Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Site Notices
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:33:59 AM EDT
I've managed to convince myself that I need a bayonet for my A1 clone.  Since basically the rifle is all new-made or NOS pieces, I need an NOS bayonet.  There seems to be plenty available on Gunbroker in the $30 to $40 range from various makers.  I've looked at the bayonets page on retroblackrifle, but still have some questions.

1.  I've read mention of M7 bayonets made in Germany.  Which ones (maker) are those and when were they made?  Do they say "made in Germany" on them? I want to have a U.S.-made bayonet, and want to make sure I don't accidentally buy one of these.  

2.  I've seen in a recent Shotgun News ad that Apex Gun Parts has unissued Colt-stamped M7 bayonets.  I believe the picture showed a pony logo and said "Colt's" followed by a 5 or 6-digit number.  I assume these were not actually made by Colt.  Anyone know the maker of these?  I didn't see any reference to these on retroblackrifle.

3.  I've seen some N-I-W M7s that are dated 1973 at a pretty attractive price.  Would these be made in USA?  I really am not particular about the specific maker, but you can't tell anything about these, as they are still in the original wrappers.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:52:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I've managed to convince myself that I need a bayonet for my A1 clone.  Since basically the rifle is all new-made or NOS pieces, I need an NOS bayonet.  There seems to be plenty available on Gunbroker in the $30 to $40 range from various makers.  I've looked at the bayonets page on retroblackrifle, but still have some questions.

1.  I've read mention of M7 bayonets made in Germany.  Which ones (maker) are those and when were they made?   Do they say "made in Germany" on them? I want to have a U.S.-made bayonet, and want to make sure I don't accidentally buy one of these.  

2.  I've seen in a recent Shotgun News ad that Apex Gun Parts has unissued Colt-stamped M7 bayonets.  I believe the picture showed a pony logo and said "Colt's" followed by a 5 or 6-digit number.  I assume these were not actually made by Colt.  Anyone know the maker of these?  I didn't see any reference to these on retroblackrifle.

3.  I've seen some N-I-W M7s that are dated 1973 at a pretty attractive price.  Would these be made in USA?  I really am not particular about the specific maker, but you can't tell anything about these, as they are still in the original wrappers.


Both of these are one and the same.  They were made in West Germany by Eickhorn.   They are marked " West Germany" and I believe they were manu'd in the mid '70s.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:01:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:

2.  I've seen in a recent Shotgun News ad that Apex Gun Parts has unissued Colt-stamped M7 bayonets.  I believe the picture showed a pony logo and said "Colt's" followed by a 5 or 6-digit number.  I assume these were not actually made by Colt.  Anyone know the maker of these?  I didn't see any reference to these on retroblackrifle.


Both of these are one and the same.  They were made in West Germany by Eickhorn.   They are marked " West Germany" and I believe they were manu'd in the mid '70s.



I've got one o the Colt marked M7's from Apex. I've had it apart, and It doesn't have any "West Germany" markings. Would it have had an emblem or some other markings besides "West Germany" stamped on it?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:10:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Until recently I had a like new German made M7 with a Colt logo and part number on the blade. I always understood it was made by Eikhorn. It is a slightly different bayonet too as the grips were one piece without screws like the proper US M7's. Also the pommel was removeable, attached with a philips head screw. Good quality as you would expect with German steel!

Not as nice as a real US M7 though. I now have a couple of American ones!

Mike
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:13:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Carl Eickhorn bayonets will be marked "Made in Germany" on the handguard.

There's a little bit of information on the M7 Bayonet on Retro Black Rifle.
There's a listing of manufacturers at the bottom.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:42:23 AM EDT
[#5]
After colt made the 601 bayonet,they changed to the M7 bayonet and supplied the gov't with them.They have the pony,address, and the colt part #62316.. I have 2 of the colt bayos from apex and they are good to go when compared to the colt one I've owned for 25 years or so. Member willp is in the process of redoing his bayonet section on his web site,so for accurate and intellegent answers to questions you may want to contact him or view his site.
Here is his site:http://imageevent.com/willyp
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:06:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Carl Eickhorn bayonets will be marked "Made in Germany" on the handguard.

There's a little bit of information on the M7 Bayonet on Retro Black Rifle.
There's a listing of manufacturers at the bottom.


Tex,

I figured the Carl Eikhorn bayonets were the Germen-made ones, but it doesn't explicitly SAY that (unless I'm blind and just didn't see it), so I was unsure.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Not sure about them being marked "made in germany" on the crossguard,but I do know "made in W.Germany" is found with the colt logo on the blades.There's been one on GB for a long time now seller starting price is $300...I'll see if I can find it,but my preference would not ba a made in Germany one from a collectors piont of view.
ETA Auction no longer up.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:22:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Hey, what do I know anyways? (Wait, don't answer that... LOL)  

Anyways, here some pics and info I came across:

M7 Bayonets



Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:29:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Curious...  Compare your top picture with the logo on the blade of mine:

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:46:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for that pic Akars,,never saw the crossguard marked Made in Germany..
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 12:52:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Tex, welcome back!, hope all's well & a SPEEDY & FULL recovery!!!!!!, M1 you're too quick, not much on my site right now but a couple pics, since this came up I'll post a bit here from my "notes" before it gets up on the site.
From what I have been able to "gather", the first US bayonets for the M16 series were the green handled, Colt marked blade bayonets for the 601, these were not military per se & technically are not M7's, they were supplied by Colt w/the 601's & possibly early 602's, they were mfg under contract to Colt possibly by Universal Industries (UI), who also made mags for them, 62316 is the Colt part number for the bayonet, Imperial also mfg bayonets under contract for Colt but these were true M7 bayonets after the military had "decided" on the design & assigned it a number, M7, these bayonets had the standard military style checkered plastic grips w/2 screws, full Colt markings on the blade (right side only) & standard US military M7 markings, US M7 on the crossguard, these bayonets (the Imperial contract Colt M7's) had 1 difference the maker was not on the crossguard as all other military M7 makers are, they simply had the US M7 & the Colt markings, it's not definitely known yet whether these were early or later mfg as Imperials contract for military M7's began in 73 (these had no Colt blade mkgs & the crossguard was marked US M7, Imperial), but may have been early mfg.
US military M7's after were:
1) Milpar, marked US M7, Milpar on the crossguard, VN era. NOTE: there are a few M7's known that have US M7 Milpar on the crossguard & the full Colt markings on the blade, these are VERY rare, BUT, there's no info that's been found that Milpar ever made M7's under contract to Colt & it's very possible that these bayonets are Imperial mfg that had a Milpar mkd crossguard fitted during repair, at this point the Milpar Colt blade mkd bayonets are a question
2) BOC, marked US M7, BOC on the crossguard, VN era
3) Conetta, marked US M7, Conetta on the crossguard, VN era
4) FZR, marked US M7, FZR on the crossguard VN era  extremely rare!
5) Imperial, marked US M7, Imperial on the crossguard, NO Colt blade markings, ist mfg 1973, technically post VN
6) General Cutlery, marked US M7, GenCut on the crossguard, post VN
7) Ontario, marked US M7, Ontario on the crossguard, post VN, these are interesting as Ontario is the only known mfg who supplied M7 bayonets & M10 scabbards to the Govt at this point.
The above are the US military M7 bayonets to my knowledge, US M7's have been used by a bewildering number of countries & there are numerous small markings usually on the crossguard to indicate foreign usage, Israel & Korea mainly, rule of thumb US military M7's will have US M7 & the mfg on the crossguard (w/the exception of the Imperial Colt mkd ones), any other marking on the guard is "probably" indication of use by a foreign country. Also be aware that a lot of the military mfgs went out of business at some point & parts left over were purchased & assembled at times to sell the bayonets commercially so any deviation from the above guidelines would make the bayonet "questionable" to me, there are other indicators of commercial mfg or "assemblage" that are too numerous to go into here but involve tangs, crossguard mountings, grip material & blade runout!
Onto the German, Eickhorn M7's, first, as far as known NONE of the German mfg M7's were made for the US military or used by them, the first German M7's had no Colt markings on the blade, the 1st had the crossguard shortened on the bottom (they were made to fit the M16 & the German G3 which mounted the bayonet on top of the barrel, the guard was shortened so it didn't interfere w/the sight picture), the second was a "standard" M7, the examples of these that made it here are usually stamped "Germany" somewhere on the crossguard & again, there are minor differences in tangs, runout etc, the next group was the "common" Eickhorn M7 w/Colt markings on the blade, which are usually marked Germany or made in W Germany somewhere on them, almost always under the Colt markings & the scabbard throat, comparing my Imperial Colt M7 to an Eickhorn Colt the Colt markings on the right side of the blade on the German examples is a bit smaller & higher on the blade leaving room for the "German" markings, looking at the blade markings I don't think there's room on the US Imperial Colt for the markings so there is a minor difference in the markings. These German M7's were reportedly mfg for Colt (hence the Colt mkgs) for foreign sale. After these these is a bewildering variety of "Eickhorn" M7's most made for commercial sale, some of these have a Colt marking on the blade but it's just a stylized "Colt", no address, or part number.
Some of the info here comes from "American military bayonets of the 20th century" by Cunningham, & some from Mike Humes M7 bayonet internet page (both excellent sources for anybody interested in them!) & a lot from examining actual examples, info from importers & suppliers etc. At this point I believe the bayonets from Apex are in fact correct Imperial Colt contract bayonets from comparing them to my known original Imperial Colt & a few examples of German Colt M7's that I've had access to.
Hope this info is of some help & interest & hopefully I'll be adding all this, pics & more info on the site soon. I've attached a couple pics of a US military M7 crossguard here, these are the standard US military M7 markings (the mfg may vary) w/the exception of the green handled Colt 601 & Imperial mfg Colt mkd bayonets as described above.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 2:00:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Curious...  Compare your top picture with the logo on the blade of mine:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm155/markrsims/100_1150.jpg


WOW! I need to get a set of grips like that, but from where?!?!? Green or brown, very, very cool.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:58:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Who'd a' thought there was so much to learn about  . . . . . bayonets.  Thanks for all the info, guys; I think I have a good idea on what I need to look for now.
Link Posted: 11/6/2009 2:06:37 AM EDT
[#14]
3. I've seen some N-I-W M7s that are dated 1973 at a pretty attractive price. Would these be made in USA? I really am not particular about the specific maker, but you can't tell anything about these, as they are still in the original wrappers.


I have one of these, It's an Imperial, Made in USA
Link Posted: 11/6/2009 3:30:39 AM EDT
[#15]
What about the scabbards?  It appears to me that there are two versions of the M8A1 scabbards as issued with VietNam era bayonets.  One, which I presume is the earlier version, looks just like the M8A1 scabbards as issued with the M6 bayonet for the M14.  It has a smooth fiberglass scabbard of a lighter OD color, and I believe the web hanger is cotton.  Other (later?) M8A1scabbards have a mottled pebblegrain-like texture to them, appear to be some sort of injection molded plastic of a darker OD color, and have nylon web hangers.

I assume that the latter scabbards were issued later, prior to the advent of the black M10 scabbards, but the timeline is unclear.  I think some of these darker OD scabbards may have been late Vietnam issue, but don't know for sure.  Any of you guys know?

-Z
Link Posted: 11/6/2009 3:55:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
3. I've seen some N-I-W M7s that are dated 1973 at a pretty attractive price. Would these be made in USA? I really am not particular about the specific maker, but you can't tell anything about these, as they are still in the original wrappers.


I have one of these, It's an Imperial, Made in USA


I fiigured so.  Actually, I ended up buying an Imperial, unissued-condition, but not N-I-W like those.  This one had a scabbard, though! Still, I wouldn't mind having one of those N-I-W Imperials for the collection.
Link Posted: 11/6/2009 4:31:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
What about the scabbards?  It appears to me that there are two versions of the M8A1 scabbards as issued with VietNam era bayonets.  One, which I presume is the earlier version, looks just like the M8A1 scabbards as issued with the M6 bayonet for the M14.  It has a smooth fiberglass scabbard of a lighter OD color, and I believe the web hanger is cotton.  Other (later?) M8A1scabbards have a mottled pebblegrain-like texture to them, appear to be some sort of injection molded plastic of a darker OD color, and have nylon web hangers.

I assume that the latter scabbards were issued later, prior to the advent of the black M10 scabbards, but the timeline is unclear.  I think some of these darker OD scabbards may have been late Vietnam issue, but don't know for sure.  Any of you guys know?

-Z


According to Bill Ricca's website, the injection molded scabbards are commercial and not military issue in any way. There are 2 types for Viet Nam era, the early ones as you described, and the later ones that are basically the same but with the added metal tip.
Link Posted: 11/6/2009 12:04:26 PM EDT
[#18]
The original military issue/purchase M8A1 scabbards were fiberglass bodies, you can usually even see the "square" fiberglass matting through the paint, originally they came w/just a hole thru the tip for the laces, later they were made & modified w/either a steel "ring" around the hole then a full metal tip both to reinforce the scabbard holes, these will be marked M8A1 on the metal "chape" & usually just below mfg's information, BM, VP etc, the body of the scabbard (usually in the rear) will also have mfg's markings & usually have a lot#, these scabbards were reportedly all manufactured during or just after WWII, the scabbards are believed to have been purchased by the military on seperate contracts, they bought scabbards seperately, the M7 bayonets were also bought seperately, so when BOC (for discussion) manufactured the M7 bayonets they made & delivered only the bayonets NOT bayonets & scabbards as a combination. The only instances I have been able to find where a maker supplied bayonets & scabbards together was the original green handled Colt bayonets for the 601 & these bayonets came w/a scabbard that was similiar to the M8 but w/the metal clip, it seems that if you find an original Colt green handle bayonet that appears to have seen service they're usually in a standard M8A1 scabbard, the few that are found in mint shape all seem to have the original Colt supplied (but sub-contractor supplied) scabbards, so it appears that most of the green handled 601 bayonets that were issued were probably issued w/M8A1 scabbards from military stock. Another M7 that used a slightly different scabbard was the Imperial contract Colt blade marked versions, it appears in this instance also Colt supplied the bayonets & scabbards together, these scabbards were originally reported to be standard GI issue (fiberglass bodies) but painted w/a crinkle type OD paint (which is a distinguishing feature from the normal "early" M8A1 contract scabbards), all the Imperial contract Colt marked M7's I've seen so far though have a crinkle finish plastic scabbard, it's believed the first injection molded plastic M8A1 scabbards were made in the 60's but whether they were made directly for the US military is a question mark. The other Company that supplied bayonets & scabbards as a "unit" (though NOT to the US military) was Eickhorn, as far as I know these used plastic scabbards & almost all are marked "Germany" in one form or another. The final "exception" would be the Ontario M7's, Ontario mfg both M7 bayonets & M10 scabbards for delivery to the military, although it's truthfully unknown at this point if they were sperate contracts (bayonets only, & scabbards only) or if some were delivered as bayonet & scabbard "sets".
Link Posted: 11/10/2009 4:33:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Does anyone know if the Dutch M1 Carbine bayonet grips, which look quite a bit like the brown ones a few replies above this post, will fit on the M7 bayonet?

I might give that a try...
Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top