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Posted: 12/26/2004 10:58:31 AM EDT
Does anyone have anything to say or any experience with DPMS's .308 AR's? I've noticed that most .308 AR's are considerably more expensive than their .223 counterparts, but DPMS prices there's at only around $900...Just wondering if there was a reason for this low price.

Thanks for any help

Mike
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 11:42:08 AM EDT
I do not own one yet, but my best friend bought one when the DPMS .308 first came out. He has the 24" LR target model and put on a Leupold 6.5-20X40mm scope. The gun shoots very well, as good as my other friends Armalite AR-10.

The 24" LR is really heavy, it is more of a bench rifle/ target rifle then a hunting rifle. The new DPMS 16" and 18" carbine are really nice and can be used for hunting.

The mags for the DPMS are the same for a SR25. And for a long time they were very expensive but now a 20 round mag is $59 instead of $125.

I think DPMS .308 is a well made rifle. The Armalite is nice too but for the price of a Armalite a guy can get a DPMS and a good scope.
I think I would get the 18" over the 24" because I would want to use the DPMS .308 for deer hunting.
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:04:50 PM EDT
The DPMS/Panther Arms .308 is less expensive in large part due to the fact that both it's upper and lower recievers are "CAST"....and castings are far less costly but designed dimensionally bulkier (to make up for the decreased inherent structural strength/integrity of the cast material vs forged material) hence also "heavier"...however...several of my FFL buds customers have purchased such and all are generally pleased with the rifles overall performance.

The Panther.308 was considered in my recent purchase of a BAR-10 as was Amalites AR-10 series.....withy the Panthers Cast recievers pricing in the $900 range...Armalites Fordged Uppers Only tipping right at $1,200 and the BAR-10's Cast Upper and Lower tilting the register at $1,400.

All reportedly perform well.....some are just lighter and stronger yet more costly.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2004 12:12:10 PM EDT by mimikamimi]
HUH? This is from their website.

Upper Receiver:
Thick walled, extruded from 6066-T6 aluminum
• Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
• Snag free design, smooth side look
• No dust cover
• No shell deflector
• No forward assist
• Right hand ejection
• Raised Picatinny rail for easy scope mounting

Lower Receiver:
Milled from a solid billet of 6061-T6 aluminum
• Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
• Standard A-15 trigger group
• Integral trigger guard
• Magazine release button

I own 1 in 18" and it is awesome.


Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:13:42 PM EDT
I just wrapped up a fairly extensive piece on the DPMS LR-308 for the February Issue of Small Arms Review Magazine. It is being mailed to readers as you read this.

In summary, I found it to be an excellent rifle, especially when topped with a nice piece of glass. If you can get hold of that issue of SAR it may be quite helpful.

Merry Christmas All.

Jeff W. Zimba
Production Manager
Small Arms Review Magazine

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:17:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
Armalites Fordged Uppers Only tipping right at $1,200...



What? Do you have any idea what cast vs. forged means?

Armalite uses forged upper and lower receivers. Period.
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:27:39 PM EDT
yep. I've got some experiene with the DPMS. Had a 24", too heavy to do anything with. Love my 16", and it's almost as accurate as the 24" was. (shown with my wife's M4gery)

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 1:25:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
The DPMS/Panther Arms .308 is less expensive in large part due to the fact that both it's upper and lower recievers are "CAST"....and castings are far less costly but designed dimensionally bulkier (to make up for the decreased inherent structural strength/integrity of the cast material vs forged material) hence also "heavier"...however...several of my FFL buds customers have purchased such and all are generally pleased with the rifles overall performance.

The Panther.308 was considered in my recent purchase of a BAR-10 as was Amalites AR-10 series.....withy the Panthers Cast recievers pricing in the $900 range...Armalites Fordged Uppers Only tipping right at $1,200 and the BAR-10's Cast Upper and Lower tilting the register at $1,400.

All reportedly perform well.....some are just lighter and stronger yet more costly.

L8R, Bill.



Uh, do you know anything about the DPMS line. There isnt a cast model among them. DPMS is less expensive because they make much of their own parts and dont contract out. Same deal with Olympic. When you dont help someone make a profit it translates to savings for your customers.

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 2:44:46 PM EDT
+1
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 8:49:52 PM EDT
Ya know what???...I apologize to you guys....I've been researching and absorbing so much info regarding the recent plethora of AR styled semi-auto .308 rifles that.....

a. I know I had a "Senior Moment" and mis-spoke in reagrds to the dpms/panther .308 as ya'll are right...it's recievers are not "cast"....but they are not "Forged" either...the upper is extruded and the lower is machinewd from billet...neither of which are as strong as "Forged"....but you're right...they aren't "cast" either and...

b. IMHO???...Armalite/Eagle are being sorta sneaky in the way that they advertise...as when it comes to discussing "Forgings"???...they always refer to their recievers in the "Plural Sense"....as though the lower and upper are the same unit...but if you noticed???....They'll always advertise "Forged Upper Recievers" but then say nothing about the manufacturing process of their lowers...and that coupled along with my visual inspection of an armalite AR-10 (at a local gun shop here in town prior to buying my BAR-10)....demonstrated to me what appeared to be a very bulky lower reciever that was very typical of being a "cast" part....so much so that I as a life long machinist autimatically assumed it was cast...and I could be wrong but...again...every search I preformed on the internet yielded the same elusive claims whereby Amalite/Eagle would tout only their upper recievers as actually being "Forged" but never make mention of the lower being forged unless it's in the sense taht they're speaking of their "recievers in general"...in which case it's like they'd like to allude to their lowers as being "Forged"...yet they will never come right out and say..

"Our lower Recievers Are Machined from Forgings"

but they many times brag that...

"Our upper recievers are machined from Forgings"

And forged or not???....from the example I saw of an armalite at my local dealer???..I'm very pleased that I ordered my new BAR-10....it's trimmed...lighter..and exhibits a higher level of build quality everywhere I look.....as compared to the Armalite AR-10 I saw at my local dealers...which left me less than impressed.

But I do know this....much of what we discuss and debate here is nothing more than frivilous symantics....and most of what I hear is Armalite guys being real happy....DPMS/Panther Guys being real happy, E10 Eagle Arms Guys being real happy and now..me....the BAR-10 guy...and yeah...I'm real happy so far.

Sorry about mis-speaking on the DPMS .308 and if such is the case...Armalites AR-10's lower reciever....

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 12:14:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 6:10:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can absolutely confirm that Armalite's AR10 receivers, both upper and lower, are machined from forgings. Armalite owns these forging dies. They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers. Armalite's ad copy was specifically referring to the KAC SR-25, which uses an extrusion for their upper.

-Troy



Link Posted: 12/27/2004 6:16:41 AM EDT
Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??

5sub
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:07:54 AM EDT
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.

Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
...somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me...







...as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.



...but I still question armalites lower.


Of all the things that a Bushmaster troll could rail on ArmaLite about and you choose the one that nearly EVERYONE knows as fact? Whether or not ArmaLite uses forged receivers?



That's retarded.


Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:59:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.

Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.



fuz1on,
why don't you give Troy your lesson on the ills of chrome lined barrels are while he's on the board. Bet he'll be impressed !! (Maybe just link to your previous discussion that other topic ??)



5sub
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 3:53:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 4:02:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2004 5:11:20 PM EDT by QCMGR]
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 4:08:58 PM EDT
I have a panther classic witha 20" heavy barrel that is forged upper and lower. It is also very accurate and trouble free. I would not buy their 308 over the bushmaster due to the fact that the bushmaster uses cheaper magazines and when you look at buying 10 magazines at $59 apiece compared to the $20 or so that the fn mags costs that adds up quick.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:17:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:23:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:37:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 8:11:19 PM EDT
Wrong, stomped, refraining, profuse apologies.

But not a troll..L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:11:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can absolutely confirm that Armalite's AR10 receivers, both upper and lower, are machined from forgings. Armalite owns these forging dies. They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers. Armalite's ad copy was specifically referring to the KAC SR-25, which uses an extrusion for their upper.

-Troy



Red highlight is total bullshit, Bushmaster BAR10 uses uppers and lowers forged from 7075 T6 aluminum.

LRT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:13:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.

Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.



fuz1on,
why don't you give Troy your lesson on the ills of chrome lined barrels are while he's on the board. Bet he'll be impressed !! (Maybe just link to your previous discussion that other topic ??)



5sub



Troy lied about Armalite being the only forged upper and lower, not true at all so do not go breaking your arm slapping yourself on the back.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:24:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.
Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.



Nobody has to prove anything being different from what YOU claim.

Please,do not make statements that you do not document .Like saying "they look bulky to me",since that is not proof that they are NOT machined from forgings.
ArmaLite states they are,so unless you can provide evidence that they are NOT,please refrain from making such comments.



Hate to say Ed but Troy is pushing BS here and the others are following him down the drain, I am a certified armorer for Armalite and Bushmaster as well as Colt and FN.


Troy stated that Armalite is the only one that has forged .308 uppers and lowers, that is
Statement. Why not some of the so called experts document it before absolutely confirming this.

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can absolutely confirm that Armalite's AR10 receivers, both upper and lower, are machined from forgings. Armalite owns these forging dies. They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers. Armalite's ad copy was specifically referring to the KAC SR-25, which uses an extrusion for their upper.

I care not for one or another since 99% of all my weapons besides the Colts are hybrid weapons, for what you have no clue about hybrid weapons it is comprised of various parts that I know function in perfection.

I dare not claim myself as an expert, but I know a few that are not.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:41:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.
Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.



Nobody has to prove anything being different from what YOU claim.

Please,do not make statements that you do not document .Like saying "they look bulky to me",since that is not proof that they are NOT machined from forgings.
ArmaLite states they are,so unless you can provide evidence that they are NOT,please refrain from making such comments.



Hate to say Ed but Troy is pushing BS here and the others are following him down the drain, I am a certified armorer for Armalite and Bushmaster as well as Colt and FN.


Troy stated that Armalite is the only one that has forged .308 uppers and lowers, that is
Statement. Why not some of the so called experts document it before absolutely confirming this.

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can absolutely confirm that Armalite's AR10 receivers, both upper and lower, are machined from forgings. Armalite owns these forging dies. They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers. Armalite's ad copy was specifically referring to the KAC SR-25, which uses an extrusion for their upper.

I care not for one or another since 99% of all my weapons besides the Colts are hybrid weapons, for what you have no clue about hybrid weapons it is comprised of various parts that I know function in perfection.

I dare not claim myself as an expert, but I know a few that are not.



He retracted and clarified....however I wouldn't align myself too closely with the other side of the two arguers as he stated that Bushmaster was the only one to use forged receivers, which is commonly and EASILY known to be an error. Anybody with even two brain cells knows that all Armalite and Eagle Arms receivers are FORGED, right?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:24:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
5sub..


Let's see FUZ......that makes you 0 for 2 doesn't it ??



I'm definately "1 for 2" (and man enough to admit it) but before I own the "0 for 2" status somebody is going to hafta prove to me that Armalite "Forges Their Lowers" as to me???...they appear to be bulky castings and nowhere in advertising land can I find where armalite comes out and directly claims that they "Forge Their Lowers"....uppers???....you betcha!!!!...everywhere you look Armalite brags about forging "their uppers" but not a word about their lowers.
Besides...the "1 for 2" status would tie me with Troy as he as well is incorrect in stating that...


They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers.


as now Bushmaster does forge both their uppers and lowers on their .308 BAR-10.

Ya know guys, again???...I apologize....I had a senior moment and definately mis-spoke in regards to the dpms/panther but I still question armalites lower.

L8R, Bill.



Nobody has to prove anything being different from what YOU claim.

Please,do not make statements that you do not document .Like saying "they look bulky to me",since that is not proof that they are NOT machined from forgings.
ArmaLite states they are,so unless you can provide evidence that they are NOT,please refrain from making such comments.



Hate to say Ed but Troy is pushing BS here and the others are following him down the drain, I am a certified armorer for Armalite and Bushmaster as well as Colt and FN.


Troy stated that Armalite is the only one that has forged .308 uppers and lowers, that is
Statement. Why not some of the so called experts document it before absolutely confirming this.

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can absolutely confirm that Armalite's AR10 receivers, both upper and lower, are machined from forgings. Armalite owns these forging dies. They are the only company that makes a .308 AR using forged receivers. Armalite's ad copy was specifically referring to the KAC SR-25, which uses an extrusion for their upper.

I care not for one or another since 99% of all my weapons besides the Colts are hybrid weapons, for what you have no clue about hybrid weapons it is comprised of various parts that I know function in perfection.

I dare not claim myself as an expert, but I know a few that are not.



He retracted and clarified....however I wouldn't align myself too closely with the other side of the two arguers as he stated that Bushmaster was the only one to use forged receivers, which is commonly and EASILY known to be an error. Anybody with even two brain cells knows that all Armalite and Eagle Arms receivers are FORGED, right?



I know what you're saying Ed but you know me as in person and also know that I love all forms of weapons, I would never take sides with anyone but do detest when people swear they know it to be fact and it is not even close.

I could also care less on who wins any pissing contest like this, but I am incorrect often but never would swear about being correct unless hard factual evidence was provided by a 3rd party. I do even have faith in what the manufacturer’s state half the time until it is proven beyond factual evidence.

As far as I know of my 2 builds on Eagle lowers and uppers are forged and show no obvious castings as an essential arms casting would, never have seen a cast Armalite so it would be safe to say that I have never known that a cast Armalite exist.

Anyone have a GM lower on an A1?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:28:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 12:52:49 PM EDT by Death2usama]
You really don't know what your talking about do you Willis?

Originally Posted By FUZ1ON:
The DPMS/Panther Arms .308 is less expensive in large part due to the fact that both it's upper and lower recievers are "CAST"....and castings are far less costly but designed dimensionally bulkier (to make up for the decreased inherent structural strength/integrity of the cast material vs forged material) hence also "heavier"...however...several of my FFL buds customers have purchased such and all are generally pleased with the rifles overall performance.

The Panther.308 was considered in my recent purchase of a BAR-10 as was Amalites AR-10 series.....withy the Panthers Cast recievers pricing in the $900 range...Armalites Fordged Uppers Only tipping right at $1,200 and the BAR-10's Cast Upper and Lower tilting the register at $1,400.

All reportedly perform well.....some are just lighter and stronger yet more costly.

L8R, Bill.

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