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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/29/2004 8:14:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 6:53:14 PM EST by GiggleSmith]
I'll be mailing this out Monday, October 4.

Except the missing the date and the changing the name, this is exactly what I'm sending. Any Suggestions or corrections?

BATFE
NFA Branch
Room 5300
650 Mass. Ave. NW
Washington DC 20226


Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am planning to build a Short Barreled Rifle a few months from now. For very obvious reasons I am being very careful about filling out my BATFE Form 1. But there a few areas where I have received answers which are contradictory or illogical.

To start with, I plan to register an AR15 Lower receiver itself as the SBR. To quote 4i on the Form 1, “State why you intend to make firearm.” I want a rifle that I can shoot with Rifle calibers outdoors and Pistol calibers indoors.

This means that I have to list more than one caliber in box 4c. I have no problems with that. What I need to know there is, can I enter “Multiple” in box 4c? I’ve seen photographs of lowers where the word “Multiple” is engraved on the firearm.

And that brings me to another set of points, boxes 4e and 4f. I want to register just the lower receiver; the lengths of the barrels should be irrelevant. My first barrel length is going to be 11½ inches long. But I also plan to buy an integral suppressor for the SBR later on. This brings up both caliber and length questions. The caliber for the Integral Suppressor is 9 x 19. The barrel length is around six inches in length. And I have seen AR15 Uppers that have barrel lengths of only four inches. So what do I put into box 4f, “Overall”? Each and every time I switch the upper receiver, the “Overall” length changes. I believe the answer for what I’m planning should be the actual length of the receiver.

I have read of people who have put “<16 inches” in 4e, and put”<26 inches” in 4f. They also claim to have received approved Form 1’s.

To summarize:
In box 4c, can I put “Multiple”, or do I have to list every possible caliber?
In box 4e, can I put either “Multiple” or “<16 inches”? Or what do I put there?
In box 4f, can I put the length of the Lower Receiver itself or do I have to include an upper receiver? Or can I write “<26 inches?”

Yours truly,

Giggle (FrothingAtTheMouth) Smith
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 8:16:21 PM EST
... tagged
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:11:29 PM EST
Took me 7 months to get a response once to a question once. And the response I finally got did not answer it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:43:58 PM EST
YOU CAN USE DIFFERENT CALIBERS . BUT IF THE GUN IS CHANGED TO THAT CALIBER FOR GOOD YOU WOULD NEED TO UPDATE ATF. JUST AS HK SEARS CAN BE USED IN DIFFERENT CALIBER GUNS . SOME SEARS ARE REGISTERED IN 1 CALIBER AND OTHER IN 3 OR 4 CALIBER BUT ALL SEARS CAN BE USED IN DIFFERENT GUNS WITH DIFFFERENT CALIBERS . UNLESS THE SEAR IS MARRIED. AS FOR THE SHORT BARRELED AR15
IT OKAY TO HAVE MORE THAN 1 LENGTH BARREL BUT IF YOU OWN ANY OTHER AR15S THAT ARE NOT SHORT BARRELED RIFLES OR MACHINE GUNS OR AOWS OR PISTOL RECVR THEIR COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH AND UNREGISTERED SHORT BARRELED AR15
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:51:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:52:21 PM EST
I wrote "less than 16" and "less than 28" in the boxes on my form. It was approved.

It would be nice (I hope at least) to get an answer from the TECHNICAL BRANCH (that's where you're sending this right?).
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:53:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:07:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garryowen:



Colt... Ken is that you? Turn off the cap-lock big guy


Wow, good eye!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:24:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:31:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:38:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By COLT:
YOU CAN USE DIFFERENT CALIBERS . BUT IF THE GUN IS CHANGED TO THAT CALIBER FOR GOOD YOU WOULD NEED TO UPDATE ATF. JUST AS HK SEARS CAN BE USED IN DIFFERENT CALIBER GUNS . SOME SEARS ARE REGISTERED IN 1 CALIBER AND OTHER IN 3 OR 4 CALIBER BUT ALL SEARS CAN BE USED IN DIFFERENT GUNS WITH DIFFFERENT CALIBERS . UNLESS THE SEAR IS MARRIED. AS FOR THE SHORT BARRELED AR15
IT OKAY TO HAVE MORE THAN 1 LENGTH BARREL BUT IF YOU OWN ANY OTHER AR15S THAT ARE NOT SHORT BARRELED RIFLES OR MACHINE GUNS OR AOWS OR PISTOL RECVR THEIR COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH AND UNREGISTERED SHORT BARRELED AR15



So if you have any other AR's you have to register them all as SBR's because you could possibly mate the short upper to the others. Does anyone really pay $200 for each lower? Seems kinda retarded, but that doesn't stop the BATF I know.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:33:31 AM EST
Put the F&*%ing letter in the trash can.

DO NOT F^%K it up for the rest of us.

Fill it out in a simple fashion and be done with it.

Section 4 --

Short barreled rifle
223
11.5" for barrel
OAL for your chosen stock
Serial # as it appear on the lower.

TOO SIMPLE!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:05:13 AM EST
YOU JUST DON'T TO SHOW THAT THEIR WAS POSSIBLE INTENT ON BUILDING ANOTHER SBR THE ATF COULD RULE YOU HAVE ANOTHER SBR UNREGISTERED IF YOU HAVE 2 UPPER LESS THAN 16 INCHES AN OWN ANY OTHER AR15 RECVRS THIS COULD BE A CAUGHT 22 IF YOU ONLY OWN 1 AR15 REGISTERED SBR YOU COULD HAVE MULTIPLE BARRELS THE TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:14:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Put the F&*%ing letter in the trash can.

DO NOT F^%K it up for the rest of us.

Fill it out in a simple fashion and be done with it.



I agree. Everytime someone starts a sentence with "I'm writing a letter to the BATFE Tech Branch..." it causes me to cringe.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:30:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 8:31:33 AM EST by NYPatriot]

Every time someone starts a sentence with "I'm writing a letter to the BATFE Tech Branch..." it causes me to cringe.


Agreed!

Nothing good can ever come from writing the BATFE! All you are doing is inviting them to interpret the law in the most restrictive way possible, which history has shown is their modus operandi.


My advice is to let sleeping dogs lie. If a particular way of filling out these forums has worked without incident for ten's of thousands of people, why rock the boat?!?!?!

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:36:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:42:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 8:46:32 AM EST by Colt_SBR]
Topic hi-jack.

COLT
Member
Joined :: September 2004
Post Number :: 9

AZ, USA

If you insist on not listening about the CAP LOCK, could you please change you name. It's too close to mine. You are pissing off the masses. I'm able to do that very well by myself. I dont' need any help.

GiggleSmith. Sorry I hi-jacked your topic. I had to say that.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:52:53 AM EST
lower case it will be
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:56:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 8:59:39 AM EST by TheRedGoat]
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:02:18 AM EST
hey i'm just here to have fun and burn up the day while i'm working // remember lifes short just enjoy
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:02:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 9:02:58 AM EST by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By COLT:
YOU JUST DON'T TO SHOW THAT THEIR WAS POSSIBLE INTENT ON BUILDING ANOTHER SBR THE ATF COULD RULE YOU HAVE ANOTHER SBR UNREGISTERED IF YOU HAVE 2 UPPER LESS THAN 16 INCHES AN OWN ANY OTHER AR15 RECVRS THIS COULD BE A CAUGHT 22 IF YOU ONLY OWN 1 AR15 REGISTERED SBR YOU COULD HAVE MULTIPLE BARRELS THE TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION



There are several issues you might like to address.

1.) punctuation keys are located to the right of the 'M' and 'L' keys.

2.) If that is not possible it might help to use capitol letters and spacing at the start of each sentence instead of all the way through.

I can't make heads or tails of what you just said there and trying is giving me a headache. Anyone want to translate that quote to english?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:08:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:12:32 AM EST
Okay
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:34:40 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:49:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 9:50:05 AM EST by Colt_SBR]
On my Form 1 I put,

Less than 16" for barrel length.
Less than 26" for over all length.
and Collectable / Recreation for intended use of the SBR.

For the caliber I only put down .223. I've been told you can list any/all calibers you intend to use. Or send a letter to BATF after you receive your SBR paperwork if you want to purchase other upper calibers.

I'm sure you will enjoy your SBR when you get approved.

COLT
Member
Joined :: September 2004
Post Number :: 15

AZ, USA
welcome.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:55:53 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:27:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Every time someone starts a sentence with "I'm writing a letter to the BATFE Tech Branch..." it causes me to cringe.


Agreed!

Nothing good can ever come from writing the BATFE! All you are doing is inviting them to interpret the law in the most restrictive way possible, which history has shown is their modus operandi.


My advice is to let sleeping dogs lie. If a particular way of filling out these forums has worked without incident for ten's of thousands of people, why rock the boat?!?!?!




Yup +1. That's what happened when someone (Im not naming names) asked the ATF about Beta feed towers and modifying pre-existing hi cap mags.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:05:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 9:06:51 PM EST by NYPatriot]
So what is the verdict GiggleSmith... are you still going to send in that silly letter???

Please say the answer is NO my friend.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 9:55:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Put the F&*%ing letter in the trash can.

DO NOT F^%K it up for the rest of us.

Fill it out in a simple fashion and be done with it.

Section 4 --

Short barreled rifle
223
11.5" for barrel
OAL for your chosen stock
Serial # as it appear on the lower.

TOO SIMPLE!




Amen Brother!!
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:00:33 PM EST
After al the reading I’ve done plus other assorted research…

I decided NOT to send the letter. Instead when I fill out my Form 1;

I’ll be entering “Multiple”,
”<16 inches” or “Under 16 Inches”
“<26 inches” or “Under 26 Inches”


Thanks to all who opened their mouths and told me of their experiences. Of course when I send the Form in and it doesn’t get approved I Shall Be Very Unhappy.
But I’ll take the risk.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:37:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
After al the reading I’ve done plus other assorted research…

I decided NOT to send the letter. Instead when I fill out my Form 1;

I’ll be entering “Multiple”,
”<16 inches” or “Under 16 Inches”
“<26 inches” or “Under 26 Inches”


Thanks to all who opened their mouths and told me of their experiences. Of course when I send the Form in and it doesn’t get approved I Shall Be Very Unhappy.
But I’ll take the risk.




THANK YOU
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:52:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:56:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
After al the reading I’ve done plus other assorted research…

I decided NOT to send the letter. Instead when I fill out my Form 1;

I’ll be entering “Multiple”,
”<16 inches” or “Under 16 Inches”
“<26 inches” or “Under 26 Inches”


Thanks to all who opened their mouths and told me of their experiences. Of course when I send the Form in and it doesn’t get approved I Shall Be Very Unhappy.
But I’ll take the risk.



And when it does get approved? What do we get?

TRG



a freaking cookie. Why is it always "what do we get" with you????

TXL
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:10:38 AM EST
tagged for later
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:19:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:17:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
After al the reading I’ve done plus other assorted research…

I decided NOT to send the letter. Instead when I fill out my Form 1;

I’ll be entering “Multiple”,
”<16 inches” or “Under 16 Inches”
“<26 inches” or “Under 26 Inches”

Thanks to all who opened their mouths and told me of their experiences. Of course when I send the Form in and it doesn’t get approved I Shall Be Very Unhappy.
But I’ll take the risk.


And when it does get approved? What do we get?
TRG


a freaking cookie. Why is it always "what do we get" with you????
TXL


Really? Can you make it chocolate chip?
TRG

Ask Crapgame. I'd love to know what kind of cookie he gave Fisher.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:39:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
After al the reading I’ve done plus other assorted research…

I decided NOT to send the letter. Instead when I fill out my Form 1;

I’ll be entering “Multiple”,
”<16 inches” or “Under 16 Inches”
“<26 inches” or “Under 26 Inches”


Thanks to all who opened their mouths and told me of their experiences. Of course when I send the Form in and it doesn’t get approved I Shall Be Very Unhappy.
But I’ll take the risk.



And when it does get approved? What do we get?

TRG



a freaking cookie. Why is it always "what do we get" with you????

TXL



Really? Can you make it chocolate chip?

TRG



Oh, it will have chips in it alright, chocolate, yeah, thats what it will be.

Making a special batch for you TRG.

TXL
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:51:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By COLT:
YOU JUST DON'T TO SHOW THAT THEIR WAS POSSIBLE INTENT ON BUILDING ANOTHER SBR THE ATF COULD RULE YOU HAVE ANOTHER SBR UNREGISTERED IF YOU HAVE 2 UPPER LESS THAN 16 INCHES AN OWN ANY OTHER AR15 RECVRS THIS COULD BE A CAUGHT 22 IF YOU ONLY OWN 1 AR15 REGISTERED SBR YOU COULD HAVE MULTIPLE BARRELS THE TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION



WHAT WAS THAT COLT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
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