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Posted: 8/6/2007 9:03:26 PM EDT
I received a UPS shipment of ammo today. The one box held half the order of 1000 rds of .40 and 300 rds of .223 and was 58 pounds just as the company's shipping label stated. The other box should have been identical.

The other box was triple wrapped with tape, had no visible sign of damage, was only 42 pounds, and no invoice was contained inside either, and it was missing 300 rds of .223. UPS and the shipper have begun an investigation. I hope someone goes to jail for this.

I would mention the name of the company but I don't think it matters and I don't suspect at all that it's their fault in short shipping to me. They still have plenty of stock shown online and I've dealth with them a halfdozen times before. They were right on it in returning my call and said that while they get some boxes back from the "Samsonite Gorilla" as undeliverable, I'm not the first case of missing ammo from a box. They said I'll likely be contacted by UPS for investigators to look at the boxes. I told him the $200 is important, but this box was neatly opened and sealed.

MORAL OF STORY: Open the box immediately and don't stuff it on the shelf. My daughter signed for this before I got home.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/6/2007 10:45:14 PM EDT
Great..Along with the "created" shortages IMO and excessively high prices of ammo these days now we have to worry about UPS who pay the employees probably twenty bucks or more an hour to load and sort robbing us some more.
I got an idea..Hire people who are citizens,speak english and are honest and to keep them that way take the Haz Mat fees they rip us off for on powder and primer shipments and install video security and guards to catch and prosecute them and put them away for a long time.
Another thing that just may prompt them to watch and catch the thieves they employ is to open the packages you recieve and count the goods to make sure they are all there while the driver waits for you.That will get their attention as then he may be able to make maybe ten or fifteen stops a day and create new driving jobs.
Reading this ammo theft post is giving me a real; bad case of the pissed off and I am going to begin the next ammo shipment to inspect while he is on my doorstep.
I really cannot see an easy answer to protect yourself except to order full factory sealed cases with lots of factory installed security tape ect that you refuse if broken.
Link Posted: 8/6/2007 11:30:21 PM EDT
I work at UPS, people do steal stuff. Most times they are caught, we have to go through several metal detectors going in and out of our facility. Most likely the culprit was caught, and if so he will be fired and prosecuted. But if they did catch him it may take a week to tie him to the shipment, I have seen millions of rounds of ammo go through us but I was never dumb enough to try and steal. Good luck w/ trying to get is past. If you can ask where the shipment was damaged, when a shipment is damaged it is supposed to be logged. Plus if damage is the case you are suposed to get the value of the damaged goods back, submit a claim.
Link Posted: 8/6/2007 11:32:03 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
Great..Along with the "created" shortages IMO and excessively high prices of ammo these days now we have to worry about UPS who pay the employees probably twenty bucks or more an hour to load and sort robbing us some more.
I got an idea..Hire people who are citizens,speak english and are honest and to keep them that way take the Haz Mat fees they rip us off for on powder and primer shipments and install video security and guards to catch and prosecute them and put them away for a long time.
Another thing that just may prompt them to watch and catch the thieves they employ is to open the packages you recieve and count the goods to make sure they are all there while the driver waits for you.That will get their attention as then he may be able to make maybe ten or fifteen stops a day and create new driving jobs.
Reading this ammo theft post is giving me a real; bad case of the pissed off and I am going to begin the next ammo shipment to inspect while he is on my doorstep.
I really cannot see an easy answer to protect yourself except to order full factory sealed cases with lots of factory installed security tape ect that you refuse if broken.


And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 12:28:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skiggy22:
I work at UPS, people do steal stuff. Most times they are caught, we have to go through several metal detectors going in and out of our facility. Most likely the culprit was caught, and if so he will be fired and prosecuted. But if they did catch him it may take a week to tie him to the shipment, I have seen millions of rounds of ammo go through us but I was never dumb enough to try and steal. Good luck w/ trying to get is past. If you can ask where the shipment was damaged, when a shipment is damaged it is supposed to be logged. Plus if damage is the case you are suposed to get the value of the damaged goods back, submit a claim.


There was absolutely no damage to the box. I brought them both quickly into my work area [wife doesn't know about this credit card] and figured the weights were different just due to how they packed them. Then I opened and counted 30 boxes of 20 rounds packed around a 7.62 metal can holding 1000 rd's of reloaded .40. The other box was triple or quadruple wrapped without a mark of damage on it and had the other can of 1000 .40 reloads. The tip off is that there is no invoice anywhere. I thought I might have ordered 600 rds, but that made no sense so I came upstairs to check my order online. I ordered 1200 rds because I shot 200 rds last time out and decided to have an even number of rounds.

I hope the guy gets jailed for "felony stupid!"

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 1:16:15 AM EDT

And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour


I was paid the same in 1989 in FTW @ Northside HUB for Twilight Unload. Made a buck more an hour for Sort Isle or Irregs if you could pass the STAR zip code test. Pretty sad that its the same pay all these years later. In 1989 that was great money and we took care of the job....back in the day you could leave your wallet in the hub on the time clock and it would sit there overnight until you came back to get it. We had metal detectors in those days too but I cant remember ever hearing about routine theft - sure there was always 'that one guy' about once a year but it was very rare.

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 1:21:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 1:36:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2007 1:54:54 AM EDT by Walsh]

Originally Posted By ROMAD-556:

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right


Thanks...the vendor already said they'd make good on it. I've dealt with them before and I said to the guy that I hope he knows I would not go filing a report like this and risk some big investigation [this would be filing a false police report in the final analysis, I think] and risk losing my weapons permit. He responded that he didn't doubt me at all and that this happens far more often than he cared to admit. He said a good deal of the time the boxes arrive at the customer's and he can't fathom how they could not have been purposely treated in the worst way to end up in the shape of photos and returns he has seen.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 3:10:31 AM EDT
I've had two ammo related issues with UPS over the years. Story #1, Robbed by UPS corporate policy. I was having two rare and valuable collector cartridges shipped to me and the box was severly damaged in transit. My shipper packs very well, so the box had to have been mangled. What happened is that UPS contacted me and said that the box was damaged and the contents (two cartridges) came out. They said that they would pay the insurance value of the items since it was their fault that the box was damaged. I asked if the contents were intact and undamaged and they said yes. I asked them to just send me the contents. They said they could not, since they were paying a claim, the contents became their property. I politely explained to them that they were being idiots, that the cartridges were fine and of no use to them. No dice. I got my money back, the seller kept his money and we were both out two collector cartridges. Story two, Robbed by a UPS employee. I sent a box of collector cartridges to a customer. He received an undamaged, sealed box of nothing but packing peanuts and an invoice. He thought I simply forgot to put the cartridges in the box to begin with. He described the box, contents, label and packing tape exactly as I had sent it.
Upon closer examination, he saw that the tape on the bottom was two layers thick. Someone at UPS had taken the time to cleanly cut the tape and reseal the box with identical tape. Claim was paid but, again, my customer and I were out the collector cartridges. Moral of this story: never use clear packing tape. It is too easy to cover up. This is actually what the UPS investigator told me!

D.D.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 3:18:20 AM EDT
sign of the times...

reminds me of last week's thread about the ARF Commer who was told by a UPS counter clerk his package needed a "forty dollar" cash "surcharge!!! Puzzled, he walked away to another UPS who shipped it sans the bogus "surcharge."

easy way for a UPS clerk to make some "walkin-around-money" off the books.

Link Posted: 8/7/2007 4:38:21 AM EDT
I had a couple of cases of Hornady 556 75 Gr. TAP that were missing once. I contacted Kathy at Hornady and she said it happens quite a bit. She sent me new replacements.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:05:26 AM EDT
It happened to me too on an order of reloading equipment. I called the vendor and they replaced it after asking me if the box had appearred to have been re-sealed . It had been. UPS
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:21:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ROMAD-556:

And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour


I was paid the same in 1989 in FTW @ Northside HUB for Twilight Unload. Made a buck more an hour for Sort Isle or Irregs if you could pass the STAR zip code test. Pretty sad that its the same pay all these years later. In 1989 that was great money and we took care of the job....back in the day you could leave your wallet in the hub on the time clock and it would sit there overnight until you came back to get it. We had metal detectors in those days too but I cant remember ever hearing about routine theft - sure there was always 'that one guy' about once a year but it was very rare.

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right


That is sad....back in 1984 I was making $8.00/hr working in the Willow Grove Hub, PD-4, Twilight shift, loading.....
It was real good $$$ with bennies for a college kid.
There was some company pride and they took loss prevention seriously - ditto on the metal detectors, coming and going.
I never thought theft would become a regular thing. Bummer about your loss of godds & $$. That sux.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:21:57 AM EDT
man that sucks
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:23:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By skiggy22:
I work at UPS, people do steal stuff. Most times they are caught, we have to go through several metal detectors going in and out of our facility. Most likely the culprit was caught, and if so he will be fired and prosecuted. But if they did catch him it may take a week to tie him to the shipment, I have seen millions of rounds of ammo go through us but I was never dumb enough to try and steal. Good luck w/ trying to get is past. If you can ask where the shipment was damaged, when a shipment is damaged it is supposed to be logged. Plus if damage is the case you are suposed to get the value of the damaged goods back, submit a claim.


There was absolutely no damage to the box. I brought them both quickly into my work area [wife doesn't know about this credit card] and figured the weights were different just due to how they packed them. Then I opened and counted 30 boxes of 20 rounds packed around a 7.62 metal can holding 1000 rd's of reloaded .40. The other box was triple or quadruple wrapped without a mark of damage on it and had the other can of 1000 .40 reloads. The tip off is that there is no invoice anywhere. I thought I might have ordered 600 rds, but that made no sense so I came upstairs to check my order online. I ordered 1200 rds because I shot 200 rds last time out and decided to have an even number of rounds.

I hope the guy gets jailed for "felony stupid!"

Walsh


Hey, just like me!
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:25:19 AM EDT
I had 200 rounds of .30-06 dissappear form a Fedex shipment once. CTD made good on the ammo.

IMO, the package was poorly taped and it fell apart in transit.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:25:40 AM EDT
I have picked up packages at UPS several times several times after they were unable to deliver to my home address without a signature. While at the UPS facility in Tucson I watched driver after driver go through the metal detector on the way out of the plant. Sounds good so far, but most of them with a backpack or lunch box slid the package on a counter located to the side of the metal detector and picked it up on the other side of the detector, all under the watchful eye of the guard. When the guard left the guard shack to go inside the plant some drivers dismissed the routine of passing the package around the detector and just walked through, the detector beeping away at them as they passed through with the package. When the guard came back they went back to the pass around technique. Good luck in getting your ammo back. You will never see the ammo again, but they will probably pay the claim.

DDubbb
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 5:41:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
... UPS who pay the employees probably twenty bucks or more an hour to load and sort robbing us some more...quote]

Haha, that is really funny. Although I have never worked at UPS, I have two sisters that did work there as loaders. Even in the Chicago area, land of the over taxed communists, they were making less $10 an hour, and I'm sure they lost a good bit of that to union dues. What on earth makes you think they make anywhere near $20 an hour?
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 6:08:51 AM EDT
Not to insult the many honest and hard working UPS employees, but I understand that UPS requires overnight shipment of handguns because so many of them were being stolen by the workers.

My own experience is that about 3/4 of the time, our local UPS driver will simply leave a package by our door and not even ring the bell just above tht package. Sometimes we find it before it gets soaked by rain, sometimes we don't.

My friendly FFL says that several times he has come home in the evening and found what was obviously a rifle box, marked "Adult Signature Required", sitting on his steps.

Other folks tell me that FedEx Ground is worse.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 6:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2007 6:20:55 AM EDT by blackx]

Originally Posted By ROMAD-556:

And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour


I was paid the same in 1989 in FTW @ Northside HUB for Twilight Unload. Made a buck more an hour for Sort Isle or Irregs if you could pass the STAR zip code test. Pretty sad that its the same pay all these years later. In 1989 that was great money and we took care of the job....back in the day you could leave your wallet in the hub on the time clock and it would sit there overnight until you came back to get it. We had metal detectors in those days too but I cant remember ever hearing about routine theft - sure there was always 'that one guy' about once a year but it was very rare.

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right


I guess the teamsters are not that useful after all. I was making 8.50 an hour sorting during one Christmas during college... in 1994!
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 6:18:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By graywolf:
man that sucks


No kidding.

I hope it gets resolved.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 6:24:52 AM EDT
Wow, those are some scary stories. It definitely helps if you're lucky enough to know your driver, I had a driver that knew me by first name and knew where I worked (very close to home). If he had something for me and I wasn't at home, he would bring it by my work or by my parent's house a couple streets over. I don't know if he was really supposed to do that, but it was an immense help to me and I never lost anything. He's gone now and I don't know my new guy at all. :(
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 7:17:19 AM EDT
So far I have been fortunate with UPS deliveries. The only problem I have sort of routinely is that one particular driver likes to leave packages by the garage door if it's down instead of by the front door. If you come out of the house and get into the car you don't see a package laying there.

This happened last year when my wife ran over a shipment I got from Midway. By the grace of God the box was bigger than necessary so the items inside weren't damaged.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 8:16:11 AM EDT
Was it shipped in a cardboard box that was marked ammunition on the outside? A lot of ammo shippers reuse the old boxes that they originally received the ammo in, that basically advertises what's inside, especially if you order by the case.

Of course, that shipped from the factory to distrubutors, and on to the dealers probably has Winchester, Remington or whatever stamped on the outside also.

I guess a heavy package, rattling, with an ORM-D sticker on it, is pretty much a tip-off to thieves also.

I hope you get some resolution.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 8:35:16 AM EDT
"Haha, that is really funny. Although I have never worked at UPS, I have two sisters that did work there as loaders. Even in the Chicago area, land of the over taxed communists, they were making less $10 an hour, and I'm sure they lost a good bit of that to union dues. What on earth makes you think they make anywhere near $20 an hour?"


From what the driver tells me what HE makes..again a big disparity in wages in a large company and if so the reason for the thieving becomes clearer.Drivers wages and the benefits are good for them.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 9:57:14 AM EDT
It's too bad this crap happens. FWIW, with all of the shipping I have done, the entity I have had the fewest problems with, and takes the best care of the packages (relative to others), is... The United States Postal Service. Too bad their rules on guns and ammo bite the big one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 10:05:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2007 10:07:40 AM EDT by akethan]

Originally Posted By Walsh:
I received a UPS shipment of ammo today. The one box held half the order of 1000 rds of .40 and 300 rds of .223 and was 58 pounds just as the company's shipping label stated. The other box should have been identical.

The other box was triple wrapped with tape, had no visible sign of damage, was only 42 pounds, and no invoice was contained inside either, and it was missing 300 rds of .223. UPS and the shipper have begun an investigation. I hope someone goes to jail for this.

I would mention the name of the company but I don't think it matters and I don't suspect at all that it's their fault in short shipping to me. They still have plenty of stock shown online and I've dealth with them a halfdozen times before. They were right on it in returning my call and said that while they get some boxes back from the "Samsonite Gorilla" as undeliverable, I'm not the first case of missing ammo from a box. They said I'll likely be contacted by UPS for investigators to look at the boxes. I told him the $200 is important, but this box was neatly opened and sealed.

MORAL OF STORY: Open the box immediately and don't stuff it on the shelf. My daughter signed for this before I got home.

Walsh



Was it KY imports?





I had some SS109 come up short once.
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 7:16:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
Was it KY imports?


No, it was not.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 7:25:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2007 7:26:51 PM EDT by Walsh]
I got a call from UPS today and some of the ammo, in and out of boxes along with the shipping label, has been found and will be delivered Wednesday.

My question is how, if they attempted a delivery a week ago, and I called fron vacation and had them hold it for a week, could it go from okay between the truck and back to storage, and then it loses 30 boxes that are found after I lodge the complaint? Why wasn't it shipped in a seperate box with that label on Monday?

I'm sorry, but the box they were missing from had no issues, and since the order was exactly split between two exact boxes, and the okay box looks indestructable, how is it that the box missing items looked just as good but had extra tape and had bubble wrap inside in the place of ammo? This is too neat for my liking.

I'll talk to the driver Wednesday.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 8:35:55 PM EDT
The Smell Is .......Cover Up.......Mayhaps they read this forum and do not like the free advertising about workers defeating the security walking around the metal detectors,charging "Fotah Dollarz" for sending ammo and maybe immigration doing a raid at their places like they do unanounced these days,checking the list of who works there and if legally in the US
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 9:15:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Was it shipped in a cardboard box that was marked ammunition on the outside? .


No, nothing like that...unless this counts:

"CARTRIDGES"
"SMALL ARMS"



I'm going to request a formal investigation into this. The day after I lodge a complaint they find the ammo with a packing slip? I'm guessing the ammo will be out of the boxes and the boxes stepped on in a way that goes way beyond what could have happened.

I don't know the process of what went where. But I would think it was moved twice:

1-back to the customer service area for a hold for a week. If so and it broke apart and got packaged up again real nice, then why didn;t the ammo that was suddenly found get delivered Monday, OR;

2-on the way back to go out for delivery. If so, and it was damaged then, then why wasn't the triple taped-up box [remember that they are identical in that the shipment was haalved into two boxes] noted regarding some damage and why weren;t the items put into another box and sent to me then?

This just smells to me like someone got caught. Take a 7.62 can and fill it with 1000 rds of .40. Then surround it with 30 boxes of 20 rounds of .223. If that breaks and all the small boxes fly all over, why is the can put in a box, bubble wrapped, sealed up neatly, and delivered without a note on it of being "damaged"?

I think if I hadn't called someone else would be shooting my ammo. Someone told me they have metal detectors that prevent something like this. Anyone have any opinions on that?

Walsh



Link Posted: 8/7/2007 9:44:03 PM EDT
i'm sorry but you folks crack me up. a big conspiracy by ups to cover up the theft of missing ammo...

[rant]

your ammo was probably found weeks ago rolling around some feeder truck and was then given to the overgoods clerk (not necessarily at your hub) along with a thousand other random items.

some time after an unloader noticed a damaged package and relayed it to his local damages clerk. where he fixed said damages and relayed it to your driver's loader.

once the overgoods clerk figured out where your ammo should go (weeks later) they sent it to the proper center and gave you a call.

pretty standard procedure(s) imo.

if you really think that a company such as ups would cover up a theft you're nuts.

no one steals 300 rounds of .223, sneaks it out through security and then sneaks it back in due to a change of faith. odds are the thief would never even had known about your filing a claim.

last but not least and probably most important, theres a 99.9999% chance your driver had nothing to do with any of it and still has no idea anything even went wrong with your delivery. think about it, why would a driver steal some ammo which isn't even worth a full day's pay. knowing full well that he would be fired on the spot. i for one am not willing to give up my 28/hr, pension, med/den, 4o1k, etc. for a couple hundred rounds of ammo. not yet anyhow

[/rant]

allan, ups
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 9:53:22 PM EDT
also, any one who has ever spent time in a ups facility knows that the packages never stop moving. you can't take a box, sort through it and take what you need from it without being noticed. especially with ammo cans, it's impossible.

saddly, theft happens, but it's not typically the big stuff. you wouldn't believe how many cell phones, ipods, etc. i've done follow-ups on but at 8/hr you have to almost expect it.

allan
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 10:02:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2007 10:05:40 PM EDT by agreendale]

Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
...UPS who pay the employees probably twenty bucks or more an hour to load and sort...



...install video security and guards to catch and prosecute them and put them away for a long time...

done, petty theft won't get anyone "a long time"

...open the packages you recieve and count the goods to make sure they are all there while the driver waits for you... begin the next ammo shipment to inspect while he is on my doorstep...

yeah, good luck with that you don't open before signing and once it's opened it's yours.


allan
Link Posted: 8/7/2007 10:05:22 PM EDT
Drivers make $25+. The sorters are a different story. I had 2k of 7.62x39 from Cabelas come in with a split box. At least 10 of the individual 20 rd boxes were broken and loose rounds were strewn along the porch. I unloaded the box and calculated the missing ammount of ammo. I called Cabelas the next day informing them that I was missing 24 rounds. They sent me three 20 rd boxes free of charge after speaking to me for only a minute. They earned my respect on that one. I did comment on their lack of proper packing though.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:14:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By agreendale:
i'm sorry but you folks crack me up. a big conspiracy by ups to cover up the theft of missing ammo...


Hmm maybe this can be merged into a joint lawsuit against UPS and The Sportsman's Guide.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 7:08:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Southernman077:
Drivers make $25+. The sorters are a different story. I had 2k of 7.62x39 from Cabelas come in with a split box. At least 10 of the individual 20 rd boxes were broken and loose rounds were strewn along the porch. I unloaded the box and calculated the missing ammount of ammo. I called Cabelas the next day informing them that I was missing 24 rounds. They sent me three 20 rd boxes free of charge after speaking to me for only a minute. They earned my respect on that one. I did comment on their lack of proper packing though.
Proper packing is a two way street. If I expect a particular level of care in handling, I pack items a certain way. Apparently the shipping guys at Cabellas expected a heavy-ass box to be handled by people and not the machinery that UPS uses.

I've received stuff that had impacted other shipments during transit, and the boxes showed it. But most of the time "conservative" packing saves the day. I've received stuff that had been "paranoid" packed too, and the only drawback was that the package was heavier (and thus more expensive to ship) and it took a lot longer to get at the stuff inside.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:51:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
"i for one am not willing to give up my 28/hr, pension, med/den, 4o1k, etc. for a couple hundred rounds of ammo. not yet anyhow "

For those who wondered why I said they make probably $20 an hour.......
A man in brown speaks.....The ones who do most of the work in the back sorting need to talk to the Hoffa boys who run the union,looks like they get paid almost two thirds less...More than a thousand bucks a week and bennies..no wonder rates are high as they are for shipping.


I think you are missing a major point about how much these guys get paid. And from what I understand, some UPS drivers actually make over $40 an hour. It depends on where you live and what kind of deal the union has worked out.

But aside from that. I think the pay scale reflects properly the type of people that can do the job. A driver has to have some sense of getting things done, must know the area they are working in, they generally have a greater responsibility to get the packages where they need to be, they must have a good driving record, which probably means they have lhad ittle interaction with the law and most likely don't do drugs, have to put up with traffic conditions, put up with certain difficult customers, have to lift heavy packages at times, work over twelve hours a day, some load their own trucks in the morning, and unload them in the evening, they have to present a certain image to the public, and they go through probation periods.

A loader at the facility on the other hand, can be just about any pot head schmuck, borderline felon, if not a felon, that might not have a bad back, and can almost always get to work on time, or at least within 15 minutes of the time they are supposed to be there.

Different capabilities are going to dictate that there is a disparity in pay.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 1:32:49 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By ROMAD-556:
height=8
And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour


I was paid the same in 1989 in FTW @ Northside HUB for Twilight Unload. Made a buck more an hour for Sort Isle or Irregs if you could pass the STAR zip code test. Pretty sad that its the same pay all these years later. In 1989 that was great money and we took care of the job....back in the day you could leave your wallet in the hub on the time clock and it would sit there overnight until you came back to get it. We had metal detectors in those days too but I cant remember ever hearing about routine theft - sure there was always 'that one guy' about once a year but it was very rare.

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right Yeah the pay sucks, so as a consequence the quality of workers sucks as well. I have to have a second job to support my gun addiction though. But FYI if you ship anything ups pack it well, i have seen alot of boxes thrown around. But good luck with the claim man.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 1:38:44 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By blackx:
height=8
Originally Posted By ROMAD-556:
height=8
And btw, we get paid 8.50 an hour


I was paid the same in 1989 in FTW @ Northside HUB for Twilight Unload. Made a buck more an hour for Sort Isle or Irregs if you could pass the STAR zip code test. Pretty sad that its the same pay all these years later. In 1989 that was great money and we took care of the job....back in the day you could leave your wallet in the hub on the time clock and it would sit there overnight until you came back to get it. We had metal detectors in those days too but I cant remember ever hearing about routine theft - sure there was always 'that one guy' about once a year but it was very rare.

Sorry about the ammo loss, that aint right he I was making 8.50 an hour sorting during one Christmas during college... in 1994!


Agreed we get screwed, and right now its over 100 degrees in the building I work
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 1:41:07 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
"Haha, that is really funny. Although I have never worked at UPS, I have two sisters that did work there as loaders. Even in the Chicago area, land of the over taxed communists, they were making less $10 an hour, and I'm sure they lost a good bit of that to union dues. What on earth makes you think they make anywhere near $20 an hour?"


From what the driver tells me what HE makes..again a big disparity in wages in a large company and if so the reason for the thieving becomes clearer.Drivers wages and the benefits are good for them.

Yeah, the DRIVERS get paid good and have better benefits than the regular loader that sees your package and has plenty of time with it
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 2:41:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 6:23:56 PM EDT by Walsh]

Originally Posted By agreendale:
also, any one who has ever spent time in a ups facility knows that the packages never stop moving. you can't take a box, sort through it and take what you need from it without being noticed. especially with ammo cans, it's impossible.

sadly, theft happens, but it's not typically the big stuff. you wouldn't believe how many cell phones, ipods, etc. i've done follow-ups on but at 8/hr you have to almost expect it.
allan


I got a box today with 267 rounds out of 300. 12 had the casing pressed/disfigured in a manner to make them unshootable. The 30 boxes were there, mostly mangled, and with a few having some ammo in them.

The driver said he remembers the weight as he decided I am always home and he didn't use the hand cart. I asked if they were the same weeight and he said probably. One can note the difference between a box of about 58 pounds and 42 pounds. He said he returned them from the truck when told they were being delayed a week in deliver. So this happened at the local warehouse.

Sorry for those who say "no way did anyone try ssomething" but the "damaged" box wasn't damaged. It was very neatly wrapped up without a note that something had happened to it that necessitated it being wrapped back up.

I've know the driver, by name, for two years. AND when I opened a box last time a delivery came I asked him to wait as I opened it and the can had 7.62 on it and I had ordered .223. So he knew I open boxes and would know ammo was missing if he even thought of taking anything. I don't suspect him in the least.

If any worker for UPS wants to tell me about how it leave the truck to stay at the local counter for a week, and how it goes back on the truck, I'm all ears.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 6:45:29 PM EDT
FWIW, most places that sell precious metals will pack them in a package envelope with company's stamps all over it. It's impossible to open it without breaking the stamps or seals. When someone looks through it, it's impossible to hide.

Link Posted: 8/8/2007 6:55:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By agreendale:
i'm confused, you have damaged goods but you don't believe the original box was damaged?


Yes....if I ship Waterford Crystal, can the box be okay but the glasses insside broken? I don't think the shipping box wasn't damaged, I know the shipping box wasn't damaged. Only tape could have ripped. Looking at how the one good box was taped, it's just not an option for that tape to have cleanly ripped where 4 areas of the top were taped and no damage occurred to the box.



would you mind sharing what you believed to have happened with your ammo?

i'm not trying to come off as an ass and maybe i have had too much of the brown kool-ade but it irks me when folks are so quick to bash ups.

allan


I don't think what I've written is hard to follow. But here goes again.

I ordered two cans of 1000 rd .40 reloads and 60 boxes of 20 rd's each in .223. So the order was split into two identical boxes, around 56-58 pounds each, with 1 can and 30 boxes in each.

I received one box with 1 can and 30 rounds, as shipped. I received a 2nd box with ZERO damage to it that had triple or quadruple the clear wrapping tape with only the 1000 rd can and bubble wrap inside and tightly around it. The 30 boxes of .223 were missing.

*** Does clear wrapping tape open so cleanly without a tear to the box that it can empty all ammo? I don't think so. As ammo is falling out, unless the entire top openes, then the can will slide into the area that the 30 rd boxes exit from and block at least some of the boxes. ***

I went on vacation and both boxes arrived the next day. So any "breakage" of the tape on the box allowing all 30 boxes of .223 to exit would have to have happened after that delivery day if the driver is right that both boxes weighed the same as he said he carried over 100 pounds without the cart and had to carry it back when I wasn't home.

What I believe happened to the ammo is that the box was opened after the delivery attempt, the .223 was taken out, the bubble wrap placed tightly to replace it, and it was neatly resealed. If not, and it mysteriously broke open more than a week before I took delivery, why did it take so long [today] to arrive with the shipping invoice with it? It had an extra week to catch up as I delayed delivery after it arrived at my home by e-mail received and a call to UPS.

It arrived today. Why, when I called on Monday, did they not have any pending delivery in the system of what arrived today, which would have been the missing ammo?

What gets done to these boxes such that if the top somehow cleanly opened that it wouldn't be noticed that 300 rds "fell" from that box? How could 300 rd's pop off the conveyor belt and be collected and take 8+ days to ctach up with the rest of the order?

If you work at UPS, or did, please explain to me how this could possibly happen while there is no damage to the shipping box?

Walsh


Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:09:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 8:11:34 PM EDT by agreendale]
my guess is your package was damaged in transit.

as said in my first post your ammo was probably found rolling around some feeder truck and was then given to the overgoods clerk (not necessarily at your center) along with a thousand other random items.

some time after at your local center an unloader noticed a damaged package and relayed it to his local damages clerk. where he tightened up the package and put it back in the system. later that day your driver made the first del attempt.

meanwhile once the overgoods clerk figured out where your ammo should have gone (8 days later) they sent it to the proper center and made the delivery probably as the original tracking number.

pretty standard procedure(s) imo.

it's tough to believe that someone would take 300 rounds of .223, have a change of heart and return your goods some 8 days later. without being caught. this would have to be a multiple person operation.

but if it is discovered that this was the case then i am an ass and i apologize for your inconvenience(s)

allan

eta:
*** Does clear wrapping tape open so cleanly without a tear to the box that it can empty all ammo? I don't think so. As ammo is falling out, unless the entire top openes, then the can will slide into the area that the 30 rd boxes exit from and block at least some of the boxes. ***

yes, happens all the time. clear tape is notorious for it. one little nick in the tape's seem, a little pressure and it'll slice right open.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:21:35 PM EDT
here is what I think. There is only about a 1/2 percent chance that there was any theft or vandalism involved... wait 1/2% vandalism 0% theft.

I am familiar with a large postal facility and have only peeked through open doors at my local UPS terminal. Crap is moving 90mph no one actually cares about any of the packages. They just have to do this stuff until 5:00pm. Heavy packages get brutalized plain and simple.

File a loss claim if you want, But beyond that I suggest you drop it and forget about it. You'll be a happier person if you do. You will gain -ZERO- if you push it.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:44:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By agreendale:
my guess is your package was damaged in transit.
.


I guess the bottom line is that a claim was started and the item showed up, in large part. If a few more happen regarding ammunition from this center, they'll look more closely.

Still, if the one okay box is an example of the wrapping on the other, I don't see how dropping it from even 8 feet could open it without damage to the box.

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:53:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cckw:

File a loss claim if you want, But beyond that I suggest you drop it and forget about it. You'll be a happier person if you do. You will gain -ZERO- if you push it.


But maybe other's will gain. Or is no one ever caught stealing from UPS?

For the sake of discussion, my packages sat at the Customer Desk for a week. What if it's a supervisor and this isn't the first report of missing ammo?

Is that impossible? Could Robert Hansen sell his country out? How about Aldrige Ames?

Walsh
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:21:33 PM EDT
"What gets done to these boxes such that if the top somehow cleanly opened that it wouldn't be noticed that 300 rds "fell" from that box? How could 300 rd's pop off the conveyor belt and be collected and take 8+ days to ctach up with the rest of the order?

If you work at UPS, or did, please explain to me how this could possibly happen while there is no damage to the shipping box?"


This has got to be one of the more interesting threads with postings I have seen on this board.At work tonite some of us were reading it and one girl said probably Walsh ought to call Homeland Security and report it as maybe Arabs or Iraquis could be working in the sort places and getting it a little at a time??????? A girl remember but another person reading the posts wondered how many boxes or cases of ammo ever got "Lost" in transit on the brown trucks and turned in for insurance.
Some of the brown boys posting here have good points on wages and work but making that much money I think also bears a more than average amount of responsibility to taking care of the customer and his goods that ship.I can see big bucks getting paid to deliver to ghettos and border places with illegal druggers ect from Mexico where if it was me and had to do it would be carrying a weapon and pitching the packages from the truck if I saw a street corner gang of the residents coming my way.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:30:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
I can see big bucks getting paid to deliver to ghettos and border places with illegal druggers ect from Mexico where if it was me and had to do it would be carrying a weapon and pitching the packages from the truck if I saw a street corner gang of the residents coming my way.


wtf you run into alot of mexican illegal drugger street corner gangsters up there in mi?
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:30:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 9:31:56 PM EDT by Walsh]

Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
At work tonite some of us were reading it


Hmm...oxymoron? Or does your pay scale include monitoring AR-15



and one girl said probably Walsh ought to call Homeland Security and report it as maybe Arabs or Iraquis could be working in the sort places and getting it a little at a time??????? .


Well, I guess that's why she's not working in intelliegence. Ammo is cheap compared to what is needed to accomplish a deed AND the risk of taking oneself out of a cell isn't worth the $200

You know, I regret that I ever bothered to tell anyone my ammo came up short. The mental midgets here can just sign on the line, stuff whatever is delivered away on a shelf, and trust UPS. I'll remain trusting any shipper just like I'd trust Hillary Clinton with health care.

Walsh - the world would run a lot better if I were running it
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