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Posted: 10/15/2008 2:20:45 AM EDT
My son and my nephew both have new Bushmasters, a 20" fluted and an M4, they both short stroke on Wolf 55gr.  They will fire and eject but will not feed the next round or lock the BCG on the last round.  I have two Colts and a De-Ton upper which eat the Wolf ammo without any issues.  Both the Bushy's worked fine on my reloads.  Has anyone else seen this issue??????????
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 2:51:56 AM EDT
I had that issue with Cabela's bulk ammo. It ran in my 20" but short stroked in my 16.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 3:09:01 AM EDT
Could be undergassed but usually BFI guns have generous gas ports.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 6:04:19 AM EDT
My M4 carbine has never been able to cycle Wolf ammo. I suspect the reason that most folks want to shoot Wolf is to take advantage of the price---myself included. It was the inability to shoot cheap Wolf ammo that pushed me into reloading. Now, I shoot brass-cased ammo exclusively, and the cost per round is substantially less than Wolf steel case ammo.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 6:19:24 AM EDT
I made contact with Bushmaster Tech Support this morning and they told me after a few hundred  ???????? rds the rifle should be able to digest Wolf.  

I'd still like to hear others expeiriances.
Link Posted: 10/15/2008 8:42:29 AM EDT
They're both bushmaster?

Check the carrier key screws, I'm willing to bet they've backed out on BOTH rifles.

Link Posted: 10/15/2008 9:53:01 AM EDT
Negative on that ghost rider, gas key screws are securely staked.  Both rifles run fine on brass cased ammo.l
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 5:56:51 AM EDT
ETA: My M4 has ~5000 rounds, and still chokes on Wolf steel-cased ammo. If you listen to Bushmaster (and a handful of others), by the time the carbine is 'broken-in' it will be worn out-----then you can freely use Wolf.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:25:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 9:27:01 AM EDT by MillerSHO]
So it's not a pressure/velocity issue?

The case itself is the case?

So lower weaker loaded brass ammo allows 100% function?
If it's just the case type itself would that imply that there is some blow by cause the case doesn't fully expand in the chamber?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:23:44 PM EDT
Here's what Bushmaster said,  

  " The Wolf ammunition is inexpensive as it is somewhat under loaded. Since the brass ammunition cycles alright there is not a gas port issue and the rifles were test fired at the factory to insure they cycled alright before being shipped. After breaking in the rifles with a couple of hundred rounds the Wolf should cycle alright. "

We'll just have to try that break-in, darn just think of all the rounds we'll have to fire.  Just think of all the poor defenseless targets we get to kill.  Deer season will be here soon too.

Semper Fi
   

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:40:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSgt82-02:
Here's what Bushmaster said,  

  " The Wolf ammunition is inexpensive as it is somewhat under loaded. Since the brass ammunition cycles alright there is not a gas port issue and the rifles were test fired at the factory to insure they cycled alright before being shipped. After breaking in the rifles with a couple of hundred rounds the Wolf should cycle alright. "

We'll just have to try that break-in, darn just think of all the rounds we'll have to fire.  Just think of all the poor defenseless targets we get to kill.  Deer season will be here soon too.

Semper Fi
   



That's actually alot of money in ammo nowadays.

Could you maybe try a lighter buffer to see if that helps?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:18:05 PM EDT
Hey, don't spoil my fun here.  I could easily shoot a couple of hundred rounds at the next tacdtical match.

I really hope we resolve this though, it took me along time to convert my nephew to an AR from ComBlock guns.  I do wish he had of let me build his M4, all my builds will fire any ammo.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 4:39:40 PM EDT
I've found wolf to be a little underpowered also.

A new rifle seems to have a little more resistance in the action than a broken in one.  So I would try a few hundred rounds of ammo you know makes it work, then clean it and lube it thoroughly.

While it doesn't really seem that a little wear on the parts should contribute to reliability that much, I know that my well used AR feels smoother and easier to charge than one that I only have a hundred or so rounds through.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 5:50:22 PM EDT
Try silver bear, I guess it's loaded a bit hotter.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 5:21:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SSgt82-02:
Here's what Bushmaster said,  

  " The Wolf ammunition is inexpensive as it is somewhat under loaded. Since the brass ammunition cycles alright there is not a gas port issue and the rifles were test fired at the factory to insure they cycled alright before being shipped. After breaking in the rifles with a couple of hundred rounds the Wolf should cycle alright. "

We'll just have to try that break-in, darn just think of all the rounds we'll have to fire.  Just think of all the poor defenseless targets we get to kill.  Deer season will be here soon too.

Semper Fi



That is correct, all of my new builds with Bushy barrels took about 200 rounds of good ammo to be able to shoot up Wolf.

My last build, a 20" with Bushy A2 barrel took 200 rounds of 5.56 Malaysian (it choked on the 5.56 for about 30 rounds and then smoothed out) and then it shot 880 rounds of Wolf with zero issues before it gunked up at 880. The rifle was pretty dirty by then.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 12:33:56 AM EDT
I got my 16" Bushmaster and about 500 rounds of wolf ammo new about 2 years ago.  My rifle short stroked everytime using the wolf ammo.  My department put on a rifle school where I shot about 400 rounds of 5.56 (not sure what brand) without any problems.  I took it out the other day and shot about 100 rounds of wolf through no problems.  One of my intructors told me that some bushmasters do in fact need a break in period before they will run wolf.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 2:50:10 PM EDT
I wonder why Bushmasters need a break in period but other rifles don't.  
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 4:57:34 AM EDT
Have 12 Bushies and 4 mixed breed in carbine and rifle lengths.  Everyone of them shot Wolf from day one with no issues.  Just broke in Fall sale 16 with new Beta C mag and 100 rounds of Wolf, no problems.  Lube them up before you go.  
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 9:13:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2008 9:20:47 AM EDT by wreckhog]
If you look at Bushmaster's faq, they talk about what ammo is OK to run. Wolf WAS OK for a long time. Now it is NOT OK.

Question / Issue 4/21/08

In your ammunition advisory Bushmaster, state that Wolf ammunition has been factory tested and is authorized to be fired. I bought 3 boxes of Wolf ammunition, I found that it would fire, but the bolt would only eject the rounds, would not feed the next round (bolt would stop at the magazine half way) some shots the bolt would only eject the spent casing and then the bolt would be found in the closed forward position without feeding the next round. What inexpensive ammunition is recommended in my M-4 ORC? I have tried Monarch brand ammunition and it seems to work well.

Answer / Solution

We recently removed the Wolf ammunition from the recommended list as it seems to be more under loaded than it was before. If the rifle is cycling Monarch alright I would break-in the rifle for 300 to 400 rounds and then the Wolf should cycle.


We would recommend any American manufactured .223 factory or 5.56 NATO ammunition for reliable functioning and performance.


Question / Issue  4/30/08

I was wondering if the Wolf military classic ammo will be okay to use? Also, is it common for smoke to be emitting from the vent holes on the forward handguards?  

Answer / Solution

You can try some of the Wolf ammunition to see if it will cycle alright. Sometimes you need to break the rifles in for 300 rounds or so before with quality ammo before the less expensive ammunition that is somewhat under loaded will cycle alright.
     There may have been some oil on the barrel causing it to smoke. It is common for there to be some gas leakage around the gas tube where it enters the gas block but that will usually carbon up after a while and seal itself off.  


Question / Issue 5/6/08

Is steel case ammo, such as that made by Wolf, O.K. to use?

Answer / Solution

Many people use the steel cased ammunition in our rifles with chrome lined chambers with no problems. The mild steel casings have not shown to produce any significant premature wear. For better results and reliability we recommend American factory .223 or NATO 5.56mm ammunition.


Link Posted: 10/21/2008 9:15:10 AM EDT
The OLD faq

This is an ammunition advisory from  the Bushmaster Website

999 Roosevelt Trail • P.O. Box 1479 •
Windham, Maine 04062 •
www.bushmaster.com • info@bushmaster.com ©
2006, Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., Windham, Maine
USA BUSHMASTER AMMUNITION ADVISORY BUSHMASTER AMMUNITION ADVISORY BUSHMASTER AMMUNITION ADVISORY BUSHMASTER’S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AMMUNITION SELECTION ARE STATED IN OUR WARRANTY: CAUTION: USE ONLY CLEAN, DRY, HIGH QUALITY, COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED AMMUNITION IN GOOD CONDITION which is appropriate to the 5.56mm NATO / .223 Remington Caliber of your firearm. We do not recommend the use of remanufactured or hand loaded ammunition because it may damage your rifle. The use of improper ammunition will invalidate your warranty. We extend this recommendation to include .308, 9mm (9mm x 19mm) and .22 LR Rimfire Ammunition for our products in those calibers as well. Recently, we have seen instances where poor quality, remanufactured, or over powered ammunition has caused damage to firearms. To ensure your safety, we are publishing this advisory regarding some brands of ammunition that we cannot recommend.
DO NOT USE: CCI Blazer 9mm Aluminum Cased Ammunition in blowback operation guns (i.e. our 9mm Carbine and Pistol)
DO NOT USE: Olympic 9mm Ammunition - manufactured in Greece
DO NOT USE: American Brand 9mm Ammunition
BUSHMASTER PERSONNEL HAVE USED THE FOLLOWING AMMUNITIONS in various calibers for testing at the factory, and found they will cycle without malfunction and have not caused damage or problems: PMC / SPEER / REMINGTON / WINCHESTER / WOLF / SELLIER & BELLOT AMERICAN EAGLE (Federal Manufactured) / M.E.N. (German Manufacture) IF IN THE FUTURE, ANY NEW INFORMATION OR INSTANCES RELATING TO AMMUNITION PROBLEMS ARISE, BUSHMASTER WILL UPDATE THIS ADVISORY ON OUR WEBSITE

Link Posted: 10/22/2008 8:33:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSgt82-02:
My son and my nephew both have new Bushmasters, a 20" fluted and an M4, they both short stroke on Wolf 55gr.  They will fire and eject but will not feed the next round or lock the BCG on the last round.  I have two Colts and a De-Ton upper which eat the Wolf ammo without any issues.  Both the Bushy's worked fine on my reloads.  Has anyone else seen this issue??????????


my bushy 16" M4 does the same with wolf..so I just choose not to shoot it.  For cheap plinking ammo I would recommend Monarch.  I have no issues with them.
Link Posted: 10/23/2008 2:07:01 PM EDT
I had a similar problem with a batch of Wolf.  Ran fine in a M&A kit gun that I had so I figured it was good.  Tried running it through a brand new LMT and had the exact same problems you described(wouldn't load next round, bolt didn't lock back, etc). The LMT ran 100% on any other ammo I had.

Contacted wolf, they offered to replace the ammo at no cost.  They said that they had a 'off' batch that others had been having problems with (paraphrase).
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:21:31 PM EDT
My bushy patrolmans carbine will eat wolf ammo and then it will choke on it for a while. I think that wolf is making a some out of spec cases. I had problems as of late from the 62 grain fmj black box not ejecting more than a few feet and failing to cycle the next round from time to time. The 55 grain has been good for the most part , around 500 rounds and no problems. I think it could be a bad lot.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 5:43:16 AM EDT
My Bushmaster runs great on everything except Wolf.

What about removing a weight or two from the Buffer assembly?  Would this make it easier to cycle lower powered ammo?

Surprisingly, after 100 rounds at the range yesturday with PMC, it started short stroking too.  I've never had a problem with PMC and I thought the gun was clean.  Maybe not.
I cleaned and oiled it well today, and I'm hoping for a quick fix to make sure it runs good this weekend at the match.

Link Posted: 11/7/2008 11:16:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:23:42 PM EDT
I have a Bushmaster 14.5" with 8,000 rounds through it that still doesnt run with Wolf.

My 16" Stag, 20" Bushmaster & 16" Armalite all run fine with wolf.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 7:44:17 PM EDT
I just got back from a two-day LEO firearms instructor seminar in New Jersey. The first afternoon was with the patrol rifle. Once again, I put over 400 rounds of Wolf MC through my Bushmaster and again, not one failure to feed, fire or extract.

As a side note, the Eotech 512 and CProduct 30-round mags all functioned perfectly too.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:45:07 PM EDT
OK Guys, thanks for all the input.  Installed a McFarland gas ring and lubed up the 20" fluted BM and now it runs on Wolf.  I'll experiment with the nephew's M4 when I can borrow it, he's getting a McFarland gas ring for Christmas when I do.

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 6:59:43 PM EDT
Bushmaster specificaly states in their manual shipped w/the firearm that Wolf is not an approved ammo and to not run it through your rifle and that it can cause problems

I'd go get the manual and type it out vebatim but I'm too damn tired.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:51:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By avenger44:
Bushmaster specifically states in their manual shipped w/the firearm that Wolf is not an approved ammo and to not run it through your rifle and that it can cause problems

I'd go get the manual and type it out verbatim but I'm too damn tired.



it may say that, but I have never had a problem with Wolf and Bushy. Sounds like the CMMG recommendation against Wolf and voiding the warranty.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:25:02 AM EDT
My 16 Bushy runs great on Wolf but I use the 62 grain stuff instead of the 55 grain(will shot both with no problems), I get better groups with the 62 grainers.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:58:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By avenger44:
Bushmaster specificaly states in their manual shipped w/the firearm that Wolf is not an approved ammo and to not run it through your rifle and that it can cause problems

I'd go get the manual and type it out vebatim but I'm too damn tired.


Really? When you find the page number, please post it has I don't seem to remember reading that in my manual.

Even their web site doesn't make this claim. From Bushmaster's FAQ;

Question / Issue

Do you suggest avoiding wolf .223 steel cased ammunition or any steel cased ammo for that fact? Thank you,

Answer / Solution

Many people use the mild steel cased ammunition in our rifles with the chrome lined barrels with no ill effects such as premature wear.

As always we recommend trying a sample of the ammunition before buying in bulk to see if it will cycle alright.

Less expensive ammunition can be somewhat under loaded and may not cycle in a new rifle but after a break-in of 300 to 400 rounds it should cycle alright.  

Direct Link to This FAQ

http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/?f=670

Wolf MC functions 100% in my rifle.


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:00:59 AM EDT
Another example from the Bushmaster site.............

Question / Issue

I was wondering if the Wolf military classic ammo will be okay to use? Also, is it common for smoke to be emitting from the vent holes on the forward handguards?  

Answer / Solution

You can try some of the Wolf ammunition to see if it will cycle alright. Sometimes you need to break the rifles in for 300 rounds or so before with quality ammo before the less expensive ammunition that is somewhat under loaded will cycle alright.

There may have been some oil on the barrel causing it to smoke. It is common for there to be some gas leakage around the gas tube where it enters the gas block but that will usually carbon up after a while and seal itself off.  


Direct Link to This FAQ

http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/?f=116
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:25:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 6:26:17 AM EDT by JohnNYPD]
Seems to be a problem with Bushmasters and Wolf ammo.

I would think it might have something to do with chamber tightness. I have a few friends that have Bushmasters and have many problems with Wolf.

I have a Rock River CAR A4 Midlengh...Thousands of rounds of Wolf with not one problem

My brother has a M4 Rock River....about 1000 rounds of Wolf with not one problem.

Anyone else think this might be a chamber issue with Bushmaster and not a gas issue?

John


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:44:50 PM EDT
No I do not think it is a Bushmaster issue as my rifle functions just fine.

Also, our three department rifles shot Wolf just fine too.

All four rifles were "broken in" with regular brass ammo, which is what Bushmaster recommends in the first place. If you take a brand new rifle..........any rifle.....and try to shoot Wolf through it, you may encounter some issues.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:01:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve_in_PA:
No I do not think it is a Bushmaster issue as my rifle functions just fine.

Also, our three department rifles shot Wolf just fine too.

All four rifles were "broken in" with regular brass ammo, which is what Bushmaster recommends in the first place. If you take a brand new rifle..........any rifle.....and try to shoot Wolf through it, you may encounter some issues.




Its good that your rifle fuctions well with Wolf. It makes for cheap practice.

But, It does seem that a large number of broken in Bushmasters do not fuction 100% with Wolf ammo.

It has gotten to the point that Bushmaster does not recommend Wolf  ammo for their AR's anymore.

Bushmasters not fuctioning with Wolf ammo seem to be a common topic on firearm message boards this  year.

I still think it might be a chamber tolerance problem. JMHO

John
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:54:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JohnNYPD:
Originally Posted By Steve_in_PA:
No I do not think it is a Bushmaster issue as my rifle functions just fine.

Also, our three department rifles shot Wolf just fine too.

All four rifles were "broken in" with regular brass ammo, which is what Bushmaster recommends in the first place. If you take a brand new rifle..........any rifle.....and try to shoot Wolf through it, you may encounter some issues.




Its good that your rifle fuctions well with Wolf. It makes for cheap practice.

But, It does seem that a large number of broken in Bushmasters do not fuction 100% with Wolf ammo.

It has gotten to the point that Bushmaster does not recommend Wolf  ammo for their AR's anymore.

Bushmasters not fuctioning with Wolf ammo seem to be a common topic on firearm message boards this  year.

I still think it might be a chamber tolerance problem. JMHO

John


the bushy barrel that I just bought 3 months ago works fine with Wolf so I don't think it is a chamber issue.

Also two people posted the FAQ from bushy's web site saying that Wolf is good. Where are you getting that Bushy does not recomend Wolf?

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