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Posted: 12/22/2004 12:42:30 PM EDT
I've acquired some AE 55gr from NatchezSS (the price was excellent), and I noted that it's not the same as AE I've had in the past.  The stuff I have is in Lake City (LC instead of the FC headstamp I've seen in the past) and the primers and case mouths have visible sealant.

It looks like XM193 that's been tumbled to polish it a bit.

Has anyone chrono'd any lately?  I know in the past AE 55gr .223 has been loaded a little slower than M193 specs, but this looks like it may just be M193 that has been packed into AE packages.

Link Posted: 12/22/2004 7:15:06 PM EDT
Probably similar to the winchester .223 and the Q3131A issue.

I personally don't care for AE ammo, maybe they have changed but the ammo I used from them was not impressive. Only shot it in a .40 Glock but I think the primers must be excessively hard because I had some FTF's and the primer had a solid hit...
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 1:19:57 AM EDT
I have always been pleased with  the performance of AE ammo but most of my thousands of rounds have been 9MM and I've never had a single FTF.

The AE could not just be XM193 polished because the pressures of the XM193 load exceed the SAAMI spec for .223 and have to be labled 556 for safety. They could be made out of all the same components but just a little less powder though. Federal is using LC brass to load it's Tactical line so it would not suprise me to find that they are extending its use across other products.  The LC brasss is considered some of the best made and the economies of scale for the military production have got to be a huge advantage.

I looked at my remaining AE .223. ( just the old FC headstamp). Does the new have a primer sealant?( the red sealant is actually more noticeable on my AE than the black on the XM193-Lot-61 I have).
The old AE has a nickeled(zinced) primer while the XM193 has a brass primer.

Jeez - I am a Ammo nerd!  
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 4:54:55 AM EDT
Yes, it has the red sealant visible around the primer.  I don't remember older AE having any sealant, but that doesn't mean it didn't have it!  I did not notice the color of the primer ... I'd make a crappy CSI detective!

I've only seen purple sealant on XM193 ... hah!

So ... we really need someone to chrono this current version of the AE 55gr.  It's the only way we're going to know for sure.

This is, by the way, a huge HINT to the people reading this who have chronos and like doing such things.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 5:53:19 AM EDT
I have always liked this load. Clean, reliable ammo for cheap. Many thousands of rounds fired in the past five years. Just had my first ftf. LC 02 heastamp. Funny you should ask. I hope that this is a coincidence, your inquiry and my one FTF. I will shoot it with confidence for now. Track record is outstanding so far for me.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:03:52 AM EDT
I picked up a couple of cases of American Eagle this summer that was polished Lake City brass.

It works great!!!

I'll take and post some pics later today
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 6:31:26 PM EDT
Old news. Use the search function to find out the info.
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:43:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 7:46:16 PM EDT by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By ALAN308:
I have always liked this load. Clean, reliable ammo for cheap. Many thousands of rounds fired in the past five years. Just had my first ftf. LC 02 heastamp. Funny you should ask. I hope that this is a coincidence, your inquiry and my one FTF. I will shoot it with confidence for now. Track record is outstanding so far for me.


A big +1

I've been shooting AE 55gr FMJBT since the early nineties with only a small handful of problems. Of the malfunctions I've had, most of them have been magazine related, and not problems with the ammunition or rifle.

For my money AE 223 is an accurate, clean burning, solid performer. I have many thousands of empty AE brass (with Federal headstamp) that I occasionally sell on eBay. Even though Federal brass tends to be a little soft people still pay me quite a premium for it.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 10:28:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M199:
Old news. Use the search function to find out the info.



I tried searching, but could not find the answers to my questions.

Perhaps you could be so kind as to post a link to the topic(s) where this old news resides.

Link Posted: 12/24/2004 12:36:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2004 12:40:55 PM EDT by M199]
It is NOT 193 but simply the componets with the old powder charge. It runs 200fps + UNDER 193. It is actually slightly slower than the Old AE brass due to the smaller case volume of Fed. I wrote up a reveiw a month or 2 ago so it should be here. Velocities for 14.5" and 20" tubes are there. Great price for new LC brass though.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 1:19:08 PM EDT
Here 'ya go:

AE223 in LC Brass

Merry Christmas
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 9:59:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2004 10:09:41 AM EDT by rhino_]
Thanks, guys!  I appreciate the information!

Looks like you got about 2900 fps from a 16 inch barrel ... does that mean you get a full 3100 fps with M193-spec from your same 16 inch barrel?  That's pretty good.  Given the same bullet though, it should be okay for defensive use in a pinch, but with a more limited range than actual M193-spec.

Fortunately I get the same zero (as well as I can hold) at 50 yards with both the AE .223 and the XM193 (and 68gr Black Hills is about the same at 50 too).  

I still keep something I know is M193 spec (XM193 or Q3131A) in mags for "tense social situations" and in storage for emergencies, but the AE .223 is fine for 3-gun matches and plinking, especially at $3.09 a box in case quantities.

Link Posted: 12/25/2004 10:17:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 11:24:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tatjana:
BE AWARE

American Eagle will NOT fragment like M193 at any speed and is not suited for self-defense.




Okay ... if it's the same bullet as used in the XM193 (as indicated in another thread), why not?

What am I missing?

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 11:52:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 12:10:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 2:54:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2004 2:55:55 PM EDT by M199]

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By rhino_:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
BE AWARE

American Eagle will NOT fragment like M193 at any speed and is not suited for self-defense.




Okay ... if it's the same bullet as used in the XM193 (as indicated in another thread), why not?

What am I missing?





I actually don't think it is the same, but I won't swear to this because I am not sure.



It is not the same bullet.  The AE223 has a thicker jacket.



These are m193 componets; NOT the old Fed crap. Get new AE LC and see for yourself. NOBODY should use this for anything but target because of the velocity; as usual, Tatjana is correct.
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 6:09:57 PM EDT
okay ... if the bullet is the same projectile as in M193, then it doesn't make sense that it won't fragment AT ALL.

I'll believe that the range at which it will happen is significantly shorter due to velocity, but if the same projectile hits the same stuff at the same speed (albeit at a differen distance), then the terminal performance should be comparable.

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 6:33:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2004 6:34:26 PM EDT by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By rhino_:
okay ... if the bullet is the same projectile as in M193, then it doesn't make sense that it won't fragment AT ALL.

I'll believe that the range at which it will happen is significantly shorter due to velocity, but if the same projectile hits the same stuff at the same speed (albeit at a differen distance), then the terminal performance should be comparable.



My 55gr AE 223 is definitely not the same bullet as M193. I just sectioned one of each with a Dremel tool to find out for myself (and almost cut a freaking finger off while doing it ). The jacket of the AE is about double the thickness of the 193. I'm trying to post a pic, but I'm having trouble getting my digital camera to download it's contents to my PC.

If you guys have some older (or newer) AE that is different than mine that may be the difference, but mine at least doesn't look like it would fragment worth a damn.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 3:03:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By rhino_:
okay ... if the bullet is the same projectile as in M193, then it doesn't make sense that it won't fragment AT ALL.

I'll believe that the range at which it will happen is significantly shorter due to velocity, but if the same projectile hits the same stuff at the same speed (albeit at a differen distance), then the terminal performance should be comparable.



My 55gr AE 223 is definitely not the same bullet as M193. I just sectioned one of each with a Dremel tool to find out for myself (and almost cut a freaking finger off while doing it ). The jacket of the AE is about double the thickness of the 193. I'm trying to post a pic, but I'm having trouble getting my digital camera to download it's contents to my PC.


If you guys have some older (or newer) AE that is different than mine that may be the difference, but mine at least doesn't look like it would fragment worth a damn.



No doubt in that, the older AE/Fed brass ammo  has a THICK jacketed bullet, no dispute. Post a pic if you want but it is NOT LC brass you have. Get some new AE/LC 2003 and see for yourself. This is blasting ammo and nothing more because of the powder loading. YES it may fragment at close ranges but why would you chance it when you can get quality ammo for a few dimes more? The real benefits here are the brass and the bullets which many of us have use for.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 3:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rhino_:
I've acquired some AE 55gr from NatchezSS (the price was excellent), and I noted that it's not the same as AE I've had in the past.  The stuff I have is in Lake City (LC instead of the FC headstamp I've seen in the past) and the primers and case mouths have visible sealant.

It looks like XM193 that's been tumbled to polish it a bit.

Has anyone chrono'd any lately?  I know in the past AE 55gr .223 has been loaded a little slower than M193 specs, but this looks like it may just be M193 that has been packed into AE packages.



 i use this in all my ar's and have had nothing but good luck with it... you will also find that it is offered more times at a bargain than most other .223 ammo...
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 3:57:58 PM EDT
I agree.  My M16A1 loves this stuff.  I've had no problems (knock on wood).  When your shooting nearly 900+ RPM, AE223 is priced right.  It's of great quality and made in the USA.   I'd rather shoot this current production AE over surplus 223 any time of the day.  JMHO!
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 3:25:40 PM EDT
This link would seem to indicate that the AE223 does fragment in ballistic gel.  

le.atk.com/223data/223rifle.asp?pgtocall=2

The AE223 I just recieved today from Outdoor Marksman has the FC headstamp and nickel primer with no visible sealant.  The lot or serial number on the 500rd case and individual boxes is 2 31H505.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 9:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By rhino_:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
BE AWARE

American Eagle will NOT fragment like M193 at any speed and is not suited for self-defense.




Okay ... if it's the same bullet as used in the XM193 (as indicated in another thread), why not?

What am I missing?




I actually don't think it is the same, but I won't swear to this because I am not sure.



It is not the same bullet.  The AE223 has a thicker jacket.



Which commercial .223 55gr FMJ loads have normal (thinner) jackets?

(Rem. UMC or Win. "White Box" perhaps?)
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:03:08 PM EDT
I don't believe Rem has a thinner jacket, but I think the Winchester does.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:34:14 AM EDT
And now with the shortage of the better ammo it is getting real tough to find FAE.223 ,UMC,and even walmart 40 rnd Winchester value packshinking.gifSure wish all you Rambos would slow up a bit so i could purchase atleast 500 rounds to do some shootingh.gif
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 10:52:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By moshooter:
And now with the shortage of the better ammo it is getting real tough to find FAE.223 ,UMC,and even walmart 40 rnd Winchester value packsSure wish all you Rambos would slow up a bit so i could purchase atleast 500 rounds to do some shooting



Start reloading.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:12:40 AM EDT
Yep got the press back out today as i wont save alot on reloading for the .223 but atleast i will have ammo,while the US is gouging its on people who owns these weapons,Going to pick up brass and powder today as i got plenty of once and twice shot brass and primers and bullets,And yes you can find brass alot easier then loaded ammo
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:50:27 PM EDT
kw951, I never noticed that they had american eagle in that test.  Hmmmmmmmmm.... Does make you wonder.  I'm sure it's at close range but hmmmmmmmmmm.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:28:22 PM EDT
Yeah the stuff on that site makes it look like it's getting XM193 type performance.  The back of the AE box lists the muzzle velocity as 3200+fps so I don't know what to think.  
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:53:45 AM EDT
Well, the experts will say it's got a long neck.  Too long.  Regardless, I was under the impression they weren't supposed to fragment.  What I don't understand is why don't the manufactures use the same bullet as an m193 spec in their cheap ammo????  I wonder what bullet black hills uses in their 55 grain fmj.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 4:55:15 PM EDT
just recieved my shipment from natchez and it has the fc headstamp.


ima try another comp and see what turns up.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 6:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 9:46:34 AM EDT by brillo]
New inventory of Federal AE223 shows a significant increase in prices - so far this month:

Ammoman up $10/1000 to $219 delivered,
Midway up $18/1000 to $203.98 NET,
Sportsman's Guide OUT OF STOCK, but their site shows a new price up $34/1000 to $189.94 NET, delivery expected 1/28/05.

Natchez is OUT, Outdoor Marksman showing 2 500-round cases remaining at $165/1000 NET.

Wholesale Hunter shows 48 cases remaining at $160/1000 NET, but they usually display only their opening inventory - they seem to update the inventory status only when they're OUT.

EDIT: Inventory as of 1/11/2005, 1:30 p.m., EST - 17 500-round cases, price up $14/1000 to $174.
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