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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/19/2005 2:01:51 PM EDT
Is a type A3 (flattop) AOK for Camp Perry style shooting as well as NRA marches? Do I have to had a carry handle(removable for the A3 style??? Newbie needs to know before ordering... Would like to mount a scope for sighting in and benchresting, then iron sights for competition... What's the best combination of parts (ordering upper from WOP)...

Jon Frost
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:34:08 PM EDT
I think the A3 with the carry handle is now approved for DCM shooting, as odd as this may sound...... I might be WRONG!, but I don't think so.

Bill
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:40:00 PM EDT
yes, removable carry handle is now approved for CMP competitions.
I heard this confirmation when I was at Camp Perry a couple of weeks ago.

Both Armalite & RRA offers A3 flat top NM rifles.
I didn't check Bushmaster's store at the commercial row.

Matt.


Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:47:21 PM EDT
You'll need a apecial carry handle from Rock River if you are shooting across the course with it. The standard detachable carry handle won't give you enough elevation for 600yds. Rock river makes one for 200-600 yard shooting.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:25:43 PM EDT
Still in the throws of configuring my new RRA - WOP DCM/NRA Gun... Trying to make the best decisions I can from the get go... Are there any RRA/WOP owners out there with pics of their sticks???
Ordered my lower today from Eagle Firearms... nice folks with great prices!

Thanks, Jon
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:40:31 PM EDT
Flat tops with carry handles were approved over a year ago, you will not be able to get enough elevation at 600yds. with this set up. I have not seen a special carry handle from R.R. that will work at 600yds it must be new if it exists, I don't know where they would get the room unless maybe it starts at 200yds. Look forward to hearing more on this.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:58:25 PM EDT
My Elite CAR with the tactical handle has plenty of elevation for 600 yds, I've been shooting at that distance once a month at the local NRA matches.I compete in the match rifle class.Rear sight is a standard 3/6. I've shot it out to 900 yds with 2 full revs of the wheel. I don't know why the DCM sight should be different.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:41:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mailmanx:
Still in the throws of configuring my new RRA - WOP DCM/NRA Gun... Trying to make the best decisions I can from the get go... Are there any RRA/WOP owners out there with pics of their sticks???
Ordered my lower today from Eagle Firearms... nice folks with great prices!

Thanks, Jon



I just had a WOA 1/7 match barrel put in my RRA NM rifle by Troy at ORF. I'll let you know how it shoots next weekend.

It is also very evil.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mailmanx:
Is a type A3 (flattop) AOK for Camp Perry style shooting as well as NRA marches? Do I have to had a carry handle(removable for the A3 style??? Newbie needs to know before ordering... Would like to mount a scope for sighting in and benchresting, then iron sights for competition... What's the best combination of parts (ordering upper from WOP)...

Jon Frost



Jon, the flat top is actually an A4. Here is what the CMP has to say about their approved configuration.

I suggest you download the CMP rulebook (from their website) and order one from the NRA (theirs is not on line). You really need to be familiar with most of what is there if you are serious about this.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:20:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911roben:
My Elite CAR with the tactical handle has plenty of elevation for 600 yds, I've been shooting at that distance once a month at the local NRA matches.I compete in the match rifle class.Rear sight is a standard 3/6. I've shot it out to 900 yds with 2 full revs of the wheel. I don't know why the DCM sight should be different.



Because you are not using 80gr. or 90VLD's as you would/should be using in DCM service rifle competion. Also, both the tactical handle and your rifle as you probably know would not be allowed in service rifle competion.

If you try to use anything lighter then 80 gr. at 600yds. with the possible exception of Hornadys 75 which still takes to much wind, your score will go to shit real fast in the wind.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 8:38:12 PM EDT by cycobushmaster]
There is no "drop-in" carry handle for a flat top that will perform flawlessly. After you spend $130+ on the carry handle, reserve the same amount for a competent gunsmith to re-work it. These detachable handles are not perfected yet. They are kind of a blacksheep in Service Rifle.

I recommend buying a standard Armalite carry handle. It has a recoil lug that fits in the pic rail and really helps to get repeatable zeros when re-installing. Then have a competent AR smith put in the rear sight. Get stuff from Compass Lake or similar place. Don't re-use the standard hardware, get all new stuff made for the detachable handle. You want the highest quality parts.

The elevation and windage clicks need to be crisp and repeatable. A good sight insert with your desired aperture (0.40" is a good start). Have the smith do some work with the detent springs so the sight doesn't twist. I would also have the rear sight pinned so it tracks straight up and down.

Spending the money once on quality stuff, and not twice on crap.
I learned the hard way.

My carry handle has over $250 invested in it, but it works great. I put it on top of an Armalite 16" mid-length target upper. I have 28 MOA of elevation and shoots almost as good at 600 yds as my service rifle. My detachable handle is now a family heirloom and my wife hates me.

ETA:
You are just starting in the service rifle. Forward assist has a good point about bullet selections, but I suggest that you start with mag length Hornady 75s at 600yds. As you improve, you can start experimenting with the 75 AMAX, 80SMK, and 80 & 90 VLDs. H 75s are a little frustrating in the wind, but you have other things to worry about first. By the time you need the edge of the VLD bullets, you will be on your 2nd or 3rd barrel. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:
If you try to use anything lighter then 80 gr. at 600yds. with the possible exception of Hornadys 75 which still takes to much wind, your score will go to shit real fast in the wind.



Not the AMAX. Easily driven 100 fps faster than a Sierra 80 with the same charge and has a higher BC.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:59:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:
If you try to use anything lighter then 80 gr. at 600yds. with the possible exception of Hornadys 75 which still takes to much wind, your score will go to shit real fast in the wind.



Not the AMAX. Easily driven 100 fps faster than a Sierra 80 with the same charge and has a higher BC.



I said with the possible exception of the Hornady 75's possible because the A-max often does not shoot well, some rifles like them, some don't. Sierra 80's should be tried first, they work well in most rifles where as the 90 VLD's are also hit in miss with different rifles. Sierra's new 90 BTHP is worth looking at to however I have not seen anyone getting it to shoot real well yet. accuracy will be more important here as 100fps is only good for about one grain of powder. The only way to know is to try them all.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:11:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:
The only way to know is to try them all.



Agreed. My rifle loves 75 AMAX at 600, and the 75 HPBT at 2/3.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:11:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:
If you try to use anything lighter then 80 gr. at 600yds. with the possible exception of Hornadys 75 which still takes to much wind, your score will go to shit real fast in the wind.



Not the AMAX. Easily driven 100 fps faster than a Sierra 80 with the same charge and has a higher BC.



I said with the possible exception of the Hornady 75's possible because the A-max often does not shoot well, some rifles like them, some don't. Sierra 80's should be tried first, they work well in most rifles where as the 90 VLD's are also hit in miss with different rifles. Sierra's new 90 BTHP is worth looking at to however I have not seen anyone getting it to shoot real well yet. accuracy will be more important here as 100fps is only good for about one grain of powder. The only way to know is to try them all.



The Army AMU used the 90's with great success this year at Perry.
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