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Posted: 4/9/2006 5:45:32 PM EDT
First off, I'll apologize in advance for posting this as it involves M4 ramps. And from viewing the specific post, people seem to sigh when it comes to this issue. Anyway, my story starts with my wife buying a surprise gift in the form of an Armalite M15. The weapon was previously owned by a SWAT officer, so I was not sure how many rounds have gone through it.

I took it to the range and found it was having a lot of malfunctions- FTFeed, FTEj and FTEx. After speaking to several knowledgable people, I replaced some parts, but to no avail. I wound up speaking with Armalite who asked if there were M4 ramps on the upper. There wasn't. The rep said M4 ramps were machined into the "newer" uppers. So, I decided to bite the bullet and drop $521 on a new upper from the factory. I figured this would solve the malfunction issues once and for all and I could start fresh.

I received the new upper and verified it had the ramps. However, as shown in the specific post on this website, the barrel extension did not match up with the ramps and there was a sizeable step that potentially would jam the tip of a bullet. I called Armalite and explained what I saw. The rep said they might have to charge me $70 to fix it. I sent the upper back and they "fixed" it without charging me.

The "fix" was a dremel job that took off the anodizing. Additionally, whoever did the job, missed at some point and shaved some metal off an edge of the receiver no where near the ramps. Naturally, I'm pretty disappointed.

Another call to Armalite who essentially said that the "fix' was being done to many of their rifles. I told the rep that I was not satisfied with the "fix." She told me that she would have to search their inventory to find an upper that did not need to be "fixed." I was to call back in a few months and check back with her. I read that as: brush off.

In the meantime, and coincidentally, I attended a Colt LE armorer's course for the M16/AR15. Now I felt like I knew what I was talking about. I called Armalite back and learned the rep I spoke to had left the company without leaving any notes on my case. The new rep pretty much shut me down saying that Armalite makes a "cheaper" product and, at this point, unable to machine matching barrel extensions. He gave me the impression that the "fix" was being performed on the vast majority of rifles leaving the factory. He added that the person who performs the "fixes" does them all day long.

I flat out told him that in order to make me a satisfied customer, I wanted a new upper with no dremeling. He flat out told me it could not be done at this time. He mentioned that Armalite sells products to the US military. I called him on that and said that if the military saw their "fix," they would be fined big time. So ended my call to Armalite and my satisfaction/confidence with the company. They won't be hearing from me or anyone, or LE agency for that matter, that will hear me out.

If word-of-mouth is still the best way to advertise, Armalite- watch out. End rant.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:59:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mutz:
First off, I'll apologize in advance for posting this as it involves M4 ramps. And from viewing the specific post, people seem to sigh when it comes to this issue. Anyway, my story starts with my wife buying a surprise gift in the form of an Armalite M15. The weapon was previously owned by a SWAT officer, so I was not sure how many rounds have gone through it.

I took it to the range and found it was having a lot of malfunctions- FTFeed, FTEj and FTEx. After speaking to several knowledgable people, I replaced some parts, but to no avail. I wound up speaking with Armalite who asked if there were M4 ramps on the upper. There wasn't. The rep said M4 ramps were machined into the "newer" uppers. So, I decided to bite the bullet and drop $521 on a new upper from the factory. I figured this would solve the malfunction issues once and for all and I could start fresh.

I received the new upper and verified it had the ramps. However, as shown in the specific post on this website, the barrel extension did not match up with the ramps and there was a sizeable step that potentially would jam the tip of a bullet. I called Armalite and explained what I saw. The rep said they might have to charge me $70 to fix it. I sent the upper back and they "fixed" it without charging me.

The "fix" was a dremel job that took off the anodizing. Additionally, whoever did the job, missed at some point and shaved some metal off an edge of the receiver no where near the ramps. Naturally, I'm pretty disappointed.

Another call to Armalite who essentially said that the "fix' was being done to many of their rifles. I told the rep that I was not satisfied with the "fix." She told me that she would have to search their inventory to find an upper that did not need to be "fixed." I was to call back in a few months and check back with her. I read that as: brush off.

In the meantime, and coincidentally, I attended a Colt LE armorer's course for the M16/AR15. Now I felt like I knew what I was talking about. I called Armalite back and learned the rep I spoke to had left the company without leaving any notes on my case. The new rep pretty much shut me down saying that Armalite makes a "cheaper" product and, at this point, unable to machine matching barrel extensions. He gave me the impression that the "fix" was being performed on the vast majority of rifles leaving the factory. He added that the person who performs the "fixes" does them all day long.

I flat out told him that in order to make me a satisfied customer, I wanted a new upper with no dremeling. He flat out told me it could not be done at this time. He mentioned that Armalite sells products to the US military. I called him on that and said that if the military saw their "fix," they would be fined big time. So ended my call to Armalite and my satisfaction/confidence with the company. They won't be hearing from me or anyone, or LE agency for that matter, that will hear me out.

If word-of-mouth is still the best way to advertise, Armalite- watch out. End rant.



Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:02:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 6:03:20 PM EDT by wildearp]
...........post 10.

Poster is in CA. His wife bought him an AR15. Looks like he is going to go to jail, wife too.

Moderator????
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:04:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:11:07 PM EDT
so insted of having the original upper sent in for an upgraded and fixed for 60 dollars, you paid for a brand new upper? that makes no sense,

as for your new upper, does it work? if it does shoot it, if it doesnt send it back

from all my personal expierience with armlite, I can honeslty say that this is not normal, generaly speaking, unless you are a total prick to them, they will bend over backword to take care of you.



Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:11:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:

Originally Posted By wildearp:
...........post 10.

Poster is in CA. His wife bought him an AR15. Looks like he is going to go to jail, wife too, and possibly and ex-swat officer.

Moderator????



So, even FNG's have problems.



I would say so. With very few exceptions, CA, USA still has bannination on Armalite AR15 rifles.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:13:20 PM EDT
no it apears that he may be a LEO and above the law
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:36:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:21:23 PM EDT
I had one of the missmatched uppers you describe and I sent mine in to Armalite to be fixed. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Jennifer, who is no longer there, before during and after shipping my upper back and it getting fixed. All new rifles and when an upper gets repaired either by making "hand" machining adjustments or by replacing parts, it gets thoroughly tested before leaving the factory. They video tape the action and the round ejection with a high speed camera. When it ships out, they have a very high confidence that it is functioning 100% and will not cause further problems. I was impressed with the service. The problem that many people have is that cosmetics takes a back seat. The ramps are not always appealing to the eye, but they function fine. Most of the missmatched rifles are never serviced as the owners do not notice the cosmetic defect and it never causes a single miss feed.
The new rifles being shipped are supposed to have this problem corrected, but there are many rifles still out there in distributors' warehouses with the missmatch problem.
I personally have no problem buying another new Armalite. I currently own 2 and have been 100% satisfied with their functioning, I understand why others would not find the cosmetic defects acceptable though.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:29:00 PM EDT
its apparent that he is an LEO, but regardless of what the state allows leos to use, his wife surprising him with a gift AR15 from another officer is a big no no in Cali with the state AWB, remember no transfers/prebans, and unless she is a LEO and purchased it as an agency purchase he is not going to be able to legally procure it.


or maybe they are not in Ca,

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:56:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 8:59:55 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]
IF you are a LEO and this is for your job, then why aren't you talking to your armorer instead of calling direct.

If you bought this as a "civie" I hope you don't go to jail. "Judge Dread- I AM THE LAW"


It sound like you initially talled to jen, which has left Armalite- She rocked!!!!

If you are LEO, why not call/email the LE rep at Armalite.

Sounds all like BS, Armalite has the best customer service of all the manufactures IMO

If you were as a whiney bitch as you sound now, I would have told you to pound sound also



ETA if you took the armorers couse and you couldnt fix the 1st upper-sounds like you need to get your monay back "Nelson-HAHA"
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:32:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:29:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:29:40 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By mutz:
He mentioned that Armalite sells products to the US military. I called him on that and said that if the military saw their "fix," they would be fined big time.




He was probably just blowing smoke up your ass, since I don't believe they supply ANY rifles to the military.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:54:00 AM EDT
Man, you are an idiot. Should have fixed your old upper and not bought a new one.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:17:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:26:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:28:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:29:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nick13:
Man, you are an idiot. Should have fixed your old upper and not bought a new one.



You still working at ARMALITE Nick? If so, hopefully you're not anywhere near the customer service department.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:48:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By numbers:

Originally Posted By nick13:
Man, you are an idiot. Should have fixed your old upper and not bought a new one.



You still working at ARMALITE Nick? If so, hopefully you're not anywhere near the customer service department.



Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:19:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By numbers:

Originally Posted By nick13:
Man, you are an idiot. Should have fixed your old upper and not bought a new one.



You still working at ARMALITE Nick? If so, hopefully you're not anywhere near the customer service department.



Nick's been gone awhile from Armalite. When he left I immediately thought "Oh shit, now who's going to fix the problems". Nick was the guy that could get things done no matter what anybody else at Armalite said. Luckily he was the contact point I dealt with.

I don't know who the "go to" person is now, hopefully they've found somebody else that can make decisions and get things done.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:23:04 PM EDT
Perhaps Armalite and RRA should merge, they could then buy dremel stones in vast bulk quantity.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:26:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 5:27:43 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
You guys with a few posts under your belt are really far too quick to call some one out on their post count. All in all, there is far too little factual info in this thread to be making the kind of accusations some of you have been. Take it easy.



We are too quick, but you fully agree there is little factual information. So, who are you arguing with, everybody???

Have another donut.....
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:30:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HP40:
Perhaps Armalite and RRA should merge, they could then buy dremel stones in vast bulk quantity.


Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:45:38 PM EDT
Maybe posting this in the industury forum would have allowed for some feedback from Armalite.

I have assembled countless AR type firearms over the years & have actually built 2 from my own recievers. Never in all the years have I encountered problems to the extent that I have witnessed here on AR15.com.

I would have recommended packing the whole firearm up & letting Armalite give it a clean bull of health.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:05:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HP40:
Perhaps Armalite and RRA should merge, they could then buy dremel stones in vast bulk quantity.



Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:49:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 6:54:35 PM EDT by Glockfan]
I will tell you one thing the poster is no troll he is just sharing what happened. the Trolls are the ones who jumped all over him calling him a troll. He has a right to express his displeasure. Personally my experience with Armalites customer service has been hot and cold. The first rep sucked lied to me. The good experience was the sales manager made it right. Also the poster has to be leo to get into Colts armorer school. Sounds like we have a few jerks here that jump on anyone who says anything bad about their faviorate brand. In Armalites defense I would not care if the feed lips were dremeled or not so long as they worked. I am more of a function over form guy.
Pat
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 7:44:30 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:54:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:56:53 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
The Colt armorers course does not address cutting feedramps into his upper, nor does it talk about how to fix problems that are inherent to weapons other than Colt. Colt uses feedramps, Armalite didn't, and then they handcut them, the Colt school answer is that you shouldn't have bought that Armalite.

Colt doesn't gear their course towards all AR15s, its geared towards Colt, and its made pretty clear in the course that they feel everything else is second rate, and not suitable for duty. The armorer courses that I've been through by other companies all rate their products the same way.



I was refering to the 1st upper.

What is this course for then?

I dont understand the highlighted part. You mean colt doesnt make uppers that won't run. I know they are not perfect.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:27:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
The Colt armorers course does not address cutting feedramps into his upper, nor does it talk about how to fix problems that are inherent to weapons other than Colt. Colt uses feedramps, Armalite didn't, and then they handcut them, the Colt school answer is that you shouldn't have bought that Armalite.

Colt doesn't gear their course towards all AR15s, its geared towards Colt, and its made pretty clear in the course that they feel everything else is second rate, and not suitable for duty. The armorer courses that I've been through by other companies all rate their products the same way.



I was refering to the 1st upper.

What is this course for then?

I dont understand the highlighted part. You mean colt doesnt make uppers that won't run. I know they are not perfect.



Nothing is perfect but Colt is the best going.
Pat
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:00:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By mutz:
He mentioned that Armalite sells products to the US military. I called him on that and said that if the military saw their "fix," they would be fined big time.




He was probably just blowing smoke up your ass, since I don't believe they supply ANY rifles to the military.




There are AR10s in service right now with a few different groups, but if he meant AR15/M16s, I've not heard of any.



I was thinking that too....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:42:06 AM EDT
I had the same problem with an AR-10 carbine I bought two years ago.

It has "M4 feedramps" that are milled into the upper receiver before it was anodized. Those feedramps in the upper were deeper than the feedramps in the barrel extension, leaving a ledge where the two parts meet.

I just dremelled the feedramps in the extension untill the ledge (and the anodizing) was gone.

It's a shitty way to fix the problem, but I guess I did as well as the factory would have, and I saved on postage. The entire upper is pretty much a piece of shit anyway. The muzzle brake is pressed on, which is not how the upper was represented to me, and the fibre-quad handguards are crooked, with no way to straighten.

It's not an upper Mark Westrom would be proud to own.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:57:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockfan:
I will tell you one thing the poster is no troll...........
Pat



And just how would you know ??

I'll answer that; you wouldn't know cause you couldn't know.

5sub
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:07:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:

Originally Posted By wildearp:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
You guys with a few posts under your belt are really far too quick to call some one out on their post count. All in all, there is far too little factual info in this thread to be making the kind of accusations some of you have been. Take it easy.



We are too quick, but you fully agree there is little factual information. So, who are you arguing with, everybody???

Have another donut.....



Hmm, you are the one, who in the SECOND POST, asked for a moderator. So, here I am.

Im arguing with people on the site who think ones post count has something to do with what they know. Im arguing with people who feel like its ok to jump on some ones case because they are new to the board and maybe didnt, in their first post to the thread, include all the exact info they should have to get this figured out exactly. Im arguing with the people who look and see he is from CA and just presume he cant be legit because people in CA cant buy AR style weapons. Im arguing with type of people who might ask you to have your wooden horse ride your 10 gallon hat, cowboy action shooting ass back to the ranch. The people who know very little about whats actually going on and who take that very little bit of inforamtion and decide they have most everything figured out.

You see? Im arguing with everyone who is so ready to point a finger instead of maybe asking for a little more info and helping a guy out. The type of people who make this site harder to deal with every day. The type of people who make this a great place for ass holes who like to argue, and a waste of time for people who may just be an asset to the site. Which are you?



new-arguy,
this MUTz has one post in 3 months and he finds AR Discussion instead of the Industry Forum to ask for help.

22 months ago, a little group of 8 or 9 or so (maybe even one guy with multiple accounts but I don't think so) savaged ArmaLite for months while under protection. I hope we're not heading back to that bullshit again.

As a general rule bashers come to AR-15 Discussion to bash and go to Industry Forums to seek factory help.


5sub
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Its pretty clear he is LE, I don't see an issue with his complaint, and I wouldn't be real happy either if I had that problem.

mutz- Are you looking at using this for duty?


m4hk33- Not above the law, as I believe CA allows for LE to still use the AR15 for duty, however, I'm not a CA LEO, so someone else can feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.



He cant just go out and buy a rifle, or have his wife buy him a rifle. He has to have a letter from his department etc.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:09:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Its pretty clear he is LE, I don't see an issue with his complaint, and I wouldn't be real happy either if I had that problem.

mutz- Are you looking at using this for duty?


m4hk33- Not above the law, as I believe CA allows for LE to still use the AR15 for duty, however, I'm not a CA LEO, so someone else can feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.



He cant just go out and buy a rifle, or have his wife buy him a rifle. He has to have a letter from his department etc.


+1
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:15:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:22:47 AM EDT
I think it is darn funny how some of you equate M16/AR knowledge with the amount of post you have. Sure some of you with a lot of posts do know what you are talking about, and some of you don't. I have a low post count, but I assure you I have extensive time with the M16/AR rifles back to 1980 when I enlisted in the U.S. Army Infantry. I have gleaned some good knowledge from some of you, but some of you are just blowhards and wannabe's and rude as hell. That man with the faulty Armalite was just blowing off steam, not trying to offend anyone. How about just trying to help instead of tearing him down. I have Bushmasters and RRA's, both fine weapons in my opinion, but some people think their junk. I'm not going to be offended by that, I know what works for me.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:26:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 9:47:49 AM EDT by Glockfan]

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By Glockfan:
I will tell you one thing the poster is no troll...........
Pat



And just how would you know ??

I'll answer that; you wouldn't know cause you couldn't know.

5sub



Because his post was not troll behavior rather he was sharing his own experience and opinion.
What I do know is that you and a few others jump down everyones throat who has anything bad to say about Armalite. That is not professional behavior and its no credit to Armalite to have wild dogs loose on the board.
Pat
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:32:32 AM EDT
I guess I had better tag a bunch of threads to get my post count up so people will take me seriously. I will know everything if I type Tag a bunch of times...
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:35:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 12:11:06 PM EDT by Y4145]
Dremeled feed ramps look like shit when they don't match the barrel extension and receiver.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:36:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPWORF:
I guess I had better tag a bunch of threads to get my post count up so people will take me seriously. I will know everything if I type Tag a bunch of times...



Yeah, let's go post a bunch of "+1" and "tag" and we'll be good in no time.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:39:17 AM EDT
I wouldn't be happy with that quality of work

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:12:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
I wouldn't be happy with that quality of work




Or the service.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:27:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Y4145:
Or the service.



Regarding the service, the upper was made functional and reliable. His complaint was with aesthetics. The last answer he quoted was to the effect that they would try and find a "perfect" upper for him but that it may take some time.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:01:41 PM EDT
I purchased one of the early AR10A2 rifles. The rifled worked excellent. No malfunctions. But I noticed that the fired cartidge cases were hitting me in the left hand. The cartidge cases were ejecting at 1:00. I spoke wth ArmaLite and I delevered the rifle to the factory myself in IL. Marke Westrom looked at it and had it placed on a high speed video camenra and found that the system was working too fast so the gas port needed to be modified to slow the action down. Once the cyclic rate slowed down the cartridge case ejection pattern would change and my problem would go away.
I received the rifle back and sure enough my problem was gone. To my pleasure, feed ramps were machined into my upper receiver and barrel extension and a new extractor assembly was installed. This was top notch service. I have been very happy. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:05:53 PM EDT
mutz-

Please IM us an email or phone number and we can try to resolve this to your satisfaction. We apologize for the inconvenience.

ArmaLite Sales
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:09:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmaLiteSales:
mutz-

Please IM us an email or phone number and we can try to resolve this to your satisfaction. We apologize for the inconvenience.

ArmaLite Sales



Good deal!



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:02:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Y4145:

Originally Posted By SPWORF:
I guess I had better tag a bunch of threads to get my post count up so people will take me seriously. I will know everything if I type Tag a bunch of times...



Yeah, let's go post a bunch of "+1" and "tag" and we'll be good in no time.



Both of you- I for one am not out to argue with or harass guys with low post counts. I do remember what my post count was a few thousand ago and understand you don't start with several K.

What you do have to understand is there is some sort of correlation between post count and time spent here and when I started I did a lot more reading than posting so even with 10 posts I had probably read 100 entire threads. Obviously I eventually asked more and more questions and then just started making comments.

But, the word n00b is around for a reason and if you have 5 posts and want to get into a pissing match with someone who has 10k, you probably won't walk away feeling like a winner. Chances are they have a little more up to date or current knowledge than you do and

FYI- typing "TAG" will get you two nowhere without a membership...

This thread reminds me of the one I read earlier about a guy who just spent $1200 on a new ACOG TA31RCO and it was all scuffed up. Everyone kept telling him it was a "tool" for a "battle rifle" and to quit acting like a baby. My response is "yeah, we know your answer already so keep it to yourself."

If you can't add anything to this thread, just keep your keep your flytrap shut.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:18:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:01:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:02:48 PM EDT by boltcatch]
Well figure out if you, RRA, and anyone else who seems to have trouble with barrel extensions can manage to get some that match their uppers. If not, let us know so we can buy stock in Dremel.

Seriously, though, sometimes stuff just doesn't match up right. I had an upper issue where I got several bad FSB's in a row. Maybe there has been a bad batch of barrel extensions going around or something.

People say buy A, B, C, or R for a reason, I'm sure it'll get sorted out.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:44:01 PM EDT
I can't stand the banter. I had a couple of issues with my Armalite - talked to the factory (nicely), sent it in and they took care of it and sent it back no cost / pronto ! I wish I could get customer service like this at most of the places I do business at.

My advice is next time you have an issue - post it before you spend a lot of money and work yourself up into a non-workable solution - a lot of the guys (& gals) on this board have tons of knowledge and are willing to share it.

Take care - Northbilly
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