Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 9/28/2004 6:49:21 AM EST
Yesterday went to a new range, with new rules as always. This range doesn't allow mags, so I had to single load my colt and bushmaster M4s. When the round is fired, I typically put my finger over the bottom of the bolt release, so when the round is fired, the bolt remains locked.

However, I'd say about 50% of the time this did not work (because my thumb was starting to blister. DOH.). So I had to manually pull the charging handle to lock the bolt for loading the single round.

Question, I realize that the charging handle is made out of some sort've polymer or plastic. How long does it last? And why can't they make one out of alumnium or some sort've light weight metal? Is there a replacement for it which IS made out of something tougher?

Thanks.

PS. 4" MOA at 100 yards w/ iron sights on the colt. Is that good?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:59:24 AM EST
That's strange. All the charging handles that I've run across are made out of aluminum.

You might want to see if the range allows a SLED which will save wear and tear on your fingers.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:00:36 AM EST
Is that aluminum? God, now I feel stupid. I want to drive home from work just to check it out now.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:04:32 AM EST

This range doesn't allow mags, so I had to single load my colt and bushmaster M4s.


You gotta be chitting me? if so, I would find a differnt place to shoot.


TG
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:05:17 AM EST
I suggest (if possible) you check out a range that does allow magazines. That is a stupid fucking policy and it ruins half the fun of what the AR is about. It might as well be the PRK if single shot is mandatory (maybe it's infectious seeing how close you are to that abomination).
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:12:01 AM EST
Yeah, you have to become a member (~$100) to shoot w/ mags. You should've seen the face of the owner when I slapped a 30 round mag into the Colt, I thought he was going to kick my ass for sure.

Never going back there again.

FYI, the range:
Kenmore Ranges
Bothell, WA

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:14:34 AM EST
The AR15/M16 charging handle is a forged piece of 7075T6 aluminum. The AR15/M16 family of rifle is designed to magazine fed, if you fed in each round single by hand you may get a slam fire, which is dangerous.
I too would also recommend finding a new range to fire your rifle. Or use a different gun when you attend this range.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:18:12 AM EST
Here in Texas, that range owner would get his ass stumped.

We dont tolerate tyrant antics of extortion.$100 to use mags?

TG
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:19:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By TexasGunman:
Here in Texas, that range owner would get his ass stumped.

We dont tolerate tyrant antics of extortion.$100 to use mags?

TG



TG, can you gather up a gang and pay this range a visit for the greater good of AR owners in the WA state?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:21:57 AM EST
Go somewhere else! I have had a government for 10 years tell me I can only have 10 round mag's.

I sure as hell would not stay at a place that would not let you have any mags
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:26:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By warlord:
The AR15/M16 family of rifle is designed to magazine fed, if you fed in each round single by hand you may get a slam fire, which is dangerous.
quote]

How would he get a slam fire by hand feeding his AR?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:32:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 7:52:48 AM EST by M4Kid]
Because instead of slamming the bolt close once per 30 rounds, it's slamming close per round.

Edit: Sorry, I should've said:

Because instead of slamming the bolt close manually once per 30 rounds, I'm slamming close per round. Safety-wise, this is dangerous.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:37:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 7:39:12 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:41:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4Kid:

Originally Posted By TexasGunman:
Here in Texas, that range owner would get his ass stumped.

We dont tolerate tyrant antics of extortion.$100 to use mags?

TG



TG, can you gather up a gang and pay this range a visit for the greater good of AR owners in the WA state?



Dont need no gang,just a few cases of beer and get these good ole boys to go shooting with me.
If yea seen these ole'country boys, you wouldnt want to pissed them off.

Im easy going,unless something really tics me off, liable to shoot the sob myself.

Like that saying goes,purchased a six pack, to just watch it die.

Seriously, wouldnt go to a range like that.

TG
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:43:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:47:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By M4Kid:
Because instead of slamming the bolt close once per 30 rounds, it's slamming close per round.



Uhh...and the bolt doesn't close the same way when cycling?



Yes it does.

Ok, it really doesn't make a difference for me, safety-wise when loading single or mag. However, when loading the single round, I find it easier to tip the barrel so it's aimed slightly downwards, so the round doesn't slip out. Then, w/ my sights down-range, I slam the bolt close.

However, I was there w/ my brother and he's new at this, I caught him atleast three times slamming the bolt close when the gun was still aimed at the group 3 feet in front of him. I yelled at him and gave him a lecture on gun safety.

Normal cycling through a mag is different safety-wise, since you are most likely still looking through the sights at your target.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:49:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By M4Kid:
Because instead of slamming the bolt close once per 30 rounds, it's slamming close per round.



Uhh...and the bolt doesn't close the same way when cycling?



+1 -- That's what I thought too.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:15:43 AM EST
Ought to change the title of this thread to "Kenmore Range's Life Span?"
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:45:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 10:45:51 AM EST by mr_smashy]
I'm a member at a a range that's "single round load only" and personally I like it. It's a public range and rules like that keep the racket down, the neighbors happy, and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower. If I need to practice my rapid stages, I setup in the Timed Fire Zone and get a range officer's OK. It's not a big deal because I usually setup there anyhow; I don't have to drag benches out of the way and the RO are usually hp competitors that know me from matches.

I think more ranges should enforce this sort of rule because it would promote actual marksmanship; people who just want something that goes 'BANG' can buy some firecrackers or an airsoft replica.

try one of these: www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=SHACTMFSI&item=14-100&type=store
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:53:35 AM EST
Groan, the type that's perfectly fine with their rights getting whittled down.

Don't try to sound reasonable, that's just weak.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:55:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:03:36 AM EST
The Issaquah Sportsman's Club Range allows use of mags...just no rapid fire (there's a school nearby and you know what that means). And no, you don't have to be a member.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:04:46 AM EST
Find a new place to shoot
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:06:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 11:09:22 AM EST by mr_smashy]

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Groan, the type that's perfectly fine with their rights getting whittled down.

Don't try to sound reasonable, that's just weak.



It's well within your rights to waddle up to a bench and do 5 or 6 mag dumps into a neon orange target at 100 yards with a 10x scope and laugh with your buddys about how hot your barrel is without even taking a look at your target. You're also well within you rights to watch midget porno and choke the chicken like a crazy madman. In most states, that is. But you probably shouldn't do either in public.

This isn't about rights, this is about respect and being a rifleman.

put 10 rounds into 3" at 300 yards in 60 seconds with a magazine change, laying down with irons. Then you'll get respect, and have the ability to back up your rights. That's anything but weak.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:07:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower.




I think the only retard here is you (yes, I'm making a personal attack). Do you actually believe what you said?


Firearm safety centers around muzzle and trigger discipline - NOT magazine capacity.

Lord, that's retarded...

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:09:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
BLAH BLAH BLAH



Ugggh....



+1. As long as people are shooting in a safe manner, who are you to judge what style of shooting is acceptable or not?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:10:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
It's well within your rights to waddle up to a bench and do 5 or 6 mag dumps into a neon orange target at 100 yards with a 10x scope and laugh with your buddys about how hot your barrel is without even taking a look at your target.




That may be some of the most blatant, ignorant, stereotyping I've ever read.

Now, I'm starting to believe that you are nothing but a troll. And to think I got suckered...

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:12:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:13:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
I'm a member at a a range that's "single round load only" and personally I like it. It's a public range and rules like that keep the racket down, the neighbors happy, and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower. If I need to practice my rapid stages, I setup in the Timed Fire Zone and get a range officer's OK. It's not a big deal because I usually setup there anyhow; I don't have to drag benches out of the way and the RO are usually hp competitors that know me from matches.

I think more ranges should enforce this sort of rule because it would promote actual marksmanship; people who just want something that goes 'BANG' can buy some firecrackers or an airsoft replica.

try one of these: www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=SHACTMFSI&item=14-100&type=store



I own an AR specifically so I can engage multiple targets rapidly. This is after all the point of semi aoutomatic firearms. If I was interested in precision single shots I would shoot a bolt gun (I do that as well) if I want to practice with the AR the way Eugene Stoner intended I use a magazine.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:28:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
I own an AR specifically so I can engage multiple targets rapidly. This is after all the point of semi aoutomatic firearms. If I was interested in precision single shots I would shoot a bolt gun (I do that as well) if I want to practice with the AR the way Eugene Stoner intended I use a magazine.



In the case of this argument I think we are talking about a range where you can sit down at a bench and "engage" only one target. Then why bring your AR15 to the range at all if that is your pimary directive? Why get upset when the range tells you you can only do single load?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:34:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 11:35:50 AM EST by Currahee]

Originally Posted By davesbedroom:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
I own an AR specifically so I can engage multiple targets rapidly. This is after all the point of semi aoutomatic firearms. If I was interested in precision single shots I would shoot a bolt gun (I do that as well) if I want to practice with the AR the way Eugene Stoner intended I use a magazine.



In the case of this argument I think we are talking about a range where you can sit down at a bench and "engage" only one target. Then why bring your AR15 to the range at all if that is your pimary directive? Why get upset when the range tells you you can only do single load?



Even if I can only engage one target, it is better to practice multiple shots at that target, otherwise you might as well use a bolt gun. Most ranges have a series of stands/target posts on which you can post multiple individual targets, even better training. The sugestion that you "aren't a rifleman" if you shoot from a magazine is rediculous. To answer the "why bring your AR?" question, I wouldn't, I would find a new place to shoot.

ETA: the assersion that using magazines is somehow unsafe is even more absurd, not to mention personaly insulting.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:35:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Friendly_Sponge:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower.




I think the only retard here is you (yes, I'm making a personal attack). Do you actually believe what you said?


Firearm safety centers around muzzle and trigger discipline - NOT magazine capacity.

Lord, that's retarded...




I agree, How on earth can single loading an AR (or just about any semi-automatic rifle), be any safer for a novice shooter since single loading autos requires much more handling and improvising?

I guess some Ranges have to modify their rules (for safety sake) to match the IQ's of their members!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:40:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
Even if I can only engage one target, it is better to practice multiple shots at that target, otherwise you might as well use a bolt gun. Most ranges have a series of stands/target posts on which you can post multiple individual targets, even better training. The sugestion that you "aren't a rifleman" if you shoot from a magazine is rediculous. To answer the "why bring your AR?" question, I wouldn't, I would find a new place to shoot.



So how many positions do you use to practice your multiple shots?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:40:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
I'm a member at a a range that's "single round load only" and personally I like it. It's a public range and rules like that keep the racket down, the neighbors happy, and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower. If I need to practice my rapid stages, I setup in the Timed Fire Zone and get a range officer's OK. It's not a big deal because I usually setup there anyhow; I don't have to drag benches out of the way and the RO are usually hp competitors that know me from matches.

I think more ranges should enforce this sort of rule because it would promote actual marksmanship; people who just want something that goes 'BANG' can buy some firecrackers or an airsoft replica.

try one of these: www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=SHACTMFSI&item=14-100&type=store



You, sir, are an asshat. Just buy a blackpowder rifle and join the rest of the suede fringe crowd and leave us be.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:43:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:

Originally Posted By davesbedroom:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
I own an AR specifically so I can engage multiple targets rapidly. This is after all the point of semi aoutomatic firearms. If I was interested in precision single shots I would shoot a bolt gun (I do that as well) if I want to practice with the AR the way Eugene Stoner intended I use a magazine.



In the case of this argument I think we are talking about a range where you can sit down at a bench and "engage" only one target. Then why bring your AR15 to the range at all if that is your pimary directive? Why get upset when the range tells you you can only do single load?



Even if I can only engage one target, it is better to practice multiple shots at that target, otherwise you might as well use a bolt gun. Most ranges have a series of stands/target posts on which you can post multiple individual targets, even better training. The sugestion that you "aren't a rifleman" if you shoot from a magazine is rediculous. To answer the "why bring your AR?" question, I wouldn't, I would find a new place to shoot.

ETA: the assersion that using magazines is somehow unsafe is even more absurd, not to mention personaly insulting.



I think if you need a magazine then no, you aren't a rifleman.

Don't get me wrong though, I shoot with magazines every time I'm at the range, but I only shoot 10 rounds at a time, and I load them 8 and 2. 10 rounds in 60 seconds with a mag change. That's about as fiesty as i need to get with a round paper target that's not going anywhere. You want to get fancy and "engage multiple targets"? Take a 'tactical' rifle class. They make you run around with your AR too, might be good for you.

If you can't wrap your head around how the exclusion of magazines increases saftey, then you might deserve to be insulted. It's pretty simple.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:43:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By davesbedroom:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
Even if I can only engage one target, it is better to practice multiple shots at that target, otherwise you might as well use a bolt gun. Most ranges have a series of stands/target posts on which you can post multiple individual targets, even better training. The sugestion that you "aren't a rifleman" if you shoot from a magazine is rediculous. To answer the "why bring your AR?" question, I wouldn't, I would find a new place to shoot.



So how many positions do you use to practice your multiple shots?



Four: Standing, Kneeling, sitting and "rice patty prone" plus bench rest when I want to see how good it can get and prone when no one else is on the line.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:45:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
I'm a member at a a range that's "single round load only" and personally I like it. It's a public range and rules like that keep the racket down, the neighbors happy, and the chances of getting shot by some retard much lower. If I need to practice my rapid stages, I setup in the Timed Fire Zone and get a range officer's OK. It's not a big deal because I usually setup there anyhow; I don't have to drag benches out of the way and the RO are usually hp competitors that know me from matches.

I think more ranges should enforce this sort of rule because it would promote actual marksmanship; people who just want something that goes 'BANG' can buy some firecrackers or an airsoft replica.

try one of these: www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=SHACTMFSI&item=14-100&type=store



You, sir, are an asshat. Just buy a blackpowder rifle and join the rest of the suede fringe crowd and leave us be.



you, may be a nut job. Just buy a paintball marker and join the rest of the camo clad psychos and leave the guns alone.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:49:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:

Originally Posted By davesbedroom:

Originally Posted By Currahee:
Even if I can only engage one target, it is better to practice multiple shots at that target, otherwise you might as well use a bolt gun. Most ranges have a series of stands/target posts on which you can post multiple individual targets, even better training. The sugestion that you "aren't a rifleman" if you shoot from a magazine is rediculous. To answer the "why bring your AR?" question, I wouldn't, I would find a new place to shoot.



So how many positions do you use to practice your multiple shots?



Four: Standing, Kneeling, sitting and "rice patty prone" plus bench rest when I want to see how good it can get and prone when no one else is on the line.



prone when no one else is on the line? Why? Don't want a steady stream of hot wolf brass down your neck?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:49:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:

Four: Standing, Kneeling, sitting and "rice patty prone" plus bench rest when I want to see how good it can get and prone when no one else is on the line.



How many yards?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:58:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:04:16 PM EST by Currahee]
To go prone you have to go in fron of the line, which is really unsafe. Not like "magazines are unsafe" but really unsafe. I can stand the Wolf brass.

I practice at 50 and 100 yards. 200 I just shoot from sitting or benchrest.

Oh, I have a lot of cammo clothes...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:07:02 PM EST
Yikes, now I know why you don't shoot offhand at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:10:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Currahee:
I practice at 50 and 100 yards. 200 I just shoot from sitting or benchrest.

Oh, I have a lot of cammo clothes...
img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/7-30AR4.jpg



Now thats marksmanship.

Now post some of your best targets from 200 yards.

I'd make my way to the 25 yard range if my standing position looked like that.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:11:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:13:18 PM EST by 89grand]
I wouldn't shoot at any range that wouldn't allow the use of magazines. As far as I'm concerned the whole premise about it being more "safe" is down right assine. I hate the people that claim the those who like to blow off rounds (from a magazine of course) from a semi auto are redneck idiots. I wouldn't waste my timing buying AR's or AK's if I wanted to single shoot, I'd buy a fucking single shot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:13:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:14:23 PM EST by DaTrueDave]

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
Yikes, now I know why you don't shoot offhand at 200 yards.



It is somewhat scary that so many of the good people here don't shoot from any further than 50-100 yards and sometimes only from a bench. I mean, I understand that some people only want this very versatile rifle for CQB/home defense purposes, but c'mon... If you don't know how to shoot, you don't know how to shoot.

Fundamentals are fundamentals. Some people here are downright frightening.

Edit: But I wouldn't shoot at a range that didn't allow magazines, either... That's stupid.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:20:04 PM EST
Oh I see this has thread has gone down the toilet.

Find a new range. If there are people acting in an unsafe manor with magazines... leave, or correct them. I have a magazine fed rifle so I'll shoot it with magazines. Magazines don't suddenly make you more dangerous, or a worse shot. There is no need to be shoving rounds into the chamber by hand.

I've had far more bolt guns pointed at me and every other damn direction at ranges then I ever had AR's. Seen several shot over the burm when retards cycle them with finger in the trigger guard. I guess the rifleman/safety magic didn't rub off on them.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:22:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By DaTrueDave:

Originally Posted By mr_smashy:
Yikes, now I know why you don't shoot offhand at 200 yards.



It is somewhat scary that so many of the good people here don't shoot from any further than 50-100 yards and sometimes only from a bench. I mean, I understand that some people only want this very versatile rifle for CQB/home defense purposes, but c'mon... If you don't know how to shoot, you don't know how to shoot.

Fundamentals are fundamentals. Some people here are downright frightening.

Edit: But I wouldn't shoot at a range that didn't allow magazines, either... That's stupid.



That's all I have access to. 100 yards max, and only bench or standing. Untill I buy that land I want, I don't have too many options.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:27:05 PM EST
clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubSearch.cgi

I don't know what your situation is, but there might be something in your area you're not aware of.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:30:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By 89grand:
I wouldn't shoot at any range that wouldn't allow the use of magazines. As far as I'm concerned the whole premise about it being more "safe" is down right assine. I hate the people that claim the those who like to blow off rounds (from a magazine of course) from a semi auto are redneck idiots. I wouldn't waste my timing buying AR's or AK's if I wanted to single shoot, I'd buy a fucking single shot.



I can imagine things might be more hectic for a range officer if there is a line of people fireing at the advanced rate a magazine lets you. That might be a direct corrolation to saftey.
They obviously have their reasons because more and more ranges are moving twoards these rules. Why don't you ask them?

Bottom line: It is the ranges RIGHT to not allow magazines. Go somewhere else.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:34:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:41:54 PM EST by TexasGunman]
mr_smashy, yea got to be chitting us?

Sound like a damn nursing home antics.


Gotta be a troll.

Here a 100 yard target,shot standing.



Who U daddy?

TG
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:45:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:04:50 PM EST by 89grand]

Originally Posted By davesbedroom:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
I wouldn't shoot at any range that wouldn't allow the use of magazines. As far as I'm concerned the whole premise about it being more "safe" is down right assine. I hate the people that claim the those who like to blow off rounds (from a magazine of course) from a semi auto are redneck idiots. I wouldn't waste my timing buying AR's or AK's if I wanted to single shoot, I'd buy a fucking single shot.



I can imagine things might be more hectic for a range officer if there is a line of people fireing at the advanced rate a magazine lets you. That might be a direct corrolation to saftey.
They obviously have their reasons because more and more ranges are moving twoards these rules. Why don't you ask them?

Bottom line: It is the ranges RIGHT to not allow magazines. Go somewhere else.



Well first of all I don't need to ask anybody because I've never been to a range that said "no magazines" if they did, like I said in my post, I would go somewhere else. Luckily I live in a state that you don't have to go to a range to shoot and I usually don't. I don't really see what's so hectic about magazine fed fire at the range anyway, the last time I was at a range you shoot when you're allowed to shoot and you stop when you're supposed to stop magazine fed or not. How exactly does the magazine come into play here? I'd rather shoot next to someone with a loaded 30rd magazine then to have someone keep fiddling around trying to get a single round in their rifle after every shot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:53:30 PM EST
So "real riflemen" engage only one target. with one round at a time. Witha partially loaded mag? I have known many riflemen. You sir, are no rifleman.
Riflemen have to be able to shoot and move, consider target priority, and engage them. So yes "real riflemen" probably would take a tactical class or something. What you are describing sounds more like what a retarded monkey would do if he wanted to be a sniper or something.
Also, just because we like to actually use magazines, does not mean we do mag dumps at every opportunity(it is fun occasionally though), there is such a thing as slow fire even with a loaded mag.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top