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Posted: 12/5/2011 8:39:17 PM EDT
It might be suffering from scope related issues, but I shot one this weekend at 50 and 100yd. Obviously, the "best" ammo we had was Wolf 70 gr. w/ the majority being 53 gr. surplus. At 50 it seemed like we were averaging 2 - 2.5" and as much as 5" at 100. I made one scope correction at 100 that seemed to get it down to around 2", made slight correction to move the group and it opened up again.

The scope definitely wasn't tracking well, but I'm just curious if anyone else owns one of these as I have ammo, but no upper myself. The best feature? This upper just runs and runs. Absolutely no failures out of several different C products mags. The extra power spring wasn't added to the lower and only had one surplus round that took 2 strikes out of probably 250. Again if you own this upper and shoot the same, is this realistic or worse expectations for accuracy?
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 2:17:40 AM EDT
i have two of the upper in 5.45. all i shoot is russian surplus and get between 3-4" groups at 100yrds. good enough for me.
Link Posted: 12/6/2011 7:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2011 9:10:19 AM EDT by zulthor]
Adams Arms 5.45 Upper with 30+ year old Russian Surplus from a seated position with a sand bag (not a bench rest).



Granted that is with a SSA-E trigger but before the trigger I was getting between .8-1.5" groups at 100.

I've shot 10" steel out to 450 yards fairly easily.



I think the results you're getting are either sight related (scope, no magnification, iron sights, etc), trigger pull related, or practice related.
Link Posted: 12/9/2011 8:56:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By finishman2000:
i have two of the upper in 5.45. all i shoot is russian surplus and get between 3-4" groups at 100yrds. good enough for me.


scoped or irons?

rested or offhand?
Link Posted: 12/12/2011 12:53:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Adams Arms 5.45 Upper with 30+ year old Russian Surplus from a seated position with a sand bag (not a bench rest).

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/162/545100ydnov.jpg

Granted that is with a SSA-E trigger but before the trigger I was getting between .8-1.5" groups at 100.

I've shot 10" steel out to 450 yards fairly easily.



I think the results you're getting are either sight related (scope, no magnification, iron sights, etc), trigger pull related, or practice related.


Well, two different shooters and about the same result so I'm going to have to question the scope which was on loan for 2+ years. It WAS sub-moa on the borrowers DPMS .308 w/ my home rolled 168 FGMM copy.

RRA lower w/ stock trigger, which sucks. But with gas guns I always try and make a conscious effort to follow through identically. After each shot, I heard the "click" that they taught us in BT on a function check. I used to shoot irons pretty evenly with a scope but didn't try any. If I go again, I'll bring my backups.

Also wondering about your cleaning regimen. Not the corrosive issue. The owner ran a tea kettle full of boiling water through the barrel and gas block w/ everything else sitting in the bottom of the kitchen sink. I was told that was followed with Shooter's Choice, either Sweets or Barnes copper remover and finally CLP. Since the ammo is considered "copper washed" I'm wondering if that's not too wise to strip it all out. I'm thinking the water to get rid of the salt, then either Hoppes 9 or CLP.

I know how much of an improvement a Geissele would be, glad to hear they work with these primers. I know I had no problems back when w/ a DPMS .22LR upper.

Link Posted: 12/12/2011 3:23:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike047:
Well, two different shooters and about the same result so I'm going to have to question the scope which was on loan for 2+ years. It WAS sub-moa on the borrowers DPMS .308 w/ my home rolled 168 FGMM copy.

RRA lower w/ stock trigger, which sucks. But with gas guns I always try and make a conscious effort to follow through identically. After each shot, I heard the "click" that they taught us in BT on a function check. I used to shoot irons pretty evenly with a scope but didn't try any. If I go again, I'll bring my backups.

Also wondering about your cleaning regimen. Not the corrosive issue. The owner ran a tea kettle full of boiling water through the barrel and gas block w/ everything else sitting in the bottom of the kitchen sink. I was told that was followed with Shooter's Choice, either Sweets or Barnes copper remover and finally CLP. Since the ammo is considered "copper washed" I'm wondering if that's not too wise to strip it all out. I'm thinking the water to get rid of the salt, then either Hoppes 9 or CLP.

I know how much of an improvement a Geissele would be, glad to hear they work with these primers. I know I had no problems back when w/ a DPMS .22LR upper.


I just use m pro 7 cleaner.... the whole hot/boiling water thing is really unnecessary. the parts are all either melonited or ion bonded so even if you didn't do anything they wouldn't have significant rust (if any) on them. Huldra arms (a relabeled adams arms 5.45) did a test on their 5.45 through like 4400 rounds over weeks with no cleaning at all, infact they ran it dry. They didn't have any rust or corrosion.

If you're using water then I would definitely follow up with something that will get into all the crevices. It honestly sounds like your friend is going crazy with cleaning. If you spend more than 2-3 minutes (literally) cleaning it then you're doing it all wrong.

I would say that if you put a different muzzle device on it that isn't melonited then you want to make sure you clean it extra well as the corrosive salts will make it rust in short order.

if it shoots that bad with everything checked out in a position that is stable with a shooter who can shoot 1moa or better on with a similar trigger pull, you may want to contact adams because it should be more accurate.
Link Posted: 12/12/2011 4:30:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_h:
Originally Posted By finishman2000:
i have two of the upper in 5.45. all i shoot is russian surplus and get between 3-4" groups at 100yrds. good enough for me.


scoped or irons?

rested or offhand?


both. i'm not a benchrest, trying to make one hole kinda shooter.
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 7:29:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Adams Arms 5.45 Upper with 30+ year old Russian Surplus from a seated position with a sand bag (not a bench rest).

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/162/545100ydnov.jpg

Granted that is with a SSA-E trigger but before the trigger I was getting between .8-1.5" groups at 100.

I've shot 10" steel out to 450 yards fairly easily.



I think the results you're getting are either sight related (scope, no magnification, iron sights, etc), trigger pull related, or practice related.


what buffer tube, spring , & buffer are you using ? thanks
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 4:05:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zulthor:
Originally Posted By mike047:
Well, two different shooters and about the same result so I'm going to have to question the scope which was on loan for 2+ years. It WAS sub-moa on the borrowers DPMS .308 w/ my home rolled 168 FGMM copy.

RRA lower w/ stock trigger, which sucks. But with gas guns I always try and make a conscious effort to follow through identically. After each shot, I heard the "click" that they taught us in BT on a function check. I used to shoot irons pretty evenly with a scope but didn't try any. If I go again, I'll bring my backups.

Also wondering about your cleaning regimen. Not the corrosive issue. The owner ran a tea kettle full of boiling water through the barrel and gas block w/ everything else sitting in the bottom of the kitchen sink. I was told that was followed with Shooter's Choice, either Sweets or Barnes copper remover and finally CLP. Since the ammo is considered "copper washed" I'm wondering if that's not too wise to strip it all out. I'm thinking the water to get rid of the salt, then either Hoppes 9 or CLP.

I know how much of an improvement a Geissele would be, glad to hear they work with these primers. I know I had no problems back when w/ a DPMS .22LR upper.


I just use m pro 7 cleaner.... the whole hot/boiling water thing is really unnecessary. the parts are all either melonited or ion bonded so even if you didn't do anything they wouldn't have significant rust (if any) on them. Huldra arms (a relabeled adams arms 5.45) did a test on their 5.45 through like 4400 rounds over weeks with no cleaning at all, infact they ran it dry. They didn't have any rust or corrosion.

If you're using water then I would definitely follow up with something that will get into all the crevices. It honestly sounds like your friend is going crazy with cleaning. If you spend more than 2-3 minutes (literally) cleaning it then you're doing it all wrong.

I would say that if you put a different muzzle device on it that isn't melonited then you want to make sure you clean it extra well as the corrosive salts will make it rust in short order.

if it shoots that bad with everything checked out in a position that is stable with a shooter who can shoot 1moa or better on with a similar trigger pull, you may want to contact adams because it should be more accurate.


I got a chance to shoot the upper again this weekend. I had pointed my friend to this forum and your advice. First off, after our last range session he let the rifle sit a couple of days before he cleaned it. He didn't disassemble the gas piston. So, first shot the action doesn't cycle, and second, and third... Pull the gas piston out, it's now one piece as the drive rod and gas plug assy. have rusted together. Tapped the GPA against the side of the bench until it came free. Then applied Amsoil off the dipstick of my Mustang, problem solved, LOL. I'm not sure if it's simply living in FL, how much residual water from him, etc. Accuracy was about the same, then I peeped the crown through the A2 hider and it looks pretty gunked up from patching from the chamber. Going to have him clean that up and try again. Talked to a guy w/ a SKS that shoots corrosive and he said he can see rust if he leaves it very long. The area we live in is notorious for rusting out the roof on any and every painted, galvanized, toolshed. There's that much salt in the air. I guess if you can afford to live on the beach here, you just lease your Mercedes...
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 5:18:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike047:I got a chance to shoot the upper again this weekend. I had pointed my friend to this forum and your advice. First off, after our last range session he let the rifle sit a couple of days before he cleaned it. He didn't disassemble the gas piston. So, first shot the action doesn't cycle, and second, and third... Pull the gas piston out, it's now one piece as the drive rod and gas plug assy. have rusted together. Tapped the GPA against the side of the bench until it came free. Then applied Amsoil off the dipstick of my Mustang, problem solved, LOL. I'm not sure if it's simply living in FL, how much residual water from him, etc. Accuracy was about the same, then I peeped the crown through the A2 hider and it looks pretty gunked up from patching from the chamber. Going to have him clean that up and try again. Talked to a guy w/ a SKS that shoots corrosive and he said he can see rust if he leaves it very long. The area we live in is notorious for rusting out the roof on any and every painted, galvanized, toolshed. There's that much salt in the air. I guess if you can afford to live on the beach here, you just lease your Mercedes...


Wow, sounds like he may need to do the hot water thing or one technique I heard about (although I haven't tried it), was spraying water then spraying wd-40 then using compressed air to make sure it gets pushed into all the nooks and crannies.

How does the rifling look? Did the rifling have rust? I almost wonder if the melonite finish was properly done or if you got a bad one.... you may want to contact adams especially if it shot like that from day one.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:49:19 PM EDT
I see no rust within the barrel on this upper. It does seem like he needs to rinse it better if he's using the water though. I pulled the A2 off to get a better look at the crown, doesn't look like it has much of one which might explain some things. Pretty sure the crush washer was on backwards too. I'm going to offer to be middle man and see if he wants another friend of mine to cut a new crown or if he just wants to send it back to AA. I'm sure they'd make it right if they find a problem. I think he plans on putting some Wolf through it before he does anything.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 4:33:37 PM EDT
Wow, if you're shooting corrosive surplus ammo you really should clean it immediately after every session, he didn't pull the gas piston out either during his cleaning????? WTF, what did he clean????? Yea 5.45 is cheap ammo, but you have to pay the price somewhere..... Which means he shouldn't be lazy, clean it right after use.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:12:11 PM EDT
I could be mistaken on his last cleaning session. I know he still uses the tea kettle to dissolve the salt, I just think he waited either too long or he didn't CLP or oil his stuff when he put it back together. If you think about it and pour water down your barrel from the bottom of the upper, some should go into the port and flush into the GPA of this upper if it's not completely disassembled. So it's possible some residual salt rinsed into that area, stayed moist and formed rust.

I know I've read on some forum about someone who took either one of these or the S&W to a training class and put it away for a long time, like a month. Had rust issues, like the action was locked. Once he got it open and cleaned up the chamber it functioned. IMO that's the advantage to this system over the S&W, it's not blowing the corrosive salt back into the BCA. I still believe a lot of it has to do with this area. Maybe in a less salty, humid environment it wouldn't be so bad. It also makes me wonder what the Cubans do with all their stuff?

I might just suggest that the next time we go, we just flush the barrel (while it's still hot) w/ some water at the range and run some dry patches through it. I've also read elsewhere that the original formula of Hoppes 9 was such that it would neutralize corrosive salts but there's a great debate on that as well. It does remove carbon well enough so I think if my bud picks some up he ought to try that and speed things up or tell him to look for the M-Pro 7.
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