my distance. It's about forty yards. Since I live in an area where I can shoot on my property, I don't go to the range a whole lot. I usually shoot at small leaves (no setting up of targets and no cleanup). When I look at the leaves up close, the holes are grouping about one inch or one inch and one half. I'm not shooting for groups. I'm a plinker at heart. Dan
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:40:06 PM EDT
I hear you Dan. I'm looking for something to dispatch the occasional crow and maybe do some rabbit hunting with. I thouht the compact size would be nice for that. The problem becomes getting close enough to the crows to shoot. Those things have radar! In the field I don't think I have ever gotten much less than a 100 shot off. Personally I really wanted a .17HMR upper but to this point can't find one. Besides ammo is really hard to come by.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:57:49 PM EDT
There's an article on Kuehl's website from a magazine who tested one of his uppers. They tested one with eight different types of ammunition. The best group at 50 yards was .875 and the largest group was 2.25. Click on the link to check it out: [url]http://www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.com/6234_eprint.pdf[/url] Dan
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 2:36:51 PM EDT
Yea I saw that. Not overly impressive. If I were Rick I think I'd create some of my own groups, hopefully better, as a better testamonial. If you look at the KKF sight there is a nice group posted from a 16" upper owner. I suppose the ultimate test will be how I shoot it. I think once I float the barrel I should get better groups than reported in the article you cited with either set up.
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